Composting For The First Time

Hi there, I'm about to compost for the first time and I was wondering if it would be enough to put vegetables (leaves, stems, fruits) for the nitrogen and dry plants for the carbon.

Will it work with only those two things ?

Don't even bother with it unless you have A) plenty of extra vegetables, like an abundance, compost shrinks to about 1/4. I have large piles of compost in my backyard and loads of vegetables are put into weekly. Compost really requires 2 things carbon, and nitrogen. The only real way to make a good amount is with a shredder or chipper, Unless you just bought the basics to make it with such as Grass and Sawdust which would work good. We have a shredder which doesn't work right now, but for the most part you need a lot of stuff from the yard and something to break it all down with

lince said:

Hi there, I'm about to compost for the first time and I was wondering if it would be enough to put vegetables (leaves, stems, fruits) for the nitrogen and dry plants for the carbon.

Will it work with only those two things ?

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Simple put yes. Sometimes we make it more complex, and grant it the better material you put in the better the compost.
I had several failed attempts at starting composting simple because I didn't put enough carbon (brown stuff), leaves, paper, dried plants etc. I had a wet stinking slimy anaerobic mess.
Brown stuff left on there own will eventually rot and you'll have compost. Its summer I have lots of fresh vegetable waste and I roll this into the leaves that have been rotting since last fall. By late fall, early spring I'll have great compost.
I now add a little alfalfa to everything, and if you have access to a active compost pile get a bucket and layer it in, this will add already active bacteria to the pile and help things along.
Go for it. Composting may be the most natural thing you can do.

I LOVE it when I hear someone looking to start composting. Any level of composting is encouraged. Compost + EWC is really the best and most natural medium. Best micro-life to tend to the plant. The "organic" nute craze is just lining some companies' pocket. Mother nature is free and very forgiving.

A shredder\chipper would be great, wish I had one. I know various places rent out that kind of equipment (along with commercial restaurant\hospitality stuff). You could in theory rent a chipper (around here we call them mulchers) on certain occasions, like at the end of fall when you have an abundance of leaves. You could mulch them and store enough for later use.

At the very least you can work with a lawnmower, food-processor and\or coffee grinder. Otherwise you have to cut up everything, by hand, or you'll be waiting more like half a year for finished compost. There can be some sticks\twigs and chunkier pieces, but the smaller the particles are the faster the bacteria can get to work decomposing them. In nature when a tree sheds its leaves, the leaves fall and gather (on the floor of a forest, for example). In this case various exogenous forces begin to decay the leaves: the lower level of the litter will retain enough moisture that saprophytic fungi can begin to colonize the material. The fungi can digest the more complex carbohydrates (cellulose) within the leaves and they can physically penetrate solid materials with their hyphae and digest it enzymatically. Fungi can also digest lignin, which isn't a carbohydrate but is found in woody materials (and in leaf twigs), encompassing the cellulose and giving the wood it's strength.

Bacteria, on the other hand, are single celled organisms. They typically need more moisture to live and can only work on the surface of a material. Only special kinds of bacteria can break down cellulose and even less are capable of breaking down lignin or other more complex compounds. But, they are still primary decomposers, adept at going for soft and easy to digest materials and able to proliferate rapidly. They move in once the fungi have taken care of the cellulose and the material is broken down sufficiently. Aerobic bacteria produce heat as a result of their metabolism, and they are the organisms primarily responsible for heating up a man-made compost pile.

So if we want rapid thermophilic compost we must break down the materials first ourselves; otherwise we have to wait for fungi, arthropods and other animals to exert actions that open the materials up for bacteria naturally. You'll also need enough of the right materials for a pile large enough to heat up, it should be at least 3' x 3'. The microbes need carbon to fuel their metabolism, and nitrogen to build amino acids\proteins in order to live. Fresh green materials also contain the simple sugars bacteria like. Materials should also be mixed at the correct ratio of C:N which is roughly 30:1. This will ensure properly paced decay, resulting in sweet smelling compost without burning away the nutrients.

The fresher the greens the more nitrogen will be present in the material. Fresh grass clippings are probably the best green material (19:1) and should be abundant obviously if you have a lawn. Try to ensure the blade on the mower is sufficiently sharp so it gets mulched good and bag some of the clippings. When you empty the bag lay the clippings out in the sun so they'll dry out before adding them to the compost. If you add wet clippings you have to do it layered in with drier brown material, otherwise the clippings will clump up and provide pockets of anaerobic conditions. Alfalfa is another good green material as snew recommended and you can find it at animal feed stores.

Fallen autumn leaves are a popular brown material. Sphagnum peat moss is also a brown material with about the same ratio of carbon (50:1). Many regular home improvement stores sell sphagnum in large bales in the garden center. Coffee grounds, tea bags, parper towels, newspapers and cardboard are also brown materials, along with other woody materials.

Grass clippings and/or alfalfa with dry leaves and/or sphagnum can be mixed together to provide a quick basis for a compost pile. You can throw down some sticks, twigs, tree bark, etc. in order to give it a foundation and allow for some air exchange underneath. It helps to get a compost starter\activator that has microbes. Espoma and other companies sell them. Otherwise you could just use a dry organic fertilizer like Espoma Garden, Plant or Holly-Tone (also sold at Lowes\Home Depot) and sprinkle several cups in with your materials. Mix it up and moisten it, plain water will do but if you can use some molasses or better yet a compost tea to stimulate\impart microbes onto the pile. If you've done it correctly it should really heat up within a couple of days. Turn your pile daily and if it isn't too hot continue to add in your kitchen\yard scraps.

Very generous post, Nullis

people often forget things you shouldnt put in a compost, ... and that is mostly everything that contains protein,... so all grain, bread, eggs (egg shell are good), fish, dairy product ... should not get into your compost!

Thanks for the replies guys

Gr33nCrack said:

Don't even bother with it unless you have A) plenty of extra vegetables, like an abundance, compost shrinks to about 1/4. I have large piles of compost in my backyard and loads of vegetables are put into weekly. Compost really requires 2 things carbon, and nitrogen. The only real way to make a good amount is with a shredder or chipper, Unless you just bought the basics to make it with such as Grass and Sawdust which would work good. We have a shredder which doesn't work right now, but for the most part you need a lot of stuff from the yard and something to break it all down with

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I do have plenty of extra vegetables and plenty of extra dry plants, that's why I wanted to know if I could do it with those two components. Good point about shredding it, not sure how I'll do that but I'll give it a go and see what happends

snew said:

Simple put yes. Sometimes we make it more complex, and grant it the better material you put in the better the compost.
I had several failed attempts at starting composting simple because I didn't put enough carbon (brown stuff), leaves, paper, dried plants etc. I had a wet stinking slimy anaerobic mess.
Brown stuff left on there own will eventually rot and you'll have compost. Its summer I have lots of fresh vegetable waste and I roll this into the leaves that have been rotting since last fall. By late fall, early spring I'll have great compost.
I now add a little alfalfa to everything, and if you have access to a active compost pile get a bucket and layer it in, this will add already active bacteria to the pile and help things along.
Go for it. Composting may be the most natural thing you can do.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info mate, I really wanted to know if I could do it with those two things I've got lying around. I haven't got an active pile but I could get some horse manure which I read it could help, although I also read to be very careful with manures because they can carry viruses and stuff so I may give it a miss.

Rrog said:

I LOVE it when I hear someone looking to start composting. Any level of composting is encouraged. Compost + EWC is really the best and most natural medium. Best micro-life to tend to the plant. The "organic" nute craze is just lining some companies' pocket. Mother nature is free and very forgiving.

Click to expand...

Nice to see somebody with that much energy in the thread, thanks for the support Rrog I'll definitely give it a go and hopefully have some compost in 2-3 months

Nullis said:

A shredder\chipper would be great, wish I had one. I know various places rent out that kind of equipment (along with commercial restaurant\hospitality stuff). You could in theory rent a chipper (around here we call them mulchers) on certain occasions, like at the end of fall when you have an abundance of leaves. You could mulch them and store enough for later use......

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Nullis, agree that a shredder would be great but I read about people having the compost ready in around 2-3 months and they didn't mention any machine to shred the material.

I hope I can have the drum done and filled up this week

"Thanks for the info mate, I really wanted to know if I could do it with those two things I've got lying around. I haven't got an active pile but I could get some horse manure which I read it could help, although I also read to be very careful with manures because they can carry viruses and stuff so I may give it a miss."

Horse manure is great but I would not use it in a fast pile, I would want it to compost at least 1 year but would not consider less than 6 months. Also has go as adding manure is it will not bring the same things ad a few hand fulls of active compost, unless the horse manure is already actively compost.

snew said:

Horse manure is great but I would not use it in a fast pile, I would want it to compost at least 1 year but would not consider less than 6 months. Also has go as adding manure is it will not bring the same things ad a few hand fulls of active compost, unless the horse manure is already actively compost.

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I didn't know you had to leave the horse manure for so long, I know it has been in a pile for awhile but not sure for how long so maybe next time
About the active compost, I haven't got any other compost pile/tumbler, this will be the first try so can't add any.

I've never had a quick pile I turn mine once a week, once a month just depends how I feel. I try to keep it wet but what makes my pile is adding vegetative matter regularly. I have a 3 bin pile, every week I add coffee grounds I get from a bagel shop and generally have a 5 gallon bucket of scraps layered with compost. I put this on the new pile cover from the old with 2-3" and make sure its wet. I have access to horse manure this year and will add about 10-15 gallon with the leaf fall in a couple of months.
I do take 6-12 maybe 18 months to use this compost but its great compost I don't rack my brain about adding this and that, just what I have available. If you really want to have fast compost consider Bokashi. Wetdog posted some great stuff on it bokashi composting, in combination with vermicomposting which works well.
DON"T MAKE IT HARDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.

Just make sure you have enough carbon and oxygen. Old soil-less peat based mixes make a great source of carbon for people who can't access straw, leaf or woodchip(and woodchip takes a long time to decompose)

Turn your pile for oxygen, and make sure you have as much carbon mixed in there as possible. Otherwise your stuff is just fermenting and will offgas Nitrogen and Methane, losing the fertility we're trying to build!

generally speaking adding 2 parts carbon : 1 part nitrogen in volume of composting materials works well.

you can find charts of the carbon ratio of common composting materials online.
ie: Cardboard is 300 parts of C

Your ideal mix is between 15-25 C: 1 N (content wise not volume wise)

Afka said:

generally speaking adding 2 parts carbon : 1 part nitrogen in volume of composting materials works well.

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I've read other rule of thumb estimates that mixing equal parts by volume approximates the ideal C:N range.

Like I said, depends on your source of carbon. You could technically add half a part shredded paper for 1 or 2 parts kitchen waste, or for the same amount of carbon instead of paper, 3 parts of dried leaves.

snew said:

I've never had a quick pile I turn mine once a week, once a month just depends how I feel. I try to keep it wet but what makes my pile is adding vegetative matter regularly. I have a 3 bin pile, every week I add coffee grounds I get from a bagel shop and generally have a 5 gallon bucket of scraps layered with compost. I put this on the new pile cover from the old with 2-3" and make sure its wet. I have access to horse manure this year and will add about 10-15 gallon with the leaf fall in a couple of months.
I do take 6-12 maybe 18 months to use this compost but its great compost I don't rack my brain about adding this and that, just what I have available. If you really want to have fast compost consider Bokashi. Wetdog posted some great stuff on it bokashi composting, in combination with vermicomposting which works well.
DON"T MAKE IT HARDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your experience mate I'll keep going with this idea but I was thinking about adding a drum to my "project" or maybe even a pile to just put all the veg. scraps from the kitchen (and other stuff) without worrying that much about quantities and time. We'll see

I also got 3 worms the other day and I have them in a 5L bottle. I'm gonna try to take care of them and see if they reproduce.

Rrog said:

I've read other rule of thumb estimates that mixing equal parts by volume approximates the ideal C:N range.

Click to expand...

Well, as I understand it the C:N ratio is mainly to compost quickly, if you don't mind waiting a year to have your compost ready you shouldn't worry that much about it.

The numbers should be 3-4 pounds of nitrogen material for every 100 pounds of carbon.