Mycorrihza Myth

So we all know the great things it can do, but i dout ours survives very long with our love for too much phosphates......I see it get's pushed in hydo also, that makes me laugh

Anybody test their soil for myco populations?
Anybody know which strain of myco likes cannabis best?

If I'm able to supply my plants with a ready supply of NPK and trace nutrients, then I really don't care about the beneficial organisms. However, in a large garden that's prone to PH fluctuations, irrigular watering & feedings, the microbes are very useful.

In nature, most plants can't survive without beneficial organisms. When people complain about the damage of acid rain, they really mean the damage the rain did to the organisms, which in turn have a big affect on the plants themselves. However, in small container gardens or in hydro setups, you should be able to supply everything the plants need.

Vindicated said:

If I'm able to supply my plants with a ready supply of NPK and trace nutrients, then I really don't care about the beneficial organisms. However, in a large garden that's prone to PH fluctuations, irrigular watering & feedings, the microbes are very useful.

In nature, most plants can't survive without beneficial organisms. When people complain about the damage of acid rain, they really mean the damage the rain did to the organisms, which in turn have a big affect on the plants themselves. However, in small container gardens or in hydro setups, you should be able to supply everything the plants need.

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Myco, referring to mycorrhiza, not microbes....

Microbes, fungi, call them what you want.

Vindicated said:

If I'm able to supply my plants with a ready supply of NPK and trace nutrients, then I really don't care about the beneficial organisms. However, in a large garden that's prone to PH fluctuations, irrigular watering & feedings, the microbes are very useful.

In nature, most plants can't survive without beneficial organisms. When people complain about the damage of acid rain, they really mean the damage the rain did to the organisms, which in turn have a big affect on the plants themselves. However, in small container gardens or in hydro setups, you should be able to supply everything the plants need.

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You response was kind of rambling bro, not sure what ur point was....

Here's a link to a conversation I had with Robbi, I call him the plant dr. He explains better then I can about the role of beneficial organisms like mycorrhiza.

https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog12407-beneficial-microorganisms.html

My point is that for the average person, who grows a small garden, and feeds their plants regularly, you don't need to waste money inoculating your soil or