Kellogg's organic granular

a few months ago i noticed a new line of ferts by Kellogg at Home Depot. my outdoor grow wasn't ready yet so i figured id try it later. i've also been following the new tga soil and "shot pack" (which are just becoming available, but not in AZ yet) and this seems to be very comparable to their shot pack- just add worm castings. AND it's only $8 for a 4 lb bag! they have three different mixes but they're all pretty similar. anyway i picked up a bag and wanted to share this good find and get your thoughtsView attachment 2231885View attachment 2231886

New TGA soil??? Subcool finally bagged his super soil and is selling it..I see If the Kellogs has the same ingrediants as TGA I'd just buy the cheaper of the two..

yeah he talks about it on the weed nerd. i guess technically its not him its his buddy dioxide. dioxide made subs super soil then had it lab tested to see what was lacking and what was excessive, then re formulated it and they are running a side by side test. 1 with roots organics and conventional supersoil made with roots organics vs. new tga soil and new super soil made from the tga soil. he said they can't call it "supersoil" because that name is already owned by Scott's lawn products, but that it's slowly becoming available mostly in oregon i thnk.

anyway, yeah man thats what i was thinking. this will be cheaper still even when the tga is available. I will be the guinea pig, but looking at the ingredients on the side i think it would be hard to mess this up

Redbird1223 said:

a few months ago i noticed a new line of ferts by Kellogg at Home Depot. my outdoor grow wasn't ready yet so i figured id try it later. i've also been following the new tga soil and "shot pack" (which are just becoming available, but not in AZ yet) and this seems to be very comparable to their shot pack- just add worm castings. AND it's only $8 for a 4 lb bag! they have three different mixes but they're all pretty similar. anyway i picked up a bag and wanted to share this good find and get your thoughtsView attachment 2231885View attachment 2231886

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That line of ferts actually looks half decent.... 4-6-4 with a good mix of bacterial / biological innoculants. I have used kelloggs soil in my grows in the past and have always had good results (they've been around forever)..

My beds are already innoculated and planted, but I would definitely have given this a shot in one of them if I had known about it earlier Thanks for the find.

Redbird1223 said:

yeah he talks about it on the weed nerd. i guess technically its not him its his buddy dioxide. dioxide made subs super soil then had it lab tested to see what was lacking and what was excessive, then re formulated it and they are running a side by side test. 1 with roots organics and conventional supersoil made with roots organics vs. new tga soil and new super soil made from the tga soil. he said they can't call it "supersoil" because that name is already owned by Scott's lawn products, but that it's slowly becoming available mostly in oregon i thnk.

anyway, yeah man thats what i was thinking. this will be cheaper still even when the tga is available. I will be the guinea pig, but looking at the ingredients on the side i think it would be hard to mess this up

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I dont do soil or organics but I will definitely buy Sub's super soil when I'm ready to give them a run.. I know my dude Birdgym has made it himself with the Roots Organic soil but I just dont have the time with the job and family so I would definitely buy his soil.. I'm sure you will see it out here in AZ Hydro Depot, Gonzo grow, and Gro-Town are companies from California they came here to cash in so a lot of their inventory comes from their warehouses in Cali.

Be careful with super soils ! May be hot for young plants and certain strains..

Do not over do it, as hacker said, soil that is hot can be detrimental. Some super soil can actually be so hot that is cause a prolonged harvest times + the production of male flowers....

you don't HAVE TO make a super soil with it. I was just pointing out its components are very close to what is used in super soil, and all in one bag, and for an affordable price at a store near you.

I know the kelloggs paio plus has ewc in it already

thats pretty sweet. i used their "amend" blend that has gypsum on a tree i planted that eventually died, but when i dug it out to plant a new tree, i noticed the soil was much better. I mostly just use the garden soil because its really cheap ($8 for 3 cu ft) in my gardens outside and after about a year the crappy AZ soil and kellogg soil turns into a nice black sandy dirt. not so great in containers though

here's the link to the TGA soil http://tgasupersoil.com/

Still confused why everyone isn't using Sunshine Advanced. It has no soil and has the Mykos built right in. Good stuff.

Lucius Vorenus said:

Still confused why everyone isn't using Sunshine Advanced. It has no soil and has the Mykos built right in. Good stuff.

