first grow... ive ran into a minor problem... could use some help?

alright guys im having a little difficulty. i wrote this really stoned and its a little long... i do appreciate it if you read it and have any answers to my questions


ive had these things vegging since sept. 18... weve been through a decent amount together, and ive learned alot of shit, alot of carpentry and wiring, lmfao, and how to use central ac insulation, and lots of awesome useful shit. they started out in miracle-gro soil, and the nutes started burning them bad, so i transplanted, which i thought id never do, but it wasnt hard at all, and i kinda felt stupid afterwards haha. but now i am stumped as hell, this problem is way beyond me, they look fine at this moment but i know the problems coming back, so here i am, after lurking for months, finally writing this thread with pictures and all, lmfao.

my setup is in a closet. i dont have temps or humidity, but ill probably pick up a meter next time i go shopping, day after next. im using two econolight 150w hps lights, one of which i remote ballasted and the other im just too lazy, ill do it eventually, lmfao. i also have a 400w metal halide on top of them and for the fuck of it im still running the fluorescent tubes that i started them out with.

im using some relatively average soil i picked up from home depot. i swapped them into it from miracle gro, which was burning them, and they perked right back up within a couple of days, and all the burning they had was completely gone. it was a slight yellowing, and all that was yellow turned green again after transplanting.

the problem im having now is similar, but not the same. the problem then was on any random leaf; now its starting at the bottom and going up, real slowly. also, it hit WAY harder and faster this time, but on less leaves, and it wasnt only yellowing, there were brown holes on some leaves. im almost 100% sure the problem is the ph levels. after beginning to use some bottled water and pruning off the (very badly) burnt leafs, the problem has not spread any more. but i dont wanna continue using bottled water, and even if i do, i need to learn how to check the ph anyways for when i start adding nutes to the plants. i went to home depot and picked up a (shitty) ph checker, it really didnt work too well for me. i need to find something i can use more conveniently. so i guess the first of my questions is: do i need to ph my soil AND my water, or can i just ph my water?


the first picture is the grow room from the top. you can see the 150w hps's and the three big plants, and one stunted one. the smaller of the biggest three (the one in the center) and the smallest seedling (the dying looking one on the left, the dying looking one on the right is my experiment with cloning lol) were both started by a friend at his house and kept under a 60w incandescent(!!) bulb. when i first saw them they were in a horribly sorry state and i knew i had to save them. the bigger one was in worse shape initially; they were both about an inch tall but the bigger one still had not shed the seed and just plain looked diseased. i didnt think it would make it, but this plant has surprised me alot since the one i thought would die is actually doing better than the other one, hah.

the next three pictures are those two plants, the first two being the same one. another question i have is, the smaller dying one, its still alive. its been living, but it hasnt grown at all in weeks. even if you guys tell me to kill it imma keep it, haha, til it dies. what im wondering is, is there anything i can add to it to see if i cant make it grow? or should i just have more patience with it? have you seen this before and has the plant bounced back, basically? i mean, its been under alot of stress in its wee little life, haha.









now, about my babies. these are the much larger ones, the older ones, and the ones with the real ph problems, although i know when those first two get bigger itll come up too, and i know it might be stunting the smaller dying one. the first one is my biggest, and the second is the middle sized plant out of the three biggest. although i think the ph problem made the two biggest about even, with the amount of leaves i had to pick off the bigger one, lmfao. also, the leaves you see in the center of the pot were the dying ones, thats almost exactly how they looked when i picked them off the tree.













so yeah guys i guess this ph thing has me really stumped. i mean, i understand the basics of it, and i remember doing it in school. i know how to test and all but like, ph up and down is pretty strong for a gallon of water, at least the ones ive seen for like 10,000 gallon pools lmfao, it changes the ph wildly with even the smallest amounts, that or the ph tester sucked, which it did, so i returned it, lmfao.

so, how should i go about dealing with this ph issue? im on a relatively tight budget... its not crazy but i cant be buying like, $120 sensors and all, and im not willing to invest in that yet anyways. i wanna keep it as simple as possible for now.


also, are there any nutrients i should be using up at this point? or should i deal with the ph problem first? or should i deal with both at the same time?

ive read that bloodmeal is good, should i just pick up the kind they have at homedepot? and in what dosages should i use it? like 1/4 of the label at first and then slowly up??


you guys dont know how much i appreciate it if youve seriously sat here and read this whole thing, lol. any help is greatly appreciated!

alright... now ive read that nitrogen deficiencies start at the tips and work their way back on older foliage. could that possibly be the problem?

in which case, the bloodmeal would help, right?

but should i add anything else, since the bloodmeal is like, 12-0-0?

dude your set up is wack, your plants are growing all funky because of the multiple light sources put them closer to gether and a little higher if you need to so the plant grows up for the most part. That one in the middle is probably just burning the lower part of the plant. you need the temp and humid as a basic or you never gona know when you need fans and shit. you can look on the back of soils at home depot and the best ones will have like.5-0-0 or something very low nutrients, in vest in some basic nutrients and superthrive, check this page out https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/122492-seedsman-seeds-purple-bud.html#post1506436 .

i also have a 400w mh on top of them. i dont understand how this could be causing problems though, since as far as ive read more light can only help them, and its definitely not heat burning, the high temps cant go over 80 degrees, im comfortable when im smoking and staring into my closet with the door nearly closed. if anything, i can remove the fluoros and remote ballast and lift the other 150w hps, but i doubt thats the problem? im only keeping it down there to try to keep them as close as possible to a light source without heat. im not worried about making them tall. i want some nice bushy ass trees

(as you can see ive been tying them down in order to try and achieve that)


i mean, it seriously looks more like a ph/nutrient related problem.

ok ive got some more pictures so you can better see the light setup.





and the problem theyve been having looks something like this (its slowly coming back)


i have some more pics of the problems on a couple other leaves, its still pretty restrained and definitely not what it was, ill have them up in a few when photobucket decides to finish uploading -.-

alright guys here are some more pics of the problems. i shouldve taken more when i was first having the problems and it was bad but seriously after all the bs ive dealt with (like the miracle-gro problem), and figuring it out on my own for so long, i thought i could deal with this alone, lol. id much rather have the advice of the experts (or at least those with more experience than me lmfao)


the first picture is how the problem begins. the next picture is how it progresses, although usually it is holes in the leaves and not on the tips, but it does burn the tips brown, too. the third picture, im not quite sure if its related to this, but ive only just noticed it there. somethings "eaten" part of this leaf? i think its just burnt off from this problem thats been burning all my leaves -.-









once more guys, the help is appreciated very muchly, im quite desperate to figure out how to deal with this and progress. i mean, before this burning, i was already experimenting with cloning! lmfao, a week ago, i was planning on buying rooting hormone, not ph up and down when i go shopping tomorrow -.-

but im sure the patience will pay off, and im sure ill be doing this for a while. im seriously having aloooooot of fun with this

Ok, I think it may be as simple as left over nutrients around the root ball from when you transplanted them. Before randomly changing a bunch of stuff that may cause bigger problems, I would flush them well with correct PH water. Flush them several times until you are sure you have eliminated the leftover nutrients from the root ball. Some of those soils like MG are time release and can be a real bugger to overcome once that damage is done.

hmmm good enough logic, i think you might be right tommy...

so before i start worrying about ph, do you think i should get some more quality soil, and transplant them again, maybe into bigger pots, and paying a little more attention to cleaning the root balls? i can continue watering with this bottled water for now, its slightly less than 7 when i ph tested it and my tap water was a little over 8 o.o and the cl/br test was off the chart on my tap water, hahahaha. that craps nasty!


i want them to be around 3 ft tallish when theyre fully flowered, im doing lst in a spiral around the pot, so how big do you think my pots should be to support these root systems? lol i was shocked at how big the root systems had gotten when i transplanted them, and then i understood why its necessary to do so!

also, ive seen "root stimulating" transplanting solution, is that crap any good?

one more thing - whats a good soil to get? like, if im buying a premixed soil, whats the best shit i can get? and should i pick up bloodmeal too? and if i get bloodmeal, should i get bonemeal too? next time i go shopping after tomorrow wont be for a couple weeks so i wanna grab everything at once. if there are any other chems/ferts i can get, lemme know, please.

and the next time i go shopping, if i have everything else and dont have more problems (which is doubtful but i can hope!), i will be able to pick up one of them fancy digital ph/ppm checkers

mate, i dont even think its a nute problem.

you have a 400w MH, and two 150W hps, And a Flo running.

thats about 850w running in a closet, which only 2 plants are using.
that is complete overkill mate, im surprised they've made it this far.

my grow space is about the same size, and it runs at 30C (87F) in the day, and about 84F at night, and mine is air cooled, and has vents to outside.

im gonna take a stab in the dark and say your space is sitting at about 100F.

kill the 2 150w hps, kill the flow...all you need is a 400w MH for this size a grow, in this size a space.

im no expert. but please trust me on this.

no trust me, its way colder in there, im thinking it might be TOO cold sometimes in the dark period, im not sure though, gotta get a thermometer.

it was INSANELY hot at the beginning but i had put the lights in individually over a two week time period, and within 3 days of having them all up my room was burning so i spliced my central a/c and made an exhaust from it leading into my closet. ill post pics in a bit, im working on ballasting the other 150hps and ill have pics up when im done with it all

dude, your plants would show you if it were too cold in the dark period and your plants aren't showing the right signs for it being too cool in dark, also you are in soil so you dont need to adjust your pH at all, those that say you do in soil are idiots, if you ph correct your water to put in soil your doing more damage, just use ordinary tap water with correct nutes added.

are your plants growing away from that light in the middle is it hot is the heat pushing em away and burning em get rid of them lil hps and lower that mh so its like 16 inches away just my observation and maybe get a conversion bulb to put in that mh for when you flower

well after seeing how much chlorine and shit is in my tap, im not too interested in using it anyways. i suppose ill keep using the water from those several gallon bottles they sell at home depot? been using it almost a week and its less than 1/4th gone and at around $7/bottle thats not such a bad investment, i suppose. tastes better than tap, anyways, so im sure the plants appreciate it too, haha.

im not too scared about the cold during the dark period, i know its not negatively affecting my plants (as of yet), its just something ive been keeping in the back of my head in case some kind of frosting issue were to come up

anyways here are the pictures, the lights and my ac duct












also the plants are growing away from the light which was in the middle just because im training them that way, if you look closely you can see the paperclips im using to hold the stem down

fill a jug with tap water let it sit for 24 hrs. the clorine will evaporate off just use the mh and ditch the rest

i had several jugs that i would leave out full for several days at a time. ive read that i dont know how many times. its still not the same as just using the cleaner water, and it doesnt bother me much anyways.


but yeah when i reach flower ill definitely look into a conversion bulb, haha i hadnt even thought of that yet

rain water is probably best, but tap is better (for plants not for people lol). You just have to let the water sit out for 2 days or so to let the chlorine escape. Tap water has trace minerals in it that are good for your plants.
Bottled water is a joke! Hundreds of animals drink from the same (untreated) water source daily and none of them get sick. People drink treated & bottled water and we are all sick all the time??? Go figure. Sorry for the rant lol
Anyway you MUST have a PH meter. You really can't diagnose any plant problems if you dont know the Ph. Here's the one I got. Its inexpensive easy and actually works well. Milwaukee pH600 Digital pH Tester/Meter/Pool/SPA/Water - eBay (item 250301963384 end time Oct-29-08 20:08:40 PDT)
Check the Ph of the water you are useing. Then run some of it through your soil, and check the PH of the runoff. Then adjust your water accordingly. Good luck and happy growing.

definitely got a bookmark on that ph meter, sweeeeeet

eh like i said my tap water tested over 8.2 ph and off the scale with chlorine... tested the water that sat out for over a day and the chlorine was less but still there and the ph was still too high, id just rather use the clean bottled water, the ph is just under 7 and theres no chlorine at all so its perfect lmfao


what should the ph of the water be before its in the soil?

and what should the ph of the run off be?

and also, the ph up and down i bought, way too strong. whats less strong than the stuff made for pools? perhaps something i can buy from my grocery store? and in what amounts should i use it in, say, x amount of whatever in order to drop y points of ph?

if your ph is over 7, you can use lemon juice to bring it down, its an organic alternative to using ph down. just make sure to let the water sit for a day before giving it your plants

if i was u..id take out all those lights but the 400W m.h....unless u hang those other lights over the top too..to me it looks like u never rotated ur plants!..that thing was growing fuuuuuucked!

but how much lemon juice for how much water say, to raise one point of ph?

and if its less than 7, what can i use to bring it up?

and seriously, should i take out the two 150s? i thought more light was better as long as you had the temps in check...?