1st CFL Grow....here we go

rambler420

Well-Known Member
Whelp.....I'm digging in. I bought some CFLs, got my pots, my dirt and my seeds. This is going to be my first attempt at an indoor grow. Last spring, I popped some seeds in some planters outside. Surprisingly, they sprouted, so I immediately got on here to find out what to do. Shockingly, I was successful and had two plants go through to harvest. So.......I'm going to try this again, but since it's winter, I obviously can't do outdoor again, so....the indoor fiasco begins.

I did a little test. Last week, I put six seeds in a wet paper towel, using the two-plate method and two seeds directly in moist soil. I wanted to see which was faster. The next day, three of the six paper towel seeds had sprouted their root and I put them in the post. The other three took a little longer and were planted yesterday. Low and behold, the seeds put directly in the dirt broke through the dirt first, but the paper towel seeds broke through later that day.

Yesterday, 10/27/08, 5 of my 8 seeds became seedlings. Yeah, I'm a proud mama.

They're bag seed and I have no idea what they are, but any weed is better than no weed.

Currently I have two 42w CFLs and three 23w CFLs. I plan on getting a few more lights since I didn't really think all would germinate. I wasn't prepared with enough lights.

Since I really have no idea what I'm doing, I'm hoping you fine folks will steer me in the right direction if I'm messing up. Please feel free to chime in and give me opinions, criticism, or props. I need all the guidance I can get.

Pictures to follow.

wish me luck
 

rambler420

Well-Known Member
Ok...first question.

How long do you indoor growers keep your plant in veg before you change it over to flowering? I'm used to outdoors and the sun making that decision for me.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
How much light is needed for growing?
Depends on the size of plant you are trying to grow. I'll try to answer this "in general" instead of being specific to one size plant. Light seen and perceived with the human eye is measured in Lumens. There is an ideal amount of lumens for growing and a minimum amount of required lumens. The very minimum amount of light required for smaller sized plants grown is around 3000 lumens per square foot. Let me put emphasis on "minimum amount" of light. However, that's not 100% exactly accurate, since although you may have a 10,000 lumen light, the amount of light that reaches the plant varies with the distance between the light and plants, and the reflectivity of the grow area. The ideal amount is somewhere around 7000-10,000 lumens per square foot for average sized plants. As long as the plants do not show burn, as much light can be used as you want to use. (Note, the sun produces about 10,000 lumens per square foot, on a sunny mid summer day).

Determining lumens for your grow area:
First determine the square footage of your area (example in a 4 foot by 4 foot area, there is 16 square feet, 2 by 2 feet is 4 Sq ft. ) If you have a 1000 Watt High Pressure Sodium Light Bulb, that produces approximately 107,000 lumens. Divide this by 16 (your square footage) 107,000 divided by 16 = 6687 lumens per square foot. So just divide the total amount of Lumens, by the total amount of square feet, and that's your lumens per square foot.

How far away from my plants do the lights go?
The lights in your grow room should be as close as possible to the plants without burning them. There is no such thing as too much light, unless there is overly sufficient heat to dry out and burn the leaves. A good rule is to put your hand under the light, if its too hot for your hand, chances are that the plants will be too hot too, so move the light up until your hand feels more comfortable. For seedlings or sprouts, I keep them a little further away from the light, because they are very susceptible to burning and drying out, at these young stages.

How do I decide which lights to use?
Efficiency is very important when choosing a type of light. The wattage is not the most important thing, different types of light produce different amounts of lumens per watt. For example, a 300 watt incandescent will produce about 5100 lumens. (not that you can grow with incandescent bulbs) While a 300 watt Metal Halide (just an example, they do not come in 300 watts), will produce 27,000 lumens. Obviously far more efficient for growing, while still using the same amount of electricity.