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But only has 2 weeks of plant food!!! Thats why.

Kellogg's has been around for decades(70+ years ago started in orange county, ca). I heard sometime in the past 2 years or so this company was bought by SunGro Horticulture in of British Columbia.
Sun Gro makes the Sunshine Mixes, Black Gold Potting Soils and amendments, etc. They're the largest packer of soils in North America. Good stuff from what I have seen.
High quality standards and ingredients.

How subcool can call it his soil mix, when he has people using store bought soil as a base? All the guy is doing is adding a few amendments to somebody else mix and calling it his own. Laughable at best.
You make his "supersoil mix", then you let it set for 30 days(just like any organic mix).....at transplant, fill 30-50% of your pot with the supersoil, filling the remainder with base soil (Roots organics, Fox Farm Ocean Forest, etc. wtf?)

Once you learn about organics his mix becomes even more funny. What I find unbelievable is the amount of people that rant about and buy into this junk.

Go buy some Canadian sphagnum peat moss. The best stuff is readily available and very cheap. Most hardware here in AZ have the Premier brand, wallfart has it as well its called greensmix. After that, I would go with something like this:

40% peat
30% perlite or rice hulls(farm store a lot cheaper)
30% EWC (make sure its high quality, not cardboard and newspaper fed worms.)

Once you got that mixed, all of the other amendments would be added based on the total volume on hand of soil\fert. I prefer the Espoma plant tone over the kellogg but both are good(tomato, citrus or vegetable tone).

To each 1 c.f. of potting soil I add the following:
4 - 5 cups of Canadian Glacial Rock Dust or Azomite
1.5 cups of a mix I make up that consists of equal parts of kelp, neem and crab meal.

Yours would look like per 1 c.f
3-5 cups of mineral Glacial rock dust or azomite
1-3 cups kellog or espoma plant tone

Water on most days with a weekly application of some botanical tea - Comfrey, Yarrow, dandelion.
Nutrient teas are welcome as well, kelp, alfalfa, etc..
Actively aerated compost tea(ACT\AACT) once in veg, once at the beginning of flower for your microbes

Youll be more then rocking and on your way as long as you got your light and air circulation taking care of.

Lucius Vorenus said:

Still confused why everyone isn't using Sunshine Advanced. It has no soil and has the Mykos built right in. Good stuff.

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1337hacker said:

But only has 2 weeks of plant food!!! Thats why.

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Im still confused why people are using more expensive, inferior products to what they could make themselves for pennies on the dollar.

Hope to have helped some.

DG

1337hacker said:

But only has 2 weeks of plant food!!! Thats why.

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It actualyl has no weeks of plant food. Which is perfect. Those ones that have a lot of precharge can be hell on young plants if you happen to feed them too soon.

Sunshine Advanced #4 IMO, is your friend. Thats the yellow and black bag. Not to be confused with Sunshine Mix #4 in the black and blue bag.

Lucius Vorenus said:

It actualyl has no weeks of plant food. Which is perfect. Those ones that have a lot of precharge can be hell on young plants if you happen to feed them too soon.

Sunshine Advanced #4 IMO, is your friend. Thats the yellow and black bag. Not to be confused with Sunshine Mix #4 in the black and blue bag.

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Its good stuff for sure, depending on your need for a soil-less medium (hydroponic\bottle nutrients *yuck*). I would not get hooked on using it when it cost almost 50 dollars per 3 c.f. compressed of the stuff. You can save yourself a grip of money and get a fundamental understanding of what each ingredient is and what it is being used for.

Sunshine Advanced #4:
Ph balanced (PH is not a concern in a properly mixed organic soil mix. Soilless =precursor to bottled nutes galore )

organic wetting agent *2oz aloe vera per gallon of water or yucca root* (One advantage to the Pro-Mix and Sunshine Mixes is that they arrive partially hydrated and they use an organic version of Yucca root powder as the wetting agent at the commercial level then aloe vera juice)

mycorhizzae(spray your soil with an aact mix (Take 1-2 cup worm castings 1-2tbsp of molasses and 5 gallons water. Stir it over night and apply to soil. Bubble the water with a airstone for better results higher fungal\bacteria ratio)

no burn formula (uh.. yeah theres nothing in it.)

