Looking for advice. Do you think they are over or underfed? Would you chop?

bigunyun · Oct 11, 2022

I usually fed in the range 500-1000 ppm with 10-30-20. They’re in 7 gal pots in soil. Why’d everything go crispy? Would you chop?

bigunyun · Oct 13, 2022

Either way they look like they're getting close and will probably chop this weekend... I'll try boosting the feed for the clones...

LeastExpectedGrower · Oct 13, 2022

They do look overfed. Super dark green glossy leaves + major clawing & burn. They look close to the end but I'd hold out a couple weeks.

inth3shadowz · Oct 13, 2022

500-1000? I feed around 600 the entire life of my plants in Coco... anything higher and I see burns. So I'd guess you cooked em.

UndyToke · Oct 13, 2022

Looks like Potassium deficiency.

The dark green starting from the bottom of the plant going up, the burn happening from the edges of the leaf, the time it is at in flower, the amount of K you give is very little for a big plant like that in full flowering and your plant is foxtailing hard to combat heat, look at all those calyxes growing on top of one another (Potassium helps in managing heat so when it is deficient, the plant burns up like that in the spots nearer to the light and creates itself a looser bud structure to feel less hot.)

All these signs point me to K deficiency. No way you are burning this big plant with 600-1k ppm in late flower.
Potassium can be locked out because of too many salts in the soil such as calcium and magnesium (the relationship between, cal, mag and K is very important as they are all positive ions and can lock each other up if not in the right ratio.)

In your case though, I believe you are giving very little K to the plant, it doesn't look quite mature yet and might go on for a little while because of the foxtailing.

Gl

Show us how it looks like when you are done harvesting it, I am curious to see!
Your bud looks nice to be honest, terpenes might volatilize though if the plant "burns" up too much.

Also, try organic farming if you are in soil... so much better

(just my opinion of course)

more info :

rkymtnman · Oct 13, 2022

bigunyun said:
will probably chop this weekend

they don't look close to done to me.

PJ Diaz · Oct 13, 2022

500 to 1000 ppm is a pretty wide range. It also doesn't tell us a lot without knowing which ppm scale you're using. It does look like you fried them. It also looks like fans are blasting right towards the buds, so could be some wind burn as well.

LeastExpectedGrower · Oct 13, 2022

Also hard to know without more details about the overall grow. My current plants are happy in late Veg right around 1.5EC (750PPM), but I'm in a 4-day feed/water cycle and in Promix HP (Soilless). I've also had some plants not like 1.5 in those conditions. I've also used a drip-system and fed more down around .7 or .8 happily.

There's definitely nitrogen toxicity involved from the clawing and color. Could there be too little potassium as well? Yeah.

UndyToke · Oct 13, 2022

LeastExpectedGrower said:
Also hard to know without more details about the overall grow. My current plants are happy in late Veg right around 1.5EC (750PPM), but I'm in a 4-day feed/water cycle and in Promix HP (Soilless). I've also had some plants not like 1.5 in those conditions. I've also used a drip-system and fed more down around .7 or .8 happily.

There's definitely nitrogen toxicity involved from the clawing and color. Could there be too little potassium as well? Yeah.

Nute burn doesn't start from the serated edges, it starts from the tip and does not only happen on spots near the light.
Dark green and leaf deformation are also symptoms of K deficiency, they're often symptoms confused with other ailments and sometimes yes they mean N excess, but you know it is Potassium once you see this burn pattern (Potassium is hard to diagnose until you see that precise pattern which differentiates it from other diagnosis.)

1.5ec seems resonable in late veg, but his plant is big and in late flower, off the top of my head K should be about twice as present as Calcium and 4 times the amount of Magnesium, it is probably not when feeding at a 1:3:2 ration at low ppms with a plant this big. It probably wouldn't need a high EC, but what little there is might be locked out by accumulated Cal in the soil. Soilless is easier to get away with over saturation cause the salts end up being flushed.

inth3shadowz · Oct 13, 2022

UndyToke said:
Nute burn doesn't start from the serated edges, it starts from the tip and does not only happen on spots near the light.
Dark green and leaf deformation are also symptoms of K deficiency, they're often symptoms confused with other ailments and sometimes yes they mean N excess, but you know it is Potassium once you see this burn pattern (Potassium is hard to diagnose until you see that precise pattern which differentiates it from other diagnosis.)

1.5ec seems resonable in late veg, but his plant is big and in late flower, off the top of my head K should be about twice as present as Calcium and 4 times the amount of Magnesium, it is probably not when feeding at a 1:3:2 ration at low ppms with a plant this big. It probably wouldn't need a high EC, but what little there is might be locked out by accumulated Cal in the soil. Soilless is easier to get away with over saturation cause the salts end up being flushed.

