a guide for anyone who is unhappy with their germ rates when using rockwool

diowk

Active Member
I used to have a lot of trouble starting seeds in rockwool successfully. I ended up finding my own method after experiencing bad germ rates with all conventional methods. I've tried everything I could possibly think of to see what works best and I've landed on this method. Now I get 100% germination every time with good seeds and theyre always very healthy and happy. Heres what I've learned:

1. DONT USE THE PAPER TOWEL METHOD! This is the dumbest technique that everyone seems to be doing. It DOES NOT help the seed germinate. It only tells you which seeds are viable so you dont have to wait for a bunk seed thats never going to sprout. The other reason for doing this is because the holes in rockwool cubes are too deep for seeds so by having a 1/4"-1/2" taproot before they go into the rockwool, the seeds wont damp off since they are close to the surface and not buried way to deep. The problem is that you need to be very precise, very delicate, and use completely sterile tweezers or something to get them in without risking damaging the vulnerable tap root and risk lowering your success rate. For most people however, this will only result in lower germination rates and its COMPLETELY unnecessary using this method. Just have patience, when 9 pop and 1 doesnt, you know its a bunk seed... and rockwool is cheap. Ask yourself what seems like a better medium: something designed for rooting plants or something designed for wiping counters....

2. Research your breeder's website and on the seed pack for germination instructions. Many breeders will tell you what works best for their seeds and sometimes contain useful information such as the proper EC for germination and whether or not they should be soaked prior to germinating.

3. Pre-soaking your seeds is a technique that should only be used with older seeds (more than 2 years) and when breeders advise it but its totally unnecessary for fresh healthy seeds. Presoaking healthy seeds is riskier than not doing so.

---------------------------
On to the actual method
---------------------------

1. Presoak cubes in non-chlorinated water at a ph of 5.5 for an hour. (you dont need to soak them overnight)

2. Remove cubes from the 5.5ph water and give them a quick dunk or watering with water at a ph of 5.8 and veg nutes at a ppm of 200-300 (you can use a little superthrive or something if you want just make sure the directions say its okay for seedlings and use LESS than what they recommend for seedlings. Youll still get benefits from too little but too much will cause major problems. And they will do just fine with plain water so theres no such thing as too little really but the closer you get it to the sweet spot, the faster and stronger your seedlings will grow. Ive had best results with a ppm of 300 or a little less.

3.*this step is key to great germ rates and Ive never seen it mentioned anywhere else*- scrape a fluffy piece of rockwool off the side of your cube and place it in the hole. This will allow you to control the depth at which you plant your seed and is why we dont need to use the paper towel method. Make sure your not packing it in there, you just want it to be able to keep the seed from falling.

4. Pinch the rockwool BEFORE you put the seed in, this gives you more control on the seed depth since you could easily push the seed down by doing this step afterwards. It also makes planting a lot quicker and easier once you start droppin seeds. The proper way to pinch rockwool is by using your forefinger and your thumb to SCRAPE (your not actually pinching it) the rockwool from corner to corner in and X pattern. Just keep scraping until the hole is closed and the rockwool around the hole feels loose and fluffy. Now take something pointy and find that hole again but only open it up enough so you can see where it is when you go to put the seed in. Now the hole has been filled loosely with fluffy rockwool capable of supporting the seed, the rockwool on top is also fluffy and loose, the hole is just large enough to be visible, and planting will actually feel more like planting in soil than in rockwool and your seeds will be much happier too.

5. Place seed in pointy side down the same way you would in soil. About 1.5x the length of the seed. (If its too deep, it wont srpout. If its not deep enough, the taproot will grow above the rockwool and youll have to push it back down which you CAN do no problem, but it stresses it out and will slow it down a bit. This is the only part that takes a little practice. If I had to choose between too deep or too shallow I would choose too shallow every time. Keep that in mind if you dont know what your doing. Now "pinch" or scrape the rockwool back over the seed to close it up again. This will be quick and easy since its been closed once already and it wont move the seed.

6. Place in a propagator (humidity dome) with a thin layer of moistened perlite. Use a heat mat underneath and you MUST USE A THERMOSTAT!!! PLACE THE PROBE INSIDE THE HOLE OF AN EXTRA ROCKWOOL CUBE you have soaked with the others but havent scraped or planted in obviously. Set thermostat to 69 degrees. Mist everything. Keep in total darkness untill they srpout. This is important. Do dont put them directly under a light. Keep vents of propagator closed until the first sprout then slowly open them every day to get them used to a lower humidity gradually and so they dont damp off. Do it too fast and the seedlings will be in lower than optimal humidity which wont really hurt them just slow them down a bit but do it too slow and they will damp off and this is going to cause a sick seedling. They will look droopy and have stunted growth. As soon as you give them air they will perk up in a matter of hours.