peat moss (speaks for itself very cheap 9 bucks at home depot for 2.2cf compressed 4 c.f uncompressed)

coco (again speaks for itself grab a few bricks loews or hd. mix it to your ratio.)

perlite (speaks for itself)

So lets see here
2.2 c.f.(4 uncompressed) bale of peat 10 bucks
coco (No need for me, but if you need it add whatever)
Aloe Vera juice for a wetting agent contains higher levels of carbohydrates, amino acids, enzymes, magnesium, potassium, phosphorus than molasses. It also contains much higher levels of saponin than yucca extract. a gallon of it @ health food stores is 8 bucks get it without sodium benzoate. Bad for you and your plants.
Perlite one or more of the following: Perlite, Pumice and Vermiculite or rice hulls. I prefer rice hulls from the farm store 8 bucks for a big 55lb bag but perlite can be had for a bit more)

$10 for peat moss
$8 for aloe vera ( add it to the aact for a one to punch in your soil)
$8 bucks for rice hulls
Some water, worm castings and molasses for your mycorhizzae soak or spray

So for around 30 bucks you can have a complete *soiless* mix, about 4-6 cf depending on your aeration needs. Again soiless the prelude to bottle nutrients and dependance rather then sustainability. Been then done that for many many years now. Only use organic methods now. Got off the bottle a long time ago and have honed organics thanks to a little reading and learning some from really good people and sources.

To avoid the bottle nutrient regime and save yourself hundreds and thousands of dollars. Add some earthworm castings @ 25% to your soiless mix. food mix 1-2 cups(Espoma, kellog or your own mix such) some minerals azomite or glacial rock dust. Let it sit for a few weeks and you have a FAR MORE superior soil mix to any store bought stuff you can come by like fox farm, roots, etc. Goes for any of their bottled products for their lifeless, dead, mediums with no food or microbe activity that you have to sit there and soak with hundreds of dollars in nutes to get it going with synthetic chemical nutrients salts mostly derived from the petrol chemical industry. Never will it compare to organically grown cannabis\hemp. Just like all the hydroponically grown vegetables and fruit that they cant market because they cant get any smell or flavor into them comparatively to organically grown. Cannabis however is a flower and like all flowers they look great when grown in hydroponics, but they have have that hydroponic smell or flavor. Hence why they have all kinds of flavoring and flushing products that are high in thiols and sugars( thiols smelling compunds are found in skunks, onions, garlic, and funny enough cannabis hence the smell variation) just to hope your not getting any of that crap in your body.

Be safe
DG

DesertGuru said:

Its good stuff for sure, depending on your need for a soil-less medium (hydroponic\bottle nutrients *yuck*). I would not get hooked on using it when it cost almost 50 dollars per 3 c.f. compressed of the stuff. You can save yourself a grip of money and get a fundamental understanding of what each ingredient is and what it is being used for.

Sunshine Advanced #4:
Ph balanced (PH is not a concern in a properly mixed organic soil mix. Soilless =precursor to bottled nutes galore )

organic wetting agent *2oz aloe vera per gallon of water or yucca root* (One advantage to the Pro-Mix and Sunshine Mixes is that they arrive partially hydrated and they use an organic version of Yucca root powder as the wetting agent at the commercial level then aloe vera juice)

mycorhizzae(spray your soil with an aact mix (Take 1-2 cup worm castings 1-2tbsp of molasses and 5 gallons water. Stir it over night and apply to soil. Bubble the water with a airstone for better results higher fungal\bacteria ratio)

no burn formula (uh.. yeah theres nothing in it.)

peat moss (speaks for itself very cheap 9 bucks at home depot for 2.2cf compressed 4 c.f uncompressed)

coco (again speaks for itself grab a few bricks loews or hd. mix it to your ratio.)

perlite (speaks for itself)

So lets see here
2.2 c.f.(4 uncompressed) bale of peat 10 bucks
coco (No need for me, but if you need it add whatever)
Aloe Vera juice for a wetting agent contains higher levels of carbohydrates, amino acids, enzymes, magnesium, potassium, phosphorus than molasses. It also contains much higher levels of saponin than yucca extract. a gallon of it @ health food stores is 8 bucks get it without sodium benzoate. Bad for you and your plants.
Perlite one or more of the following: Perlite, Pumice and Vermiculite or rice hulls. I prefer rice hulls from the farm store 8 bucks for a big 55lb bag but perlite can be had for a bit more)

