Brilliant Vertical Ebb and FLo Concept..

Well at least I think it is a great concept.. thats why i am putting it up here to see what you guys think..

ok so here it goes. I was trying to brainstorm and think of the best way to do a vertical ebb and flow or aeroponic system and i think i may have stumbled on something brilliant!! check out this crude paint drawing and see.. i hope it comes out alright...

This is a TOP view



EDIT: made a side view for better understanding

SIDE View



so this is a topside view.. you have a res (represented by the blue), could just be a rubbermaid or whatever and then you make a 3ft by 3ft square out of pvc pipe with one open end over the res.

each side has 4 sites that are each 6 inches apart, with 6 inches from each corner.

each site would be for 4 inch net cups which you could fill with a little hydroton or whatever and have the roots hang down into the pvc.

now you would drill a hole in the bottom of the pvc pipe to accomodate your pump (represented by red) which would flood the pvc..

now in order to control the level, you would get an end cap for the pvc, and cut it in half to act as a spill over similar to what is seen in flood and drain tables, which, when pumped to the appropriate height would start to spill over into the res, insetead of over your holes for your sites and onto the floor.

so the roots would grow all through the pvc pipes, and when finished just clear em out and start new ones.

the middle would be open so that you could hang your light vertically in the middle and have a fan underneath it to create a convection effect.

and with 16 sites, proper veg time and nutrition would easily allow an ounce per plant if not more under a 600w lamp, and you could lolipop them and have just single huge colas all the way around the perimeter, enclosing the light.. i would be willing to venture out and say that 1.5lbs would be possible with proper veg time and the right strain

now here is where it gets interesting..

lets say you run 4 of these systems

if you built a large aerocloner that you cloned with 4 inch net pots, you could veg them out to about a foot or so each, and place a new crop into one of the systems every 2 weeks, this would mean that you could be cropping 1-1.5 lbs every two weeks under 2400w of light.. cleanup would be easy, and a perpetual setup would be a breeze to maintain...

now i know the picture is crude but what is your first reaction? good? bad? any comments or suggestions?? i would like to make a prototype of this to test out after my current run is done..

lemme know!

FLo

Sounds like a good plan to me. Mass production at it's best. As a soil grower, why not fill the rubber maid tub up with good soil, water & walk away?

you could do that too.. but soil is hard to get rid of in an urban setting.. plus others will argue that aero/hydro will grow faster and larger..

this means you are getting the best of everything... vertical hanging bulbs, full usage and coverage of light, hydro/aero growth, and nothing to get rid of other than water and roots!

it may not be as brilliant as i thought but i about shit myself when i thought about it this morning LOL

looks great but just a thought. wouldnt it be better if you could get some type of curved piping and made a circle shape instead of a square? just seems like it would help the plants get a more even amount of light.

icepik1234 said:

looks great but just a thought. wouldnt it be better if you could get some type of curved piping and made a circle shape instead of a square? just seems like it would help the plants get a more even amount of light.

Click to expand...

yes it most certainly would... i would have to look at home depot and see what kind of pvc angles they have but at best i would say you could build an octogon or pentagon shaped system.. im going to go look on lowes and home de pot website now

i could not find anything that would work to make it circular.. although i did find a few 45 degree angles.. but not in the larger sizes.. i am sure there are ways to make it work but would be much more difficult to make the proper dimensions in order to get full coverage..

in a vertical grow the plants tend to bend in towards the light, so by leaving a six inch gap on the ends leaves room for them to lean inward a bit.. once they do lean inwards it would most likely close the gap essentially making a more or less circular canopy inside..

i am really stoked about this method because you are using about the same space that would be used with a 600w (3x3) but you are able to use more of the light and give the plants full coverage from top to bottom which i think would mean a better yield.. what would be even slicker would be to add another level slightly larger and raised up about 6 inches to get a vertical full coverage stadium type effect.

You could do an octagon. Btw, do you plan on having multiple tiers?

FLoJo said:

what would be even slicker would be to add another level slightly larger and raised up about 6 inches to get a vertical full coverage stadium type effect.

Click to expand...

yeah i was thinking about this as i was walking out the door today. you could lean the holes in like you did on your current vertical grow. this would allow you to have multiple rows going up.

This looks like a mix between NFT and ebb and flow.

ya it is kind of a mix between them...

and as far as multiple tears i am not sure.. i guess it really depended on how large the plants were that you flowered.. i would imagine that if you let them get about 15 inches tall that by maturity they would take up all that the light had to offer and you wouldnt need multiple tiers.. but if you flowered them as clones you could def. have a couple of tiers.

also i dont think i would tilt them in at all because 18 inches is about as close as you want to get with the light.. they will naturally bend in towards the light but if they get too much closer they will buuuurn

So how many plants in it and how much total sq/f for this thing?

How many levels?

as the concept stands now it is using 3sq feet of floor space, and 16 plant sites.. 4 on each side.

now assuming you start with 1ft tall plants (of foliage, not 4 inches of bottom stem), you will essentially start with a canopy of 9sq feet, and if they double in size ending up with 24 sq feet..

now with a normal flat garden you would have 9 sq feet of canopy but would get some penetration which would increase the "canopy space" that recieves light..

plus you are using the same number of plants as you would in a flat garden so here is my theory...

i believe that a good grower get s about 1lb per 600w light. now with this concept, each plant recieves light from the top to the bottom, which means a strain that grows thick single colas would be ideal, like ak47. because the plant is getting light from the top to bottom, it could grow one solid thick cola from ground up.. if flowered at about 15 inches tall total, i believe it would be easy to get over 1 oz per plant in this system.. with 16 sites that would mean 1lb per 600w at least. of course it is all theory until i actually build one but what are the first impressions?

does it need more plants to achieve this?
does it need more space?
do you think a flat garden and flat canopy would yield the same or more despite less penetration to bottom foliage?

lets get the brain juices flowin here

FLo

3sqf??


Are you sure its not 3x3.....9 sq F?

I'm not understanding how this would be better than a drip system most commonly used in this type of configuration. (aside from soil I mean)

Standard drip with emitters...

Not doubting, just maybe need help clarifying it as my eyes started to cross half way through the description and I had to just imagine what you might mean rather than trying to read it.

yes bc, you are correct i meant 9sf LOL

and this would be a nft/ebb and flow with the addition of being a vertical setup where the bulb would hang in the middle of all the plants... i posted some pics you should check em out

FLoJo said:

yes bc, you are correct i meant 9sf LOL

and this would be a nft/ebb and flow with the addition of being a vertical setup where the bulb would hang in the middle of all the plants... i posted some pics you should check em out

Click to expand...

Its a decent idea, a lot of work to set up and clean.

I like the idea of surrounding a bulb with plants tho, you could easily do this in a flat grow, with soil, just hang the bulb in a cooltube vertically, and set up a circle of plants around the light.

Personally I would like to see more proof and results of vertical grows being more efficient for the space. I would just like to see how the plants fill out, and how much bud/plant you can achieve with the basic concept which is light beside the plants and not above.

I like the idea of using all the bulb, but Im just not "sold" on vertical yet.


It seems like your 2400w beast would be more efficient then this. But I guess if you have extra space, and your trying to maximize yields for 600w bulbs this would be a good place to start.

I can only dream of having space to experiment...one day....hopefully soon.

BCtrippin said:

Its a decent idea, a lot of work to set up and clean.

I like the idea of surrounding a bulb with plants tho, you could easily do this in a flat grow, with soil, just hang the bulb in a cooltube vertically, and set up a circle of plants around the light.

Personally I would like to see more proof and results of vertical grows being more efficient for the space. I would just like to see how the plants fill out, and how much bud/plant you can achieve with the basic concept which is light beside the plants and not above.

I like the idea of using all the bulb, but Im just not "sold" on vertical yet.


It seems like your 2400w beast would be more efficient then this. But I guess if you have extra space, and your trying to maximize yields for 600w bulbs this would be a good place to start.

I can only dream of having space to experiment...one day....hopefully soon.

Click to expand...

yes i am definitely excited to see what kind of results can be had from my big boy, but this design would be much simpler to setup, easier to clean out, and potentially be a great yielder..

vertical bulbs definitely make buds rock hard from the bottom up, i can see that through my expiraments.. the question is does having the side of the plants lit up really equal a bigger canopy..

i think any good grower can use a 3x3 ebb and flow table and yield 1lb under a 600w with a hood.. my thing is would this allow the plants that would normally get 1oz in a flat garden, ger 1 and a quarter oz per plant due to the bottoms getting a chance to harden up.. if you could pull 1lb 4 oz off of a 600w with this setup i think that would speak for itself...

i will be constructing one here in the next few weeks and will show a mock up of it.. i also want to go get a 3x3 ebb and flow table and run a side by side and truly see which one performs better.. i think that would be a definitive test

If you manage over a pound with a 600w light I will be very impressed.

This is definitely going to be one of the better experiments for trying to maximize yield with minimal wattage.

Im still really curious to see how much your gonna crop in your 2400w vertical grow.

haha you are tellin me BC.. its gonna be a big one thats for sure.. the soilers are about 4 or 5 days behind the hydro as far as maturation goes.. but the agent orange is getting THICK.. the trainwreks are stinkin up the place and really starting to swell up.. i know for sure i will get 1lb a light with that one, i am planning on about 1.5... we shall see about valentines day!

FLoJo said:

haha you are tellin me BC.. its gonna be a big one thats for sure.. the soilers are about 4 or 5 days behind the hydro as far as maturation goes.. but the agent orange is getting THICK.. the trainwreks are stinkin up the place and really starting to swell up.. i know for sure i will get 1lb a light with that one, i am planning on about 1.5... we shall see about valentines day!

Click to expand...

Its kinda nice when plants mature a little longer, Dont have to clip as much all at once.