If I deviate from this method in any way I will lose seeds but if I do all these things just as I have laid out I get 100% germination every time with good seeds.

Hope this helps!
 

machead

Well-Known Member
cheers will give it a try as last few batches my rates have been very low on the seed cracking front!
 

JohnnySocko

Active Member
...I've said this for a while...not sure about squeezing rock wool (needs the air space?) ...so one modification I do is snip a piece of rockwool or rapid rooter into the hole, both below and/or over the seed...
also I really don't pH adjust (9.1 locally); my guess is if the seed wants to live it won't bitch about the water being pH'd wrong...ha ha
 

gtran

Active Member
Germinating in a paper towels is by far the best technique ive tested in germinating seeds. After recently placing 5 seeds in paper towls, rock wool cubes, paper towel with plastic bags covering it, and just good old ph balanced water. You couldn't be more wrong about paper towels only showing you which ones are "viable" to root. When you add water to the paper towel and after a few days the seed sprouts its first tap root, that is called GERMINATION. From there you can move the seed to your medium and using only water, the seed will grow into a plant. My results showed that 4 out of 5 seeds germinated in just a paper towel in a dark room with phd water in only three days, of the seeds placed in rockwool, only 3 sprouted and one died two days after sprout. Not saying this little 5 seed experiment is the end all be all of germination techniques but to say that a moist paper towel method is "USELESS" is a very ignorant thing to say. I can promise that just about anyone that has grow weed has used the paper towel method with success at some point in time.
 

diowk

Active Member
Germinating in a paper towels is by far the best technique ive tested in germinating seeds. After recently placing 5 seeds in paper towls, rock wool cubes, paper towel with plastic bags covering it, and just good old ph balanced water. You couldn't be more wrong about paper towels only showing you which ones are "viable" to root. When you add water to the paper towel and after a few days the seed sprouts its first tap root, that is called GERMINATION. From there you can move the seed to your medium and using only water, the seed will grow into a plant. My results showed that 4 out of 5 seeds germinated in just a paper towel in a dark room with phd water in only three days, of the seeds placed in rockwool, only 3 sprouted and one died two days after sprout. Not saying this little 5 seed experiment is the end all be all of germination techniques but to say that a moist paper towel method is "USELESS" is a very ignorant thing to say. I can promise that just about anyone that has grow weed has used the paper towel method with success at some point in time.
your obviously confused. Yes, a seed will pop well in paper towel with a 100% successs rate most of the time. My point is the transfer from paper towel to rockwool is an unnecessary risk that for most hobbyist growers, is just going to lower their success rate. The paper towel isnt the problem; the transfer is. You also seem to think that germination in paper towel is somehow different from germination in rockwool; it isn't. The reason the paper towel method even exists is so that you can check it and monitor the process of germination and know exactly whats going on at all times. When you do this in rockwool you have to just be confident in your method and the viability of your seeds because if you want to check whats going on you have to rip the cube apart. So yes, the paper towel method exists for the purpose of being able to tell which seeds are going to be the most viable and which ones arent going to be viable at all. If your making your own seeds and you have LOTS of seeds and only a few plants to grow then you should ABSOLUTELY use the paper towel method because the strongest seeds will make themselves apparent and it will be obvious which 5 to plant out of 100 seeds. However, for most of us who might be spending as much as 200 bucks for 10 beans, it doesnt really make sense to me.

here are some sources supporting my claim (Where are yours?):
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http://www.echocommunity.org/resource/collection/F6FFA3BF-02EF-4FE3-B180-F391C063E31A/Testing_Seed_Viability_Using_Simple_Germination_Tests.pdf&ei=4XuFUvC-CIrP2wWLpYDwAg&usg=AFQjCNExthjJa_sOBVyQq2hjVahmtnCPgA&sig2=ltUUSSUE_eA7K7AJWlIs5Q&bvm=bv.56343320,bs.1,d.b2I
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http://herbgardens.about.com/od/troubleshooting/ht/seedviable.htm&ei=4XuFUvC-CIrP2wWLpYDwAg&usg=AFQjCNGuPkvs1Q49QFbPc91_Bf7cMTmIoQ&sig2=Cxe8tC7Pzm-mUb7EKkKnSw&bvm=bv.56343320,bs.1,d.b2I
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CEUQFjAC&url=http://www.southernexposure.com/how-to-test-germination-ezp-162.html&ei=4XuFUvC-CIrP2wWLpYDwAg&usg=AFQjCNGbZ6pNpUngrd5IPLAnnGwqWkCubQ&sig2=WgMoD1Cw2bmdDb3vY2qsjA&bvm=bv.56343320,bs.1,d.b2I
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CFUQFjAE&url=http://www.uaf.edu/files/ces/publications-db/catalog/anr/FGV-00249.pdf&ei=4XuFUvC-CIrP2wWLpYDwAg&usg=AFQjCNFU2zOPtlYTXb3mzT1FiX_DmOuReg&sig2=vOY1KvMn_ax7esGZeDW3iQ&bvm=bv.56343320,bs.1,d.b2I
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CF8QFjAF&url=http://voices.yahoo.com/how-test-seed-viability-germination-rates-for-7605566.html&ei=4XuFUvC-CIrP2wWLpYDwAg&usg=AFQjCNHIHCSC1TrphSvmaMVBagSEox6DnA&sig2=hLhofZ2vXAJ3Ulj1XbM58w&bvm=bv.56343320,bs.1,d.b2I
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&ved=0CHwQtwIwCA&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vml5lewATM&ei=4XuFUvC-CIrP2wWLpYDwAg&usg=AFQjCNHdWe6hWN9TCimfEhTaGK9gbO2ttw&sig2=NOM8M6LZ3Nrn_CSDKf258Q&bvm=bv.56343320,bs.1,d.b2I
 

