Abortion, if you object does that mean you want to control women's uteri

desert dude · Nov 30, 2012

I tend to avoid the whole subject of abortion because I am ambivalent on the whole idea. I am pretty much in favor of the right to choose an abortion early in a pregnancy, but I also recognize and appreciate the objections raised. I have no objections to an early abortion, but the further along you get in a pregnancy the more abhorrent it becomes. A woman usually knows by week four or so that she is pregnant. Waiting much beyond about 8 weeks to abort the pregnancy is pretty creepy.

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2012

4 weeks?

dude, she might not even know she missed her period by 4 weeks.

your display of knowledge in re vaginas in general is dizzying.

desert dude · Nov 30, 2012

UncleBuck said:
4 weeks?

dude, she might not even know she missed her period by 4 weeks.

your display of knowledge in re vaginas in general is dizzying.

Most women know when they are pregnant. Admittedly some women give birth and say, "Oh my god, I didn't even know I was pregnant" but that is such a rarity that it makes the news papers.

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2012

desert dude said:
Most women know when they are pregnant. Admittedly some women give birth and say, "Oh my god, I didn't even know I was pregnant" but that is such a rarity that it makes the news papers.

ok, so let's live in deseet dumb's world and make all abortions illegal after 8 weeks.

how do we enforce this? who gets punished for doing what and to what degree?

desert dude · Nov 30, 2012

UncleBuck said:
ok, so let's live in deseet dumb's world and make all abortions illegal after 8 weeks.

how do we enforce this? who gets punished for doing what and to what degree?

Maybe 12 weeks is more appropriate.

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2012

desert dude said:
Maybe 12 weeks is more appropriate.

so what do we do after 12 weeks? does the government strap an ankle bracelet on every single pregnant lady at that point to make sure they don't walk on uneven sidewalks or rickety stairs?

how do you propose we punish these women who dare to exercise conrtol and autonomy of their own bodies after your magical and awesome 12 week mark has passed?

ru4r34l · Nov 30, 2012

desert dude said:
I tend to avoid the whole subject of abortion because I am ambivalent on the whole idea. I am pretty much in favor of the right to choose an abortion early in a pregnancy, but I also recognize and appreciate the objections raised. I have no objections to an early abortion, but the further along you get in a pregnancy the more abhorrent it becomes. A woman usually knows by week four or so that she is pregnant. Waiting much beyond about 8 weeks to abort the pregnancy is pretty creepy.

Most women who are not trying to get pregnant USUALLY find out after missing the second or third period, I say we let women decide individually what is right for them.

regards,

cannabineer · Nov 30, 2012

I am curious at the arbitrary 8/12-week cutoff.
I oppose late-term (third-trimester) abortions except for medical reasons (which will be uncommon) because the fetus has "quickened" (the mother can feel it) and it will be likely viable ex utero.
But to set the divide so early strikes me as punitive, unless you can defend it using arguments compatible with natural philosophy ("science") ... cn

RetiredMatthebrute · Nov 30, 2012

whats better, bringing a child into a world of pverty and welfare or aborting a child to wait till you are ready...personally i would rather see mre moms waiting (even if it means aborting a couple of em) and raising some kind of hope for society rather than "feeling bad" about it and raising a welfare brat...my 2¢

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2012

cannabineer said:
I am curious at the arbitrary 8/12-week cutoff.
I oppose late-term (third-trimester) abortions except for medical reasons (which will be uncommon) because the fetus has "quickened" (the mother can feel it) and it will be likely viable ex utero.
But to set the divide so early strikes me as punitive, unless you can defend it using arguments compatible with natural philosophy ("science") ... cn

i'm more interested in hearing a supposed libertarian tell me what the punishment will be for a woman who dares to exercise autonomy over her own body after an arbitrary date that he decides on by seemingly pulling it out of his ass.

abandonconflict · Nov 30, 2012

cannabineer said:
I am curious at the arbitrary 8/12-week cutoff.
I oppose late-term (third-trimester) abortions except for medical reasons (which will be uncommon) because the fetus has "quickened" (the mother can feel it) and it will be likely viable ex utero.
But to set the divide so early strikes me as punitive, unless you can defend it using arguments compatible with natural philosophy ("science") ... cn

We had this discussion and made some strides before, "when a person?". It is my opinion that the partial birth procedure is gruesome. There should be a compromise that allows a woman maximum discretion while also upholding Carhart vs Gonzalez in all cases where there is no risk to the mother's health. Medicine has come a long way, but apparently not far enough if this moral issue hasn't been solved by scientific advancement.

ru4r34l · Nov 30, 2012

RetiredMatthebrute said:
whats better, bringing a child into a world of pverty and welfare or aborting a child to wait till you are ready...personally i would rather see mre moms waiting (even if it means aborting a couple of em) and raising some kind of hope for society rather than "feeling bad" about it and raising a welfare brat...my 2¢

welfare/poverty = brat child :confused:

regards,

timbo123 · Nov 30, 2012

desert dude said:
I tend to avoid the whole subject of abortion because I am ambivalent on the whole idea. I am pretty much in favor of the right to choose an abortion early in a pregnancy, but I also recognize and appreciate the objections raised. I have no objections to an early abortion, but the further along you get in a pregnancy the more abhorrent it becomes. A woman usually knows by week four or so that she is pregnant. Waiting much beyond about 8 weeks to abort the pregnancy is pretty creepy..

desert dude said:
Maybe 12 weeks is more appropriate.

I feel this way too. And I see our friend Buck gave you the business about the presumably arbitrary number ("8 weeks") and then 12 weeks... I myself do not know what "the right" number of weeks is but I'll throw out a couple of personal observations of my own.
Let's face it... wherever one draws their personal "line" regarding when it crosses the line into "creepy"... there damn sure IS a line at least SOMEWHERE. Can we agree on that? A mother 'terminating" an unwanted pregnancy the day before her scheduled full term C-Section delivery is doing something far more than exercising control over "her" body at that point.

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2012

timbo123 said:
I tend to avoid the whole subject of abortion because I am ambivalent on the whole idea. I am pretty much in favor of the right to choose an abortion early in a pregnancy, but I also recognize and appreciate the objections raised. I have no objections to an early abortion, but the further along you get in a pregnancy the more abhorrent it becomes. A woman usually knows by week four or so that she is pregnant. Waiting much beyond about 8 weeks to abort the pregnancy is pretty creepy.

I feel this way too. And I see our friend Buck gave you the business about the presumably arbitrary number ("8 weeks") and then 12 weeks... I myself do not know what "the right" number of weeks is but I'll throw out a couple of personal observations of my own.
Let's face it... wherever one draws their personal "line" regarding when it crosses the line into "creepy"... there damn sure IS a line at least SOMEWHERE. Can we agree on that? A mother 'terminating" an unwanted pregnancy the day before her scheduled full term C-Section delivery is doing something far more than exercising control over "her" body at that point.

so someone else gestated the little parasite?

Moses Mobetta · Nov 30, 2012

I know 2 women who had abortions and say they regretted it . 1 can't have any more children because of the procedure . Another woman I know had the child and gave it up . She has spent her life trying to contact her son and to establish a relationship , it really messed her up . I'm glad I don't have to ever be in that position , which is why I can't say other than let the individual decide what to do . After all they are the one it effects most .

racerboy71 · Nov 30, 2012

idk, if a fetus can't survive outside of the mothers womb on it's own, it's kind of hard to call it a living thing imo.. anything like cannabineer said, third trimester or so is pretty bad as i believe you're killing something that could survive outside of the uterus ...

but yah, i think it's trying to control a women's body for sure... most people who don't want to carry to term usually have some pretty solid reasons for doing so, ie, they're young, don't have good jobs, etc, or plain old don't won't a kid right now.. have you ever tried growing up knowing that your parents didn't want you? it's no good to say the least..
people always bitch about people on welfare and programs like wic et al, but then they at the same time don't want to allow abortions.. idk, i don't get it..

timbo123 · Nov 30, 2012

UncleBuck said:
so someone else gestated the little parasite?

No. The question of who did the gestation of the baby is not in question. My mother gestated me, yet I don't feel that gives her the right to "terminate" my life here at age 47.

Let's say a real life "Fat Bastard" manages to actually swallow a live baby in the delivery room of a hospital right after it pops out of the mothers pussy... does that end society' s right to attempt to lay claim to retrieval/protection of that live baby even though it currently occupies the belly of another living human??

racerboy71 · Nov 30, 2012

Moses Mobetta said:
I know 2 women who had abortions and say they regretted it . 1 can't have any more children because of the procedure . Another woman I know had the child and gave it up . She has spent her life trying to contact her son and to establish a relationship , it really messed her up . I'm glad I don't have to ever be in that position , which is why I can't say other than let the individual decide what to do . After all they are the one it effects most .

my ex neighbors adopted a kid.. they ended up having dfys remove the kid as they were abusing it.. i'm not saying all kids who get adopted have a shit life, but i will say that sometimes life in adoption homes isn't all that it's cracked up to be..

racerboy71 · Nov 30, 2012

and some chic's don't know they are pregnant the entire time.. it's so common they even have a tv show called, i'm a dumb ass and didn't know i was preggers or something along those lines..

UncleBuck · Nov 30, 2012

timbo123 said:
No. The question of who did the gestation of the baby is not in question. My mother gestated me, yet I don't feel that gives her the right to "terminate" my life here at age 47.

i think he said 12 weeks, not 47 years and 9 months.

timbo123 said:
Let's say a real life "Fat Bastard" manages to actually swallow a live baby in the delivery room of a hospital right after it pops out of the mothers pussy... does that end societies right to attempt to lay claim to retrieval/protection of that live baby even though it currently occupies the belly of another living human??

although a belly and a womb are not quite the same thing and your biological expertise enthralls me, i would pay money to see what you describe as it enthralls me to a much greater degree.

Abortion, if you object does that mean you want to control women's uteri

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