Without info such as what soil, what exact EC was fed? How often? Blah blah blah, you'd be chasing a ghost trying to diagnose lol. Its like asking a mechanic on the web "my car makes a funny noise, what is it?" without telling any details.

UndyToke · Oct 13, 2022

inth3shadowz said:
Without info such as what soil, what exact EC was fed? How often? Blah blah blah, you'd be chasing a ghost trying to diagnose lol. Its like asking a mechanic on the web "my car makes a funny noise, what is it?" without telling any details.

This one is actually quite evident to my eye, which is why I replied, but hey everybody needs to do their own research.
You don't need to see exact EC or how often it was fed to see the burn pattern and correlate it to the other symptoms mentioned as well as seeing where the plant is at in its grow cycle. I haven't said anything about how to fix his problem, because I don't know his regiment and soil, but I can def tell you this is a K issue. Is it because of a lockout, bad pH, too little feeding, that I can't tell. bongsmilie

bigunyun · Oct 13, 2022

Here’s some more details FWIW. There are 2 plants. They are clones and have already grown the mothers twice before. Mothers actually looked better than these two at harvest, but they weren’t perfect, either. Clones are planted in Miracle Grow organic potting soil in 7 gal fabric pots. I didn’t have to feed in veg at all, as the soil was enough to get them to the flip. They all look healthy at the flip, which was 5 wks. Once on 12\12 I started feeding them Jack’s 10/30/20 salts mixed in tap water. Our water is 90 ppm (US). I don’t correct pH on feeding days as it usually comes out between 6.5 and 7 after mixing fertilizer. I have not dechlorinated my water at all. First three weeks after the flip I fed at 500 ppm. Then once decent size flowers form I increased to 750 for 2 weeks then 850 for a couple weeks and then 1000 once the buds were getting huge. I fed every third watering for the first month then 2/3 the second month. In between was just plain tap water and I usually didn’t pH it.
The smaller plant actually browned faster, although the big one caught up later. They seem fried. Dry, kinda hard and woody almost. But they never had signs of N toxicity. No clawing really or tip burning. The browning started as tiny spots in the middle of fan leaves that extended toward the edges and then browned the tips. I did feed these plants a bit more aggressively than their mothers, as I was hoping to improve the outcome but actually made it worse. I guess that’s maybe the best sign that they’re over fed. That potassium issue sounds compelling but maybe it’s just lockout? I would think they’d be getting enough K with 20. What kind of fertilizer would be better? Would the roots or soil inside the pot show anything?

HydoDan · Oct 13, 2022

Looks like salts built up in the soil.. Did you ever water to runoff?

bigunyun · Oct 13, 2022

HydoDan said:
Looks like salts built up in the soil.. Did you ever water to runoff?

Yes but not that much. Just watered until the soil was saturated and water dripping out the bottom but not much. The bigger the plant the thirstier of course but I probably averaged 1 to no more than 2 gal per plant per watering.

inth3shadowz · Oct 13, 2022

bigunyun said:
Here’s some more details FWIW. There are 2 plants. They are clones and have already grown the mothers twice before. Mothers actually looked better than these two at harvest, but they weren’t perfect, either. Clones are planted in Miracle Grow organic potting soil in 7 gal fabric pots. I didn’t have to feed in veg at all, as the soil was enough to get them to the flip. They all look healthy at the flip, which was 5 wks. Once on 12\12 I started feeding them Jack’s 10/30/20 salts mixed in tap water. Our water is 90 ppm (US). I don’t correct pH on feeding days as it usually comes out between 6.5 and 7 after mixing fertilizer. I have not dechlorinated my water at all. First three weeks after the flip I fed at 500 ppm. Then once decent size flowers form I increased to 750 for 2 weeks then 850 for a couple weeks and then 1000 once the buds were getting huge. I fed every third watering for the first month then 2/3 the second month. In between was just plain tap water and I usually didn’t pH it.
The smaller plant actually browned faster, although the big one caught up later. They seem fried. Dry, kinda hard and woody almost. But they never had signs of N toxicity. No clawing really or tip burning. The browning started as tiny spots in the middle of fan leaves that extended toward the edges and then browned the tips. I did feed these plants a bit more aggressively than their mothers, as I was hoping to improve the outcome but actually made it worse. I guess that’s maybe the best sign that they’re over fed. That potassium issue sounds compelling but maybe it’s just lockout? I would think they’d be getting enough K with 20. What kind of fertilizer would be better? Would the roots or soil inside the pot show anything?

My 2 cents...If you want to do the organic thing...do organic and pot up properly with amended soil so that it turns into a literal water only the whole life cycle. If you wanna push synthetic, do coco, promix blah blah blah. I switched to coco because I can have massive plants in a fairly small container and use less material. Foliage Pro is my favorite all in one nute veg and flower.