AimAim

Well-Known Member
I put a seed directly into the soil it's going to grow in, have close to 100% success.
 

diowk

Active Member
I put a seed directly into the soil it's going to grow in, have close to 100% success.
Without a doubt the best way if your growing in soil and dont have a lot of seeds. Thats how natures been doing it for thousands of years without any help from man so why change it? This, however, is posted under "hydroponics/aeroponics". Soil doesnt really play a role here. :) This is actually the purpose of this technique; to plant the seed in the medium its going to be growing in. Its a lot easier in soil than it is in rockwool cubes with holes that were sized for cuttings though. Thats why I made this post.
 

gtran

Active Member

  • your obviously confused. Yes, a seed will pop well in paper towel with a 100% successs rate most of the time. My point is the transfer from paper towel to rockwool is an unnecessary risk that for most hobbyist growers, is just going to lower their success rate. The paper towel isnt the problem; the transfer is. You also seem to think that germination in paper towel is somehow different from germination in rockwool; it isn't. The reason the paper towel method even exists is so that you can check it and monitor the process of germination and know exactly whats going on at all times. When you do this in rockwool you have to just be confident in your method and the viability of your seeds because if you want to check whats going on you have to rip the cube apart. So yes, the paper towel method exists for the purpose of being able to tell which seeds are going to be the most viable and which ones arent going to be viable at all. If your making your own seeds and you have LOTS of seeds and only a few plants to grow then you should ABSOLUTELY use the paper towel method because the strongest seeds will make themselves apparent and it will be obvious which 5 to plant out of 100 seeds. However, for most of us who might be spending as much as 200 bucks for 10 beans, it doesnt really make sense to me.

    Well my whole comment was based on the fact that you said the paper towel "is the dumbest" technique and you dont know why anyone uses it. Seems to me like you agreed with what i said. Although touching a freshly sprouted seed is not good, I wouldnt say that moving the seed from the paper towel to the rock wool is where most people kill the seed. As long as you grab the seed and not the tap root then it will be just fine, all you do anyone is just drop the seed right into the rockwool and pinch the top closed. Doesnt seem like a common problem to me......​




 

diowk

Active Member
Doesnt seem like a common problem to me......
Well perhaps thats because you have only been an RIU member for 6 months. You probably have not been growing for much longer than that either. Also, in no way was I agreeing with you. I simply stated that the paper towel method does have its applications but for your typical hobbyist who just got 10 beans in the mail, it isnt a good idea. I say this because every time I used this method, I would get around a 50% sprouting rate after having 90-100% germination rate in the paper towel. This was my experience almost every time. As soon as I stopped using paper towel and put the seed directly in the rockwool, my sprouting rates went to 90-100%.

I would like very much to remind you that I made this post for anyone who is unhappy with the conventional methods ( such as the paper towel method ). Its obvious that you are happy with the conventional method and I would like to ask that you no longer post in this thread unless you have something constructive to contribute. Thank you.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Hi Diowk,
I just wanted to thank you for some useful hints. I got into a discussion with someone who maintained that rockwool was bad for seedlings because it retained too much moisture. Any opinion on that? I disagree obviously and will continue to use the little cubes for seed starting.

Oh, and a comment on paper towels. I stopped doing them after I broke a taproot trying to get it untangled from the paper towel. It is sort-of a dumb idea IMHO.
Cheers,
JD
 

zem

Well-Known Member
i use rockwool for seeds, very good rate of germination, for me better than paper towel. i just make a hole out in the seed cover with rockwool dust, and i water with regular not ph'ed water. adding ph down is not aiding your seeds and is also adding to the ppm of the water. rockwool retains too much water if it is not drained well and is allowed to sit in a pool of water. it must drain well and is also my favorite cloning medium
 
Top