1st Grow Drip/Eb - Progress Evolution Log

Well my name is Lebdog (often Lebster or some Leb Variant). I have gotten in to several different high level hobbies and would like to document my endeavors to grasp some mastery of hydroponics. I love riding motorcycles, mountain climbing and play bass in 2 great bands which play out frequently. After learning to fly remote control airplanes and seeing how valuable a blog system can be to someone seeking information, I hope to be able to offer my mistakes and hopefully triumphs as well for all to see. I appreciate all the knowledge I have gained from others as I combed this site for (literally) days total in search of the information which may assist me in my success.

My setup is a 8'x6' area build within a 12'x10' room. I used 2x4's for strength, so I can actually walk within the grow area if necessary (I have already done this several times).
I have two 4'x4' grow tanks with a 25 gallon reservoir for each grow tank.
The main light is an HPS1000 with an air cooled reflector.
I have a portable A/C in the room set at 71 degrees.
Under the grow tanks is my vegetation area with two T5's currently, but will get another 2 in a few weeks.
I have read about the usage of LED and since I am a stage designer also, implemented a basic LED (blue/red light) setup which I have used at night during the current veg. to provide ultraviolet spectrum light (similar to the moon is my theory).

I will add my pictures of the build now and then comment on what I did why as the beatings begin...

lebdog said:

I will add my pictures of the build now and then comment on what I did why as the beatings begin...

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You will notice one grow tray is 10" higher than the other. This was done out of necessity to accommodate two 4x4' tray in the 8'x6' room. I got the specs for the trays online and build the room first (pretty crummy mistake) the measurements were for the inside dimensions of the tray and so it wouldn't fit unless staggered. I plan to open the room if necessary as plants grow to accomidate this later (got hands full for now).

Currently since it's cool and the plants are in early veg, my HPS1000 is fed by cool (Goblin) filtered air which is shot outside my 2nd story window. I plan to close this light vent system and filter the grow rooms air outside separately during flowering.

I have 6 Headband 707, 6 Green Crack and 6 Dog Town OG clones about 1 week in to veg. for the Headband and GC and a few days for the Dog Town OG. I am considering upping the plant count from 9 per tray to 12 or even 16 since I can grow that high anyways.

I am using General Hydroponics FloraMicro and FloraGrow and have a TRI METER showing 6.2 pH (which I try to keep between 5.8 and 6.2), 600 for PPM and 71 degrees for the reservoir temperature.

I was thinking about the natural aspect of the veg. and flower cycles and logically arrived that there's not actually complete darkness outdoors. Providing a little blue light at night may simulate the moonlight an outdoor weed would see. As with music sometimes my logic may actually be worthless here, the last photo in my first post shows the stage lights I implemented in their blue mode.

I'd be interested to know what other's think of my first attempt at hydro logic... How do you feel about using these stage LED's in green for night work (just like green night led lights people use)?

It seemed that almost instantly upon waking for the first LED blue sleep the plants had more green in them. Could have been timing of roots taking...

Do you think Blue or Purple would work best (purple pictured here)?

Here are the plants in order as pictured:

-Headband 707 #1
Appear very healthy to me, topped them 3 days ago
-Headband 707 #2
Appear very healthy to me, topped 3 days ago also
-Green Crack
Appear very healthy to me, topped 3 days ago also
-Dog Town OG (the clones were very stressed at best, almost dead IMYO)
I kept the Dog Town under T5's for four days until the leafs came back to life.
The Dog Town has beautiful purple stems unlike the others. I don't like getting clones with leafs cut before I get them, just 'cause they probably don't cut healthy ones.
After reading, I am also suspect of how these Dog Town clones may have been taken from a near flower mother (3 leaf thing)? I don't know from experience though.

The plants are getting drip water 4x (9AM, 1PM, 5PM & Midnight) with lights on only at 15 minutes each on 18/24. The plants are in 4" Delta cubes in the hydroton. The tanks are setup to eb & flow also, but the roots aren't long enough yet IMYO and again I don't know squat.

I think that if I wanted to EB these tanks, I would have go with smaller pots and lower the Delta's. Is there anything someone could advice me here?

Hey Lebdog, nice journal.
Remember KISS - keep it simple stoner. We over complicate things sometimes.

