Help - Im about to lose another batch of rooted clones

UPDATE

Hey Everyone,

I was tipped off by a couple of guys over at THCFarmer that what I may be experiencing is the toxic effects of the low grade PVC used in many tents starting in 2008. Hydrohut was the only company to acknowledge the problem however many speculate that nearly all grow tent material comes from a single plant in China, meaning this could affect more brands than Hydrohut.

Additional research into the topic corroborated this conclusion. The below thread contains images which exactly match the symptoms I experienced, and the grower and I are using the same tent (visual match)

Hydrohut Problems? - Page 7 - The Garden's Cure

I acquired this tent second hand through craigs list, so this is not a general alarm that new retail tents have the same problem. Just be careful, and if something like this is happening to you, now you know why.

What type of medium; soil or hydro?
Soil
What brand and type of soil?
Aurora Innovations Roots Organics
Indoors or outdoors?
Indoors
What strain?
4x Strawberry Diesel, 3x LA Confidential, 2x CVK, 1x Blue Dream
How old are the plants?
2-3 Weeks since cutting taken, all plants were well rooted when transplanted
What type of lights and how many watts?
600w HPS Eye Hortilux
How far from the lights?
5 Feet
What is your watering frequency and source of water?
RO with MagiCal adjusted to 6.5, every other day
What, how much and when was it fed? NPK?
Not fed with nutes
What is the medium/runoff pH and PPM if in hydro?
NA
What are the temps and humidity in the room?
73/82F 55% Humidity
What size pots?
1 Gallon
Any bugs? Look real close.
Small Case of Spider Mites - Sprayed w/ Monterey Garden Insect Spray 2 days ago to control.
Any other pertinent info?
This is my second batch which have had this yellowing issue. Last batch I thought it was PH problems of the soil so I heavily flushed them. Leaf color never recovered and eventually the entire plants went yellow. The yellowing you see has happened over the course of the last 3 days, since transplanting clones in red party cups into these 1gal containers of Roots Organics.

The yellowing progresses from the base of the leaf towards the edges. I thought the 600 may have been a bit much for the plants so i some paper towels just below the hood to diffuse the light. Im showing this problem on almost all of the plants. Ive done fairly exhaustive research into this and the only thing that looks similar in terms of symptoms is an iron def. but I think it is progressing far too fast to be an iron def.

It seems like the roots just arnt taking any nutrients from the soil, yet everyone I talk to says Roots Organics soil is legit.

I really need some help with this one guys, Ive seen other people with similar symptoms in other threads but there has never been an established cause or solution. HELP!

not N. that would start on the lower leaves.
maybe the ph of your water is off?

you might try non-organic nutes. Organic nutes typically require microbes in the soil to break them down into something the plant can use. Your soil might not be mature enough to break down the organics in time for the plants. Just an idea though, could be so many things, and I'm no cloning expert.

Thanks guys - After reading that Roots is somewhat light on the nutes I ran a soil nutrient test to see where it stands. According to the test kit the NPK is fine and reads high for all 3.

Tiny - I ph my water to 6.5 every time prior to using it and calibrate my meter every watering so I doubt that is it. Im not making my own RO so I suppose it could be something else in the water but the source is 2x carbon filtered, RO, UV sterilized.

Ive got some non-organic nutes that I can add, but this dosnt match any deficiency that I can identify.

I hit my last batch with a 50% veg nute mix after flushing, they didnt respond to it, and eventually died.

Did you go from fluorescent lights to HID just recently?

you give ur plants calmag every watering? you only suppose to give them epsom salts(mag)once or twice the whole lifecycle. maybe flush the salts out from magical and mix some blood meal(nitrogen)

MeJuana - The clones were under low wattage Flouro's when i got them. I opted to leave them so far from the 600w HPS because of concerns that the transition to such high wattage may be a problem. I have a small 2' 4 bulb t5 rig that I could swap in if necessary.