Approximate light production:
Incandescents: 17 lumens/watt
Mercury vapor: 45-50 lumens/watt
Fluorescents: 60-70 lumens/watt
Metal halide: 90 lumens/watt
High pressure sodium: 107 lumens/watt


Incandescent lights: Incandescent bulbs are the most popular type of lights in the world. They may come advertised as incandescent, tungsten, quartz, halogen, or simply standard. The important thing about incandescent bulbs when it come to growing is simply this: they suck. Using incandescent bulbs to grow plants is like trying to flag down the Space Challenger with a burnt out match! You can do it, but it won't work. There are some incandescents which are sold as "grow lights." They usually have a blue coating and usually come in 60W and 120W sizes. While they may seem like a good choice to new growers, they are next to useless; they produce some light at a usable spectrum, but only have about a 5% efficiency and generate more heat than usable light. Most of us have these in our homes right now. Don't use them for growing, instead opt for a Compact Fluorescent, CFL, as a cheaper but more efficient alternative.

Fluorescent lights: Fluorescents are far more useful than incandescents. They are efficient enough, and much less expensive than HID (High Intensity Discharge) lights. Compact fluorescent tubes, (commonly called CFLs) are popular with growers because of their good output to size ratio. Compared to standard 4 foot tubes, CFLs are smaller, more easily moved, and more can fit into a given small area. CFLs are good for small grows on a tight budget, and for novice growers, since they do not require any special sort of wiring or understanding of the necessary bulbs for a given fixture, and the small wattage ones (23, 42 and 65) are very widely available. Fluorescent lights come in many different Kelvin (spectrum or color) ratings; often the spectrums are labeled on packaging as being 'cool white' or 'warm white.' Cool white is more blue, and is good for the vegetative stages of growth. The bulbs are ultra white. Warm white light is more reddish in spectrum, and is best for the flowering stage. The bulbs are almost cream colored.

Color rating - Measured in Kelvin (K). The higher the number, the more bluish the light. 4000K-7000K is mostly on the blue side of the spectrum for Vegging or GROWING, while 3000K and under goes from a white spectrum, to a redder spectrum and is best for BLOOMING or FLOWERING.


High Intensity Discharge (HID) Lighting Systems:

Mercury Vapor (MV)
Mercury vapor lights are not the most efficient light for growing. They are very bright, and relatively cheap. They do emit light at the wavelengths necessary to support your plants growth, but not nearly as good as a MH or HPS light. Much of the light emitted by MV lights is bluish-white. Street lighting is what most MV lighting is used for.

Metal Halide (MH)
Metal halide lighting systems are optimal for use in the vegetative phase of growing. They emit mostly blue light, which encourages vigorous growth of foliage. They are very efficient, but can get rather expensive to start with; fluorescents may seem more appealing because of their lower price, and they are not much different when compared on a lumen-to-lumen cost level. These lights can be used through-out the grow, but leave a lot to be desired in the BLOOM stage.

High Pressure Sodium (HPS)
High pressure sodium lights emit mostly orange, yellow, and red spectrum light, which is perfect for the flowering stage of the plants growth. They are (in my opinion) the most efficient type of light available for any application if you are not on a budget and can vent the grow area for heat. HPS lights can be used through-out the entire grow. They produce more dense and usually larger flowers or fruit than any other light. HPS lights are generally a little more expensive than MH systems of similar wattage. They are more commonly used by experienced commercial growers because of their ability to produce tighter denser flowers, higher lumen-output-per-watt, and will produce from start to finish.

Just like everything else, available grow lights are evolving. Remember how the sun produces 10,000 lumens per square foot in the mid-summer. Well, today there are CFLs that can actually duplicate those lumens. If you can not grow under the sun, then bring the sun inside. Yes, you can have 20,000 lumens covering the entire grow space with the new 105 watt per bulb CFLs. Three of these bulbs in the proper reflector actually yields 20,000 lumens.
 

rambler420

Well-Known Member
I've already read all that.

How long do you guys usually veg before changing over to 12/12 to flower?
 

captain792000

New Member
you can veg as long as you want...it also depends on how big of a yeild you want...... i let mine grow about 20 in tall which took me nearly 2 months.... but its really a personal preferance and depends on how patient one is....good luck... ill be following this.... i would at least let them get 15 inches or so before putting them into flower...but remember.. they double in length while flowering so it also depends on how much room you have....
 

rambler420

Well-Known Member
I have a whole room to work with, so size isn't an issue.