I would flood them now. I use RW Hugo cubes, 6 inchers. Flood to just below where your roots are and you ought to be fine.

looks good man. i look forward to keeping up with this one and to see how the leds play out

orzz said:

I would flood them now. I use RW Hugo cubes, 6 inchers. Flood to just below where your roots are and you ought to be fine.

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I only put a Hugo in a potential mother. Next time I will lower the location of the rock wool or use the Hugo. I appreciate the advice, I know I kinda screwed up, but will this effect yield if I begin to flood during flower where the roots are guaranteed in the wet. I am afraid of screwing with the roots now if I lower the existing rock wool cubed in the pots?

Well in total disregard of the KISS moniker, I kept reading the various articles on training or not, topping or not, vertical grows and so on and of couse hit SOG, where I remember a High Times cover at least ten years ago with a SOG on the cover and didn't even know what it was other than beautiful and tasty looking.

After researching the best way to use my current light (and potential for additions), I decided to undertake an attempt at the ScrOG grow and training method. I went to the hardware store looking for the best training screen I could find and came across something that looks good for me. Chicken wire looked too small and to prone to cutting the plant. See attached image of before and after trimming to my size. I will have 4 screens total, 2 over each 4x4 tray and cut the screens to 22x46. Later I will surround them in 1x2" wood and hopefully making them a little small will leave a little room for me to work around them (yes I can get to the back of the grow room 6-8")...

Next, actually first I went to the SG Valley met this guy from Craigslist who sold me a pretty nice water filtration system for $100 brand new (again pictured). This should sweeten the buds a bit and I will feel good knowing I am using it.

Last night I tied over the older flowers and plan to being the ScrOG in a week or so... The plants will let me know when they are ready (and hopefully someone here at RIU).

your plants are to close for a scrog. Scrogs are better for smaller spaces where you have less height room to work with. usually you want each plant to have around 1cft of mesh for itself to fill up. I dont understand why you didnt go with a SOG? it would be much more effective for your set up i believe, and since you have two separate trays, you could stagger your harvest. It might not make a perpetual grow but i feel if you get the system down and do it right and are serious about this then a SOG would ultimately yield more for you and would be easier to maintain than a scrog.

thats just my 2cents though

Nice score on the RO unit Lebdog.

I don't know about the metal screen. I use plastic netting and wonder how the metal screen will work. I would worry about not being able to bend the plants because there looks to be no give with the metal. The plastic screen can be manipulated easier IMO.

The roots of my ladies have grown out the bottom of the RW, through the coco mat and are visible in the tray. I flood the trays 4 times a day for 15 minutes. They are lovin' it. I have to top off the rez every 2 to 3 days.

Good luck

b1izzard said:

I dont understand why you didnt go with a SOG?

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I am looking at the SOG v. ScrOG and will give some more attention in this direction before implementing anything further than the basic tie downs. I initially started reading the main SOG posts but after 50 or so pages of pissing match like crap I opted off the thread... It really get's annoying to me that these threads can fill up with as much rant like innuendo, as actual information if it gets to that point. These people who rant must really like the virtual shield the internet offers, I think otherwise they may get knocked out in the same situation(s). Thanks for the input and I will continue to research.

Watching the grass grow offers plenty of this idle time best spent researching currently in my case...

i mean its completely up to your as its your grow. Scrog can have fantastic result when done well. I just thought it sounded like you planned on filling up your tables with plants, which would not leave much room for each plant in the scrog. Thats why i was thinking SOG for you. But no one knows your setup better than you and so no one can figure out the best use for it better than you can

b1izzard said:

i mean its completely up to your as its your grow. Scrog can have fantastic result when done well. I just thought it sounded like you planned on filling up your tables with plants, which would not leave much room for each plant in the scrog. Thats why i was thinking SOG for you. But no one knows your setup better than you and so no one can figure out the best use for it better than you can

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Please, I have a direct tone often; but welcome your advice and thank you for the input. I think that I will keep the plants as they are (9 & 9) per tray with this run and that's why I am going toward the ScrOG. Next time I will have done enough research and should prepare better. I am worried about the metal also, but think that because I am so attentive right now, may be able to avert too much issue, but was looking for this same hole spacing plastic and didn't get too close at home depot... Thanks again for the input! I don't know much and appreciate any help...

I had initially made a trial to see which topping method would work better, actually cutting the tops v. pinching the new tops. I made this test in 6 plants from 2 different strains. I topped 3 of 1 strain then pinched the remaining 3 from that strain. After a week plus of growth, I have noted the following per technique:
Pinching-
The plants stem dramatically increased in diameter as well as multiple new branches formed all other the plants. On the bad side, the pinched tops grew crunched looking with holes developing later in the week.
Cutting-
The plants stems didn't (notably) increase in diameter, but multiple new branches formed. The cut tops are lost but after a week plus the new cut tops growth are already spawning their new branches. There isn't a bad side I can see (because the tops aren't there at all)

My idea is that I would really want to cut out the pinched tops as they are so ugly and spotted with holes. I would love any comments about this situation from experience. I don't think I will ever pinch again, but the new growth and thick stems are noticeable.

All my plants are now being trained in prep. for the ScrOG. I made four 44"x22" and will use 2 screens per 4'x4' grow tray. My idea is that splitting the screens will make harvest easier than dealing with a single large screen. I will attached updated pictures in the next post to follow.

The first picture is the 46" Tray (potential plant height before hitting the 10" HPS1000 heat/light ceiling (I have the light cooled from an A/C actually and that's why I can get pretty close to the light - or so I believe anyways). I won't test that wishful thinking and plan to use the ScrOG method keep further distance from the lights (keeping the plants well below the ceiling).

My tray on the left has a 36" growth ceiling, but isn't pictured in these shots.

The second shot a poor i-phone shot of a pinched top
(crunched, pitted leaves, strong stem and great new growth)

The third shot is the full plant.
(Thick stem and many new growths)

The fourth shot is a cut top
(clean and great healthy new growth everywhere)

The fifth shot is that full plant.
(a bad illustration of stem strength because this plant happens to be the only cut plant with a thick stem).

Well, 2 things of note to report.

1st, the Dog Town clones had mites (I wonder if that's why they were sickly when I got them). The clinic I got them from was dirty itself (relative to others I go to), and the people working at the clinic lacked a certain discretion.

2nd, it appears that having a climate of 70 degrees +/- in my grow room from day 1 killed many mites and stopped all from spreading (so far as I could find).

I cut away all (if any remaining) mite infected original leaves (3-4 per plant). All new growth since bringing the clones in to my grow room was free of mites (as I have seen so far).

I am very puzzled with nuts as my plants certainly appear to like less than more... The GH company instructions seem to be way off (too high) and I could use some advice from experience with this.

Attached are the updated pics...

Hey Lebdog .... bummer to hear about the mites - I hope that you got them all. I have dealt with mites once (knock on wood) and it wasn't pretty. It was only one outdoor plant but wound up hacking it down. Hope yours is a happy ending.

The ladies in the pics are looking good!

Well, it's 3 weeks in to flowering and things are looking OK. I had changed the plants from Drip to Eb and they responded quite poorly with drooping & curling leaves. I noticed roots growing out the bottom of the plant pots and still leaves drooped .

After about 4 days of drooping, I added the drip in combination to the Eb system to get the upper roots wet. Right now, I Eb 3x in 12 hrs and drip 2x daily. The drip is first and last daily. This brought the plants back to life within a few days.

I upped my nuts when I switched to the Eb and this also may have contributed to the plants drooping. I am really trying not to over water, but with the droop, I had to drip.

Basically when I insert my Grodan 4x4's in the 3 gallon pots, I think I placed them too high to wick up water in Eb mode. Next time I will make sure the 4x4's are lower in the pots to effectively Eb. Advice here welcome?

The nuts are at 1200 and Ph 5.8-6.1 with 71 degree reservoir fluid.
The room is about 73 degrees high and 71 degrees low which really helped with the mites, I sprayed nothing and only cut infected leaves off and they appear gone (I scoped this also with no mites remaining to be seen).

So pictured are the plants as they sit today basically happy (most unresponsive droopy leaves cut away now). They are getting nice flowers now. Rather than the SCroG, I am gonna hang my screens above the plants on the ceiling and connect Yo Yo's to support the plants as they gain mass (a buddie's good idea thanks).

Thanks to all for their posts and assistance. I think I am about 5-6 weeks away from harvest now...

The ladies are looking better than they did in your last pics.

I just leave them in the RW cubes with a piece of netting (next time will use 2 pieces at differrent heights)and run ties from the roof framing to hold them up if needed. Sort of like your yoyos. I also cut a piece of cocomat to place the RW Hugos on.