Carokann - Ive only given these plants calmag once, at the recommended concentration (havnt had them long). Doubt its salt build up, they were transplanted into fresh soil from the small cups about a week ago.

Not sure why you would send water through UV and RO... Usually an RO/DI filter that's properly maintained, pressurized, and at the proper temp, will produce 0 tds water. there is literally nothing in it. It's usually more pure than distilling because the components used after filtering (pipes and storage containers) don't typically contain metals (this of course means that you or your source of RO/DI water needs proper food grade containers and tubing).

Water this pure can cause problems. Recently the WHO put out a report on the dangers of drinking RO/DI water as a primary source because it lacks mineral and electrolytes. If you check your local tap water breakdown (you can get it from your water company), it's full of stuff. Iron, mag, phosphates, nitrates, a whole slew of trace elements. These are all things you can easily become deficient in using super pure water. At the very least you will need to add iron, mag, and calcium. You will also want to put in slightly more n and k because these are also nutrients that are often found in abundance in municipal water supplies. Long story short, pure water is a great point to start from if you want real control, but to reap benefits from it you'll need to become somewhat of a sofa-expert on water chemistry and micro-nutrients. I think for a lot of people just using tap water with aquarium chlorine/ammonia remover is going to be your best bet.

looks like nut lockout, did you start nuts too soon?

Try to transplate into larger pots ! marijuana out grows 1 gallon pots in 2 weeks 2 gallon pots in 3 to 4 weeks. Your best best is a 5 or 7 gallon im useing a 10 gallon pot ! after i transplated from a one gallon pot at 2 weeks of age my babys are growing !

whietiger88101 said:

Try to transplate into larger pots ! marijuana out grows 1 gallon pots in 2 weeks 2 gallon pots in 3 to 4 weeks. Your best best is a 5 or 7 gallon im useing a 10 gallon pot ! after i transplated from a one gallon pot at 2 weeks of age my babys are growing !

Click to expand...

Hey I just read about 4 or 5 of this guys posts and his answer for everything is to re-pot your plants which he is COMPLETELY WRONG!!!

Do you ever give them a full watering, when you water? Looks to me like they only get watered lightly, towards the center, and that's a problem. If the edges of the soil never get wet, the roots won't be able to spread to those areas, which means they are only living off the nutes that are contained in the center section of the pot, while the rest of the soil remains unaccessible to them. They would deplete that small area rather quickly, then go deficient, which seems to fit your scenario. Being that I couldn't find anything else wrong with your setup, I'd say that they just need watered more thoroughly, when you water, making sure to wet the entire pot, not just the center.

Does that sound like a possibility?

Jawbrodt - Yes, that sounds like a possibility. Im going to give them a light dose of nutes, and water more thoroughly this evening. Hell maybe ill feed em at lunch and take some additional pictures tonight to see if there has been any improvement.

Thanks for all the input guys.

It's definitely a nute deficiency. I'm not sure which but you said iron earlier so I would try addressing that. I know tap water usually has at least a little iron in it. Do you know if your friends who say the soil you're using is good use tap water or not?

id check out something like clonex rooting solution thats what i use and get roots and no def within a week

Alright I just hit them with a 50% Veg nutrient solution. 6.5ph 550ppm going in.

Runoff was 6.2ph 1570ppm.

Updated pics to come this evening. Hopefully with signs of improvement.

^It'd also be a good idea to foliar feed them til they are recovering, noticeably. It's many times more efficient than root feeding. I also agree that it looks like an iron deficiency, so make sure you use a fert with that, if you choose to go with foliar. Now, let's just hope that the 50% mix wasn't too much for the little ladies. Myself, I would've went with 25%, but being that they're already deficient, they should be okay.

ya you might burn them with that much, I would foliar feed with a bloomer at quarter strength. It promotes root growth

it really looks like a basic N def / i would follar feed with a light feed less than 400 ppm of some veg mix or sea weed or fish emiuilsion