$10 for peat moss
$8 for aloe vera ( add it to the aact for a one to punch in your soil)
$8 bucks for rice hulls
Some water, worm castings and molasses for your mycorhizzae soak or spray

So for around 30 bucks you can have a complete *soiless* mix, about 4-6 cf depending on your aeration needs. Again soiless the prelude to bottle nutrients and dependance rather then sustainability. Been then done that for many many years now. Only use organic methods now. Got off the bottle a long time ago and have honed organics thanks to a little reading and learning some from really good people and sources.

To avoid the bottle nutrient regime and save yourself hundreds and thousands of dollars. Add some earthworm castings @ 25% to your soiless mix. food mix 1-2 cups(Espoma, kellog or your own mix such) some minerals azomite or glacial rock dust. Let it sit for a few weeks and you have a FAR MORE superior soil mix to any store bought stuff you can come by like fox farm, roots, etc. Goes for any of their bottled products for their lifeless, dead, mediums with no food or microbe activity that you have to sit there and soak with hundreds of dollars in nutes to get it going with synthetic chemical nutrients salts mostly derived from the petrol chemical industry. Never will it compare to organically grown cannabis\hemp. Just like all the hydroponically grown vegetables and fruit that they cant market because they cant get any smell or flavor into them comparatively to organically grown. Cannabis however is a flower and like all flowers they look great when grown in hydroponics, but they have have that hydroponic smell or flavor. Hence why they have all kinds of flavoring and flushing products that are high in thiols and sugars( thiols smelling compunds are found in skunks, onions, garlic, and funny enough cannabis hence the smell variation) just to hope your not getting any of that crap in your body.

Be safe
DG

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I like your style buddy.. Yah fuck the overpriced industry BS. This plant figured out how to grow itself for millions of years before we came around...

I run 4'x5'x1' beds under each light... and no way was I going to fill them with ffof, sunshine or ro (20 cuft per bed lol)... that being said, watering with 15 gallons of water in each bed, every 5 days, is a lot of money on nutes.. I am currently running no-till, and want to top dress one of them before my next run... Any recommendations? I appreciate someone with some damn knowledge finally stepping into the mix here. I plan on supplementing my watering schedules with humic acid/EJ/kelp but would love to hear if you have a top dress that could save me some cashola on these things.. thanks

Everything is pretty much information.. You can get as simple or as crazy complex as you want. I like simple and cost effective. I learned growing (vegetables, herbs) from family when I was young. Internet and friends in Oregon have taken my knowledge further.

Soil - If you look at what comprises any soil in the world at is very essense it is rock dust or crushed rocks, composted/rotting organic material (Dead animals, plants materials, turtles, humans lol, worms) nothing more. Anything else in the soil is considered an amendment.
So if you go to Africa and grow or decide to live in Alabama, you will understand what is going on.
two most important things:
First, the most important dire part of your soil is your compost (humus source). Good compost, thermal compost that went through a hot/cooking period or HIGH quality earth worm castings. This is the cornerstone of organic growing, again your humus source. The compost is a pile of life, and if you can make your own it's better . If you get your compost source correct you will have little to worry about. Check craigslist to source some real worm castings if need be. Grow shops lol.. yeah. Your new shopping place will become farm/feed stores.

Basically the composted organic matter has fulvic and humic acids in it. These acids control water ph among other things. If the science did not work that way and food growers had to tend to their crops like cannabis growers have been fooled into, they would be paying 10x as much for any given fruit or vegetable.

After that, the second most important and crucial part is soil preparation. You mix your food mix, like Espoma Plant Tone or any other high quality organic food, with your base soil mix. My soil mix is: 40% peat, 30% rice hulls and 30% homemade ewc. Then this mix is set for anywhere from a few weeks to a couple months; in organics, this period is called nutrient cycling. This is important for the microbial activity in the soil, like bacterias, fungi, and so on with the food chain. Generations of these microbes come and go. The key is that the nutrients never leave, staying in one form or another and waiting to get gobbled up by your plants.
Once you take care of those two components you're good to go. The microbes in the soil work with the roots the plants exudative acids. They send out chemicals that signal the right microbes to the mycorrhiza area to fulfill the plants nutrient desires. Its the system that outdates me, you and the rest of the nutrient companies.
With new garden beds you need to establish a good, fertile soil structure before you can expect good results with the no-till/mulch method.