PJ Diaz · Oct 13, 2022

inth3shadowz said:
My 2 cents...If you want to do the organic thing...do organic and pot up properly with amended soil so that it turns into a literal water only the whole life cycle. If you wanna push synthetic, do coco, promix blah blah blah. I switched to coco because I can have massive plants in a fairly small container and use less material. Foliage Pro is my favorite all in one nute veg and flower.

In addition to having an excessive N ratio for flowering, FP also seems to be lacking in Cal, Mag, and Sulfur, all of which are super important for cannabis.

inth3shadowz · Oct 14, 2022

PJ Diaz said:
In addition to having an excessive N ratio for flowering, FP also seems to be lacking in Cal, Mag, and Sulfur, all of which are super important for cannabis.

Lol the founder of Dyna Gro specifically formulated it for cannabis.

LeastExpectedGrower · Oct 14, 2022

bigunyun said:
Here’s some more details FWIW. There are 2 plants. They are clones and have already grown the mothers twice before. Mothers actually looked better than these two at harvest, but they weren’t perfect, either. Clones are planted in Miracle Grow organic potting soil in 7 gal fabric pots. I didn’t have to feed in veg at all, as the soil was enough to get them to the flip. They all look healthy at the flip, which was 5 wks. Once on 12\12 I started feeding them Jack’s 10/30/20 salts mixed in tap water. Our water is 90 ppm (US). I don’t correct pH on feeding days as it usually comes out between 6.5 and 7 after mixing fertilizer. I have not dechlorinated my water at all. First three weeks after the flip I fed at 500 ppm. Then once decent size flowers form I increased to 750 for 2 weeks then 850 for a couple weeks and then 1000 once the buds were getting huge. I fed every third watering for the first month then 2/3 the second month. In between was just plain tap water and I usually didn’t pH it.
The smaller plant actually browned faster, although the big one caught up later. They seem fried. Dry, kinda hard and woody almost. But they never had signs of N toxicity. No clawing really or tip burning. The browning started as tiny spots in the middle of fan leaves that extended toward the edges and then browned the tips. I did feed these plants a bit more aggressively than their mothers, as I was hoping to improve the outcome but actually made it worse. I guess that’s maybe the best sign that they’re over fed. That potassium issue sounds compelling but maybe it’s just lockout? I would think they’d be getting enough K with 20. What kind of fertilizer would be better? Would the roots or soil inside the pot show anything?

bigunyun said:
Yes but not that much. Just watered until the soil was saturated and water dripping out the bottom but not much. The bigger the plant the thirstier of course but I probably averaged 1 to no more than 2 gal per plant per watering.

I think you missed some of the signs of Nitrogen toxicity...The color is pretty dark and there's some visible clawing in some of your pictures on the leaves that look less damaged. But that aside, I think you may be the victim of watering/feeding schedule & technique. Feeding at 2EC on a feed-feed-water schedule is really hefty...then from your description of your run-off doesn't really sound like it hits the mark. Watering until it just starts dripping doesn't push out old/excess nutrients.

For instance I'm using Promix in 5g bags and I feed/water at 2 gallons per bag, and that gives me about 1.5 liters of runoff per bag. If I check the EC toward the end of the runoff and feel that it's substantially higher than where I'm generally feeding, I keep going until its closer to my feed EC. I think you've locked 'em out.

PJ Diaz · Oct 14, 2022

inth3shadowz said:
Lol the founder of Dyna Gro specifically formulated it for cannabis.

So, he doesn't mention Foliage Pro once in that video. I'm willing to accept that it's debatable, but it's also generally accepted that cannabis needs much more C, M, & S that what FP has in it. As far as being a "start to finish" nute, sure it will work (most nutes will "work"), but you are going to have excessive N issues. Even DynaGro advertises it as a veg nute. Just an an example, take a look at the label of FB vs MaxiBloom, which is practically an industry standard for flowering cannabis (disclaimer: I don't use Maxi myself). FP has almost no sulfur, and much less Cal and Mag compared with Dyna:

inth3shadowz · Oct 14, 2022

PJ Diaz said:
So, he doesn't mention Foliage Pro once in that video. I'm willing to accept that it's debatable, but it's also generally accepted that cannabis needs much more C, M, & S that what FP has in it. As far as being a "start to finish" nute, sure it will work (most nutes will "work"), but you are going to have excessive N issues. Even DynaGro advertises it as a veg nute. Just an an example, take a look at the label of FB vs MaxiBloom, which is practically an industry standard for flowering cannabis (disclaimer: I don't use Maxi myself). FP has almost no sulfur, and much less Cal and Mag compared with Dyna:

Lmao what video did you watch he literally talks about foliage pro one minute in..you probably just ignored it because you want to be right. Its ok, keep blasting your bloom nutes, my plants stay green til the end.

Looking for advice. Do you think they are over or underfed? Would you chop?

Well-Known Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads