Bernanke on TV says jobless rate to stay high

Bernanke on TV says jobless rate to stay high

Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:55pm EDT


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KANSAS CITY, Missouri (Reuters) - The U.S. jobless rate is likely to stay high even once the nation exits recession some time in the next few months, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said on Sunday.
Taping a "Bernanke on the Record" special that will air on PBS this week, the top U.S. monetary policy-maker defended the aggressive, even unorthodox actions taken by the Fed during the long recession and deep financial crisis.
"I was not going to be the Federal Reserve Chairman who presided over the second Great Depression," Bernanke said.
"When you're in a situation like this, a perfect storm, sometimes you have to do things that are a little unorthodox, out of the box,"
Speaking to an audience drawn from local citizens, Bernanke said the Fed is doing all it can to turn the economy around.
"The Federal Reserve has been putting the pedal to the metal," he said, adding that "recessions happen."
But Bernanke said it takes GDP growth of about 2.5 percent to keep the jobless rate constant. The Fed's current outlook does not call for growth to reach that level in the latter part of 2009.
Latest government data show the U.S. unemployment rate at 9.5 percent, the highest since 1983.
"We're doing everything we can to support the economy. We hope that will get us going some time next year." In the meantime, inflation is likely to stay low for the next couple of years.
Asked about his opinion on the dollar, Bernanke said the U.S. central bank, in general, supports a strong dollar policy.
"The best way to have a strong dollar is to have a strong economy," he added.
The forum, moderated by veteran anchorman Jim Lehrer, was attended by about 190 local citizens pulled together by a nonpartisan civic group.
Bernanke bristled with emotion when asked about assaults on the Fed's independence -- notably, a proposal in Congress for the Government Accounting Office (GAO) to be able to "audit" the Fed's interest rate decisions.
I don't think that's consistent with independence. I don't think the American people want Congress running monetary policy. That's exactly what (the bill) would do," he said.
"Studies have shown that political influence does not lead to good policy."
(Reporting by Ros Krasny and Mark Felsenthal; Editing by Andrea Ricci)

TreesOfLife said:

Bernanke on TV says jobless rate to stay high

Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:55pm EDT


Email | Print | Share
| Reprints | Single Page



1 of 1Full Size
Related News


Bernanke PBS television forum on economy 8:22pm EDT








KANSAS CITY, Missouri (Reuters) - The U.S. jobless rate is likely to stay high even once the nation exits recession some time in the next few months, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said on Sunday.
Taping a "Bernanke on the Record" special that will air on PBS this week, the top U.S. monetary policy-maker defended the aggressive, even unorthodox actions taken by the Fed during the long recession and deep financial crisis.
"I was not going to be the Federal Reserve Chairman who presided over the second Great Depression," Bernanke said.
"When you're in a situation like this, a perfect storm, sometimes you have to do things that are a little unorthodox, out of the box,"
Speaking to an audience drawn from local citizens, Bernanke said the Fed is doing all it can to turn the economy around.
"The Federal Reserve has been putting the pedal to the metal," he said, adding that "recessions happen."
But Bernanke said it takes GDP growth of about 2.5 percent to keep the jobless rate constant. The Fed's current outlook does not call for growth to reach that level in the latter part of 2009.
Latest government data show the U.S. unemployment rate at 9.5 percent, the highest since 1983.
"We're doing everything we can to support the economy. We hope that will get us going some time next year." In the meantime, inflation is likely to stay low for the next couple of years.
Asked about his opinion on the dollar, Bernanke said the U.S. central bank, in general, supports a strong dollar policy.
"The best way to have a strong dollar is to have a strong economy," he added.
The forum, moderated by veteran anchorman Jim Lehrer, was attended by about 190 local citizens pulled together by a nonpartisan civic group.
Bernanke bristled with emotion when asked about assaults on the Fed's independence -- notably, a proposal in Congress for the Government Accounting Office (GAO) to be able to "audit" the Fed's interest rate decisions.
I don't think that's consistent with independence. I don't think the American people want Congress running monetary policy. That's exactly what (the bill) would do," he said.
"Studies have shown that political influence does not lead to good policy."
(Reporting by Ros Krasny and Mark Felsenthal; Editing by Andrea Ricci)

Click to expand...

No, they, and the imbeciles we have afflicted ourselves with in the House of Representatives are doing everything in their power to destroy the economy.

The lack of jobs is a result of over-taxation, and high minimum wage requirements.

We pursue the same idiotic policies over and over, and remain surprised when they don't work.

Raising Minimum wage (which doesn't effect that many employees) does nothing to encourage employment, but leads to more unemployment. It leads to price hikes in labor intensive industries, and motivates businesses to automate more processes and mechanize repetitive tasks.

While such progress is the natural trend of industry, it is a trend that would be slowed if the government would stop raising minimum wage.

Taxing businesses also has a negative effect, leading to rounds of inflation that only stabilize out after several years.

The people that ultimately suffer are those that have to rely upon minimum wage jobs to acquire skills. They find that the entry level jobs they want are given to skilled labor. They find that employers will not give some one with minimal experience a chance, but favor those that already have experience.

Instead of being able to enter an industry and work their way up, they find that they have to go to college, and then try to enter the industry, or work at a dead end job.

The taxes lead to less job opportunity here, and exports our jobs overseas.

If we must collect taxes (which we don't, at least not to the level the government would have us believe) we should collect them in the form of Tariffs. We should withdraw from the WTO, GATT, and all other treaties that limit our ability to set our own tariffs on our own.

Many say that these organization help free trade, but they do not. They cede our sovereignty to international bodies, and inhibit trade.

If we truly wanted free trade then all we would have to do is say we are open for trade, much like we did before WTO, GATT and all those other senseless treaties.

Instead of encouraging free trade these treaties inhibit it by adding additional layers of bureaucracy that have to be confronted by Import/Export Companies, and Shipping Companies.

It adds countless forms, and paperwork on to the process of bringing in goods by forcing us to make special exemptions for the "unique" products of other nations, and forces other nations to make the same exemptions for our "unique" products.

It is a farce and a shell-game.

The government should just set some flat level of tariffs, and then leave it. The same way that the government should just set a flat level of taxation, with out exemptions, deductions, credits, debits, and other kinds of fluff, and leave it, so that businesses can stop worrying about tax costs/benefits when they make business decisions. So individuals can stop worrying about what bracket they are going to fall in when they take a raise.

I've heard stories where people getting raises have seen their net pay go down, because they were bumped just barely into another bracket by the raise. If the government set a flat tax, then this would not happen.

You would not have to worry about being bumped by a minimal pay raise into another tax bracket and seeing your net pay drop.

We would then be able to debate the level of taxation, instead of debating about loopholes, exemptions, credits and debits. Of course, such plans are too simple for the imbeciles in the House and in the Senate, and for bureaucrats.

They don't want to govern the nation, they want to exercise power over everyone. They don't want to help any one, they just want to give the appearance of doing so, while using power to control people.

Power is a substance that is more dangerous than any other drug out there. Those that abuse it end up with serious mental disorders, and often pursue sociopathic behaviors.

imo, the ability of any one to exercise power of any one else with out that person's consent, should be abolished. People should be free to choose their own path through life, instead of being obligated to listen to the dictates of people that are hundreds of miles (in State Capitols) or thousands of miles (in D.C.) away, and are not at all familiar with the unique individual problems facing every single member of our nation.

minimum wage isn't one of the things that's fucking up the economy ... it's wall street ... and they are doing it on purpose ...

GrowRebel said:

minimum wage isn't one of the things that's fucking up the economy ... it's wall street ... and they are doing it on purpose ...

Click to expand...

If minimum wage was jacked up to $500/hr, do you not think that it would cause problems?

Do you think these problems are going to not be similar if it is just 5¢ higher than what it should be, or would be under a free market?

They might not be as SEVERE, but they still going to be there to one extent or the other.

No, they, and the imbeciles we have afflicted ourselves with in the House of Representatives are doing everything in their power to destroy the economy.

Click to expand...

Wrong.

The lack of jobs is a result of over-taxation, and high minimum wage requirements.

Click to expand...

Wrong, (psst taxes have been the lowest since Regan and we have had a very good couple decades until now. Even previous bubbles were not too bad for the couple months they affected us. ) And $8 is less than the national average, so it had almost zero affect.

Taxing businesses also has a negative effect, leading to rounds of inflation that only stabilize out after several years.

Click to expand...

True with negative affect, but has nothing to do with inflation.

The people that ultimately suffer are those that have to rely upon minimum wage jobs to acquire skills. They find that the entry level jobs they want are given to skilled labor. They find that employers will not give some one with minimal experience a chance, but favor those that already have experience.

Instead of being able to enter an industry and work their way up, they find that they have to go to college, and then try to enter the industry, or work at a dead end job.

Click to expand...

I don't think that you need a degree or be skilled labor to get grocery carts or flip burgers.

The taxes lead to less job opportunity here, and exports our jobs overseas.

Click to expand...

True if they can't handle the 3% increase. But to say that they move because of taxes is a cop-out, since really it is to pay the much lower salaries over into the places they move to. It just plays a lot better than saying we are moving to be able to pay $50 a day per employee instead of the $400 a day here.

If we must collect taxes (which we don't, at least not to the level the government would have us believe) we should collect them in the form of Tariffs. We should withdraw from the WTO, GATT, and all other treaties that limit our ability to set our own tariffs on our own.

Many say that these organization help free trade, but they do not. They cede our sovereignty to international bodies, and inhibit trade.

If we truly wanted free trade then all we would have to do is say we are open for trade, much like we did before WTO, GATT and all those other senseless treaties.

Instead of encouraging free trade these treaties inhibit it by adding additional layers of bureaucracy that have to be confronted by Import/Export Companies, and Shipping Companies.

It adds countless forms, and paperwork on to the process of bringing in goods by forcing us to make special exemptions for the "unique" products of other nations, and forces other nations to make the same exemptions for our "unique" products.

It is a farce and a shell-game.

Click to expand...

Sure, but why do countries still trade most exports to us? Oh because they make more money here than anywhere else in the world.

The government should just set some flat level of tariffs, and then leave it. The same way that the government should just set a flat level of taxation, with out exemptions, deductions, credits, debits, and other kinds of fluff, and leave it, so that businesses can stop worrying about tax costs/benefits when they make business decisions. So individuals can stop worrying about what bracket they are going to fall in when they take a raise.

Click to expand...

Flat taxes favor the wealthy. But you refuse to actually look at the facts, so w/e.

I've heard stories where people getting raises have seen their net pay go down, because they were bumped just barely into another bracket by the raise. If the government set a flat tax, then this would not happen.

You would not have to worry about being bumped by a minimal pay raise into another tax bracket and seeing your net pay drop.

Click to expand...

True, usually this is hurt when people have a lot of money made in stock markets. This is why they don't make the breaks 150k they make it 187k since it is not a normal salary cut.

We would then be able to debate the level of taxation, instead of debating about loopholes, exemptions, credits and debits. Of course, such plans are too simple for the imbeciles in the House and in the Senate, and for bureaucrats.

Click to expand...

True.

They don't want to govern the nation, they want to exercise power over everyone. They don't want to help any one, they just want to give the appearance of doing so, while using power to control people.

Power is a substance that is more dangerous than any other drug out there. Those that abuse it end up with serious mental disorders, and often pursue sociopathic behaviors.

imo, the ability of any one to exercise power of any one else with out that person's consent, should be abolished. People should be free to choose their own path through life, instead of being obligated to listen to the dictates of people that are hundreds of miles (in State Capitols) or thousands of miles (in D.C.) away, and are not at all familiar with the unique individual problems facing every single member of our nation.

Click to expand...

True.

If minimum wage was jacked up to $500/hr, do you not think that it would cause problems?

Do you think these problems are going to not be similar if it is just 5¢ higher than what it should be, or would be under a free market?

They might not be as SEVERE, but they still going to be there to one extent or the other.

Click to expand...

Would be true if that 5 cents was not already about a buck and a half under the equilibrium.

Wrong, (psst taxes have been the lowest since Regan and we have had a very good couple decades until now. Even previous bubbles were not too bad for the couple months they affected us. ) And $8 is less than the national average, so it had almost zero affect.

Click to expand...

But not zero effect, and you need to learn how to properly use the words affect and effect, because you clearly don't know how to use them.

But to quote you,

You're wrong, but that's okay, you can blame it on your ignorance.

True with negative affect, but has nothing to do with inflation.

Click to expand...

Do you even understand what inflation is?

I don't think that you need a degree or be skilled labor to get grocery carts or flip burgers.

Click to expand...

True if they can't handle the 3% increase. But to say that they move because of taxes is a cop-out, since really it is to pay the much lower salaries over into the places they move to. It just plays a lot better than saying we are moving to be able to pay $50 a day per employee instead of the $400 a day here.

Click to expand...

Which deprives our citizen of jobs, and if they use the tax hikes as a reason for moving, or state that the most recent round of tax hikes are the reason, then it is clear that the tax hikes are the reason.

The United States does not exist in a vacuum. If we intend on ever reversing our trend towards decline then we need to aggressively pursue pro-growth policies that bring in jobs to the country, and encourage them to stay.

Not everyone can be a politician or a bureaucrat, though it does certainly seem that some deluded individuals believe that to be possible.

Sure, but why do countries still trade most exports to us? Oh because they make more money here than anywhere else in the world.

Click to expand...

Is the balance of trade sustainable, myrmidon?

Oh, wait, I'm asking a supporter of Keynesians, so your answer is that it's not going to matter in the long term, because in the long term, we're all dead anyway.

Flat taxes favor the wealthy. But you refuse to actually look at the facts, so w/e.

Click to expand...

Okay, fine then, flat taxes favor the wealthy, because it doesn't punish hard work, and actually attempting to climb the economic ladder.

BIG WHOOP, if it delivers a benefit to the middle class and to the working class then it doesn't matter.

If some one that is stuck finding themselves working two of those $8/hr jobs that you point to for some reason, perhaps because they couldn't find a job after paying for a useless degree, then it is irrational to punish them for their attempt to make good the debts that they incurred like a responsible, mature human being.

True, usually this is hurt when people have a lot of money made in stock markets. This is why they don't make the breaks 150k they make it 187k since it is not a normal salary cut.

Click to expand...

True.



True.



Would be true if that 5 cents was not already about a buck and a half under the equilibrium.[/QUOTE]

Prove your last statement, clearly if there are jobs under minimum wage then there is a glut of supply, which is fairly evident by the level of unemployment. If people can find jobs at a lower pay than should they not be able to take it, if they so desire?

hani, you are a rube. but keep talking. i am a conservative and unlike liberals who want to shut up everyone who disagrees with them, i take the opposite approach....let them speak. when you speak you help me make my point. just like your global warming nonsense (3000 cities report coldest july ever)your ignorance of your self over importance along with the utter nonsense that you say.....i need not add anything. conservatives support you 100 % keep talkin brother.

But not zero effect, and you need to learn how to properly use the words affect and effect, because you clearly don't know how to use them.

But to quote you,

You're wrong, but that's okay, you can blame it on your ignorance.

Click to expand...

Effect can be used as a noun, affect is the action. The Effects of this that will affect us.

Do you even understand what inflation is?

Click to expand...

Unlike you I actually study economics, and am not just acting like I do because I read about Austrian economics, that is full of biased.

Which deprives our citizen of jobs, and if they use the tax hikes as a reason for moving, or state that the most recent round of tax hikes are the reason, then it is clear that the tax hikes are the reason.

The United States does not exist in a vacuum. If we intend on ever reversing our trend towards decline then we need to aggressively pursue pro-growth policies that bring in jobs to the country, and encourage them to stay.

Not everyone can be a politician or a bureaucrat, though it does certainly seem that some deluded individuals believe that to be possible.

Click to expand...

Oh ok, so to placate people we should not actually know the true reason they are leaving. It is much better to pretend that it is the 3% tax hike and not the fact they want to not pay the salaries.

Is the balance of trade sustainable, myrmidon?

Oh, wait, I'm asking a supporter of Keynesians, so your answer is that it's not going to matter in the long term, because in the long term, we're all dead anyway.

Click to expand...

To quote the spanish guy in The princess bride, I do not that means what you think it means. I am coming with facts, and you again dismiss it and call me a myrmidon.

And you still cannot process what economics is. Economics is not keynesian or neoclassical, it is economics. The only one that I would even classify as seperate is austrian since it is a political idea wraped with dismissive economics. Trade balances are sustanable as long as your doing it right. If you stop and put in political beliefs into the numbers you can get skewed numbers.

But as we are not actually becoming better educated and specialized we are not helping our people move out of the lower end jobs and into things that would be sustainable.

Okay, fine then, flat taxes favor the wealthy, because it doesn't punish hard work, and actually attempting to climb the economic ladder.

BIG WHOOP, if it delivers a benefit to the middle class and to the working class then it doesn't matter.

If some one that is stuck finding themselves working two of those $8/hr jobs that you point to for some reason, perhaps because they couldn't find a job after paying for a useless degree, then it is irrational to punish them for their attempt to make good the debts that they incurred like a responsible, mature human being.

Click to expand...

I was pointing to the minimum wage at $8 and hour. I don't begrude them for working them. So I guess I don't understand what your saying there.

hani, you are a rube. but keep talking. i am a conservative and unlike liberals who want to shut up everyone who disagrees with them, i take the opposite approach....let them speak. when you speak you help me make my point. just like your global warming nonsense (3000 cities report coldest july ever)your ignorance of your self over importance along with the utter nonsense that you say.....i need not add anything. conservatives support you 100 % keep talkin brother.

Click to expand...

Jeff I get a lot of crap on these boards, that is why I get rude. Just check out the gold thread and see how many times he calls me myrmidon. I am fiscally conservative too, socially liberal. And it is funny that on the more left leaning boards I get called a right winger all the time. The facts are both sides fall into this idiocracy of listening only to the talking heads and except what they say like it is the gospel.

And 'my' global warming? That aside, pollution is what needs to be stopped. And if by doing so we can move our economy into producing new technologies that will allow us to become leaders in this new manufacturing, we should not do it because you don't believe in global warming? Just take a look at the world average temp rates btw. Just because in many places the temperatures are different does not mean that it is wrong.

But that is fine, I will continue to keep talking. I am trying to get people to think for themselves and not blindly follow anything. Know the facts, distrust what you hear, and know how to find the actual information before it is mangled by peoples political beliefs. After you do that then form your opinion.

Curious, how did you formulate your opinion about global warming?

hanimmal said:

Effect can be used as a noun, affect is the action. The Effects of this that will affect us.



Unlike you I actually study economics, and am not just acting like I do because I read about Austrian economics, that is full of biased.



Oh ok, so to placate people we should not actually know the true reason they are leaving. It is much better to pretend that it is the 3% tax hike and not the fact they want to not pay the salaries.



To quote the spanish guy in The princess bride, I do not that means what you think it means. I am coming with facts, and you again dismiss it and call me a myrmidon.

And you still cannot process what economics is. Economics is not keynesian or neoclassical, it is economics. The only one that I would even classify as seperate is austrian since it is a political idea wraped with dismissive economics. Trade balances are sustanable as long as your doing it right. If you stop and put in political beliefs into the numbers you can get skewed numbers.

But as we are not actually becoming better educated and specialized we are not helping our people move out of the lower end jobs and into things that would be sustainable.



I was pointing to the minimum wage at $8 and hour. I don't begrude them for working them. So I guess I don't understand what your saying there.



Jeff I get a lot of crap on these boards, that is why I get rude. Just check out the gold thread and see how many times he calls me myrmidon. I am fiscally conservative too, socially liberal. And it is funny that on the more left leaning boards I get called a right winger all the time. The facts are both sides fall into this idiocracy of listening only to the talking heads and except what they say like it is the gospel.

And 'my' global warming? That aside, pollution is what needs to be stopped. And if by doing so we can move our economy into producing new technologies that will allow us to become leaders in this new manufacturing, we should not do it because you don't believe in global warming? Just take a look at the world average temp rates btw. Just because in many places the temperatures are different does not mean that it is wrong.

But that is fine, I will continue to keep talking. I am trying to get people to think for themselves and not blindly follow anything. Know the facts, distrust what you hear, and know how to find the actual information before it is mangled by peoples political beliefs. After you do that then form your opinion.

Curious, how did you formulate your opinion about global warming?

Click to expand...

Left vs Right is OLD

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. Abraham Lincoln 16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

Increasing minimum wages always ends up hurting the intended.

I have a business of 10 employees who get minimum wage. I must now pay my employees more by govt. declared fiat. Now my profit margin hasn't increased, but my payroll has. Whatever will I, the business owner do? I will do one of two things. I will either not hire another worker or I will let one go to offset the increase on the others.

Unemployment goes up and the kid who wants to flip burgers gets stiffed.

Pretty simple.... that's no way to help the economy... (pssst, they know this)

Hanimmal, so what do you suggest? Do you agree with the bills that they are trying to pass in congress? What is your opinion on the Climate Change and Energy bill? Do you think that giving absolute control to regulate every aspect of our lives to the government is the solution for this country?

TheBrutalTruth said:

I've heard stories where people getting raises have seen their net pay go down, because they were bumped just barely into another bracket by the raise. If the government set a flat tax, then this would not happen.

Click to expand...

So wrong about this. You need to understand how tax brackets work before you start preaching this as fact because these stories are just that - stories.

http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/27/dont-fear-the-higher-tax-bracket-or-why-a-reader-needs-more-cowbell/

I read your link and yes, if you manipulate the numbers, you can make an argument. However, it is no more valid than what TBT said. change the raise amount, which the author pegged at +25% (arbitrary), and you get a very different picture.

Technically the net will not go down, but then again, it may not go up much either. Certainly for the raise your workload will either increase in volume or complexity, despite hardly any monetary reward.

Each case is unique, but the tax brackets and increases must always be examined before lunging for the carrot, else you get hit with the tax and/or performance stick.

i love how the very people who claim to be above the propaganda allow themselves to be talked into overlooking the all-powerful bankers who fucked our economy...and then go on to blame minimum-wage earners. priceless

Increasing minimum wages always ends up hurting the intended.

I have a business of 10 employees who get minimum wage. I must now pay my employees more by govt. declared fiat. Now my profit margin hasn't increased, but my payroll has. Whatever will I, the business owner do? I will do one of two things. I will either not hire another worker or I will let one go to offset the increase on the others.

Unemployment goes up and the kid who wants to flip burgers gets stiffed.

Pretty simple.... that's no way to help the economy... (pssst, they know this)

Click to expand...

When I was doing landscaping back in the mid 90's I was getting $8 an hour. So if your still paying that much money today (minimum wage now it was just raised to 5.25 then) chances are your employees won't stay with you long anyway solving that problem. Most landscape jobs are either under the table, or they are about 10 bucks an hour now.

Hanimmal, so what do you suggest? Do you agree with the bills that they are trying to pass in congress? What is your opinion on the Climate Change and Energy bill? Do you think that giving absolute control to regulate every aspect of our lives to the government is the solution for this country?

Click to expand...

I agree that unemployment is going to lag a bit, but there seems to be some indicators showing that it is about to move into the positive direction.

By passing the stimulus bill it did help several hundred thousand jobs not have to be tossed due to budget cuts. And it isn't even half over yet, so yes I think that was a very good move for the economy.

The bailout of the banks (and AIG since they are wrapped up in it), although I wish we could just let them fail, we cannot since they are the lifeblood of the economy. And as soon as 1 fails more would follow locking up credit for about 5 years (just like the great depresion). So unfortunantly that was needed to avoid a huge collapse.

-But I would like to see the regulations tightened on them again. I was just reading about reverse mortgages that are targetting the aging baby boomers and we could end up with a large portion homeless in a decade do to it. And I would like to see how that is Acorns fault.

The health insurance program bill is also a wake up that is needed. We cannot have 1/6 of our population without adiquate care (going to emergancy room for basic needs, using medicade to get free vicadin and selling it, using the insurance as a way to fatten up the hospital bills). And if the insurance companies are forced to look at ways to save money that are not involving the current practice of deny, deny, deny. And this is at least a way to force the insurance companies to come back to the table and improve efficiency at the hospital level.

Do I like it. Interesting question, I don't think this will be the end all be all and we could do it better, but as it is all we are going to get I think that it is the best option.

Energy Bill: This is one that I really think is a good thing. It is as Boehner said "Too little Too late" in his speech, but if people like him wouldn't have been blocking it so hard for so long it wouldn't have had to been.

We already have building standards, and several of them are out of date. If we can implement things like better insulation, efficient water (ie toilets), more efficient heat and water heaters. I think that it is a very good thing. But is it enough? Doubtful.

We have the power to really make some changes. If we could on a massive scale put on solar panels on all new homes that are produced here in the states (would greatly reduce the costs), imagine all the jobs that would create. And imagine your home not needing to pay for the power your using and getting a check from the energy company at the end of the month for the extra you dumped into the system.

Then there is the saftey of it, with every new home being built and retro fits that would be optional the blackouts/brownouts wouldn't have happened. Remember about 5-6 years ago that drug the NE into a 3 day blackout, the strain would have been much less if the majority of homes was pumping out energy like mini power plants.

And cars should be able to be bought that can save us half the gas a year we spend now in a like size auto. If I buy a electric car I cannot use it since there is no infrastructure in place. So why would the big three make it since it would not be able to be used. So by the government investing into a grid that would allow for this, we can stop using as much foreign oil. We need to get independant of the side costs the best we can. I am all for free trade, but not if it is something that can be mostly free.

And even if you don't agree with climate change, it is hard to begrudge entire new clean industries that we could leapfrog.

I like the horse/car analogy. Horse farmers, saddle makers, vets all hated the cars. They stood and tried to fight off the progress and lost.

And the cries that it will cost more money is true. But dumping waste into the air is not doing it right. They made the same arguments about not dumping waste into the water, but I think we all like cleanish water.

So this is one that I too agree is needed, even if too little too late.

PVS said:

i love how the very people who claim to be above the propaganda allow themselves to be talked into overlooking the all-powerful bankers who fucked our economy...and then go on to blame minimum-wage earners. priceless

Click to expand...

Bernake is a banker... Who do you think controls the White House. There are many different ways this thing can go. I'm sure when the new Puppets get in office, they get shown the Real JFK tapes... Lastly If you want to know what road we are headed down look no further then... The Palestinian People.

PVS said:

i love how the very people who claim to be above the propaganda allow themselves to be talked into overlooking the all-powerful bankers who fucked our economy...and then go on to blame minimum-wage earners. priceless

Click to expand...

Only you are connecting those dots together...no one else is. Sort of shows your misunderstanding of the economy and its MANY facets all linking TOGETHER.

CrackerJax said:

Only you are connecting those dots together...no one else is. Sort of shows your misunderstanding of the economy and its MANY facets all linking TOGETHER.

Click to expand...

i'm particularly referring to the OP who attempts to place blame for the recession and crapped out job market directly on raised minimum wages.

Well, the OP never talks about it. Either way it's one more nail in the coffin. Every time minimum wage is enacted, the jobless rate rises. Every time......now they know this and yet they continue with it. Why? Because they think we are that dumb and easily fooled. I dare say....some of you are on this thread.

Simple. The more they screw the job market up, the more jobless people they have looking towards the government for help. Would people with good jobs and health insurance support his health care plan? Probably not. But if they were jobless and desperate, it's easier to take advantage (control) of them.

Tear the society down and rebuild it into socialism.