Will post pics as soon as find my camera/computer cable. doh!
 

rambler420

Well-Known Member
I ended up moving my setup to the closet to make the boyfriend happy. He was not too crazy about a grow room idea.

So....I took over the closet.

The three late bloomers have not broken through the dirt. I'm going to give them one more day and I'm going to give up on those three.

BUT....I have 5 babies that are thriving and happy. They're between 1.5" - 2" tall.

Here's the new closet setup. How am I doing? Will this closet work or do I need to add more reflective stuff?
 

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rambler420

Well-Known Member
So we're a few days in now. I ended up trashing the three seeds that never sprouted, so I have five seedlings now.

I've been measuring them everyday. For the first few days they were growing about 1/4"-1/2" per day. I noticed between yesterday and today, though, the growing has slowed down. Some only grew 1/8 of an inch, some didn't grow at all. They are starting to sprout their second set of leaves, though. They all look healthy. Attached is a somewhat close-up and an overall shot of all five. They're all between 2 3/4" and 3 1/2" tall now.

Meet plants 1-5
 

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rambler420

Well-Known Member
Any suggestions I could offer, you probably already read.
considering your rep and post count, I'm sure I could learn from you. Please feel free to offer suggestions.

I apologize if my post above to you seemed snippy. I'd just spent days and days and days learning about lumens, wattages and everything CFL related. I've overdosed on CFL info.

I've read that with lights, you put them as close to the plant as you can without burning them. My lights don't put off that much heat. Should I move them closer to the plants?
 

captain792000

New Member
as long as their not touching...the closer the better....just my opinion...i have mine about 2 inches away the wole way around her....
 

rambler420

Well-Known Member
Okay. I did that yesterday upon your suggestions. I swear every morning when I open the door and go in, I can hear the plants greet me. :)

So far, plant 1 has the biggest/most leaves. Plant 4 is the tallest.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
considering your rep and post count, I'm sure I could learn from you. Please feel free to offer suggestions.

I apologize if my post above to you seemed snippy. I'd just spent days and days and days learning about lumens, wattages and everything CFL related. I've overdosed on CFL info.

I've read that with lights, you put them as close to the plant as you can without burning them. My lights don't put off that much heat. Should I move them closer to the plants?
I put mine one to one and half inches away, even the 105 watt bulbs.
 

rambler420

Well-Known Member
And is it true that the further away the light, the more the plant will stretch to try to reach it? What's the difference between stretching and "encouraging growth"? Some of my plants are taller than the others and the lights are all about the same distance away.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
Some growers detest and hate STRETCHING, because they have limited space for HEIGHT.
I love STRETCHING. I get my lights two inches away, get the plants used to it, then move the lights 18 inches away, for one full day, then they grow several inches taller that same day, then I put the lights back 1-1/2 to two inches away. It makes space inbetween the nodes to get more light in to bud spaces.
 

captain792000

New Member
Some growers detest and hate STRETCHING, because they have limited space for HEIGHT.
I love STRETCHING. I get my lights two inches away, get the plants used to it, then move the lights 18 inches away, for one full day, then they grow several inches taller that same day, then I put the lights back 1-1/2 to two inches away. It makes space inbetween the nodes to get more light in to bud spaces.
hmmm..that sounds like a good idea...ill have to try that my next grow...
 

rambler420

Well-Known Member
Update:

The babies are between 2 3/4" tall and 3 3/8" tall. Some are growing faster than others. I haven't named them yet, and won't until I remove the males. Until then, they're numbered Plants 1 - 5.

4 is really tall and lanky and 1 and 2 are short and full. They're all healthy (knock on wood) but I'm just surprised at the difference between them.

They're all bagseed, but I'm trying to find out how early you can tell if they're indica or sativa.

Pictures attached. I moved the lights out of the way to take a picture, so don't rag me on how far away they are. (:))

Any ideas, or is it too soon to tell?
 

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