You can supplement waterings with whatever you feel your plant needs. Some organic growers will use humic acid to keep the levels high, but ther's no real need if your humus source are covered. Adding a top dress of worm castings after every 2 waterings can get depleted acids back in.

Lol if you filled those beds with fox farm ocean forest again yuck. 17 dollars per 1.5 cf. you need 14 bags for 21 c.f. hmm.. $238 before tax and gas to the hydro store. So lets say you get the nice guy, bend over the barrel hydro store discount. You get them for 15 dollars a bag on bulk $255 for 20 cf.

or... example of 20 c.f. super duper alleyooper ocean sky forest you can make mix

BASE MIX & COMPOST
40% 2 bales (8 c.f.) of premier peat(same makers as sunshine mixes) moss 2.2 cf compressed, 4cf uncompressed from home depot $20
30% 2 bales of rice hulls from the feed store $ less the 20
30% worm castings or thermal compost- free for me. Craigslist has them for cheap 20lbs is 5-20 bucks

FOOD & MINERAL MIX
Espoma plant tone home depot $20 for two 8lb bags
44lb bag of azomite from the hydro store( AIEEEE!!!! LoL atleast you get to look at all the fancy dancy labels and price tags) $40
1 gallon aloe vera juice for a wetting agent+ more benificials $8
hmm...
Add in food mix 1-2 cups of espoma per cf of soil 20cf =20-40 cups
1-5 cups of azomite per cf 20-100 cups

Mix and let it sit for a few weeks. Apply an AACT (Actively Aerated Compost Tea) to the pile. So far better from ocean forest or any other dead anerobic (no oxygen, bad microbes) bagged soil. As for the cost... hmm $128 bucks before tax and gas. If you pay 20 bucks for 20lbs of worm castings. That leaves me .. 110 bucks for 55lbs alfalfa meal, 55lbs kelp meal, a nice bottle of Dynagro Protekt (silica), which is similar to Botanicare Silica Blast, but not watered down to have money made on it, and probably not at the hydro store. Look at real nurseries.

What soil you working with right now? Smart man not going with that stuff lol. I would just topdress it with some earthworm castings and espoma plant tone. Bubble up some aact tea and treat your soil with it for microbes if your working with something half way decent. Don't use chemical salt ferts or bottles it upsets all the microbes and kills them.

I feed the soil and microbes, which feed the plants. Most growers are feeding just the plants roots having to chase ph and hope they get the food the plant needs with a dead lifeless medium.

Good growing

Be safe
DG

This is some good stuff. I agree with you about making your own sunshine mix. But you said it would be about 30$, well I use advanced sunshine mix #4 and I get my 3.3 bales for about 40. I would rather spend the 10$ then have to hunt down each product and the measure and mix it. When you are dealing with a lot of soil this can get messy and laborious. I spend the extra 10$ and don't have to worry about any of that. Its about convenience not about the product being something novel or special. I worked in a plant nursery for many years and we made our own everything even down to the base soil. After mixing so much soil, and filling a soil sterilizer and then mixing and then refilling and then mixing, I am don't want the hassle. That's just me though and that's what fits my modest indoor grow at the moment. In our outdoor we mix our own soil but fuck if I am the one to do it.

This is some good stuff. I agree with you about making your own sunshine mix. But you said it would be about 30$, well I use advanced sunshine mix #4 and I get my 3.3 bales for about 40. I would rather spend the 10$ then have to hunt down each product and the measure and mix it. When you are dealing with a lot of soil this can get messy and laborious. I spend the extra 10$ and don't have to worry about any of that. Its about convenience not about the product being something novel or special. I worked in a plant nursery for many years and we made our own everything even down to the base soil. After mixing so much soil, and filling a soil sterilizer and then mixing and then refilling and then mixing, I am don't want the hassle. That's just me though and that's what fits my modest indoor grow at the moment. In our outdoor we mix our own soil but fuck if I am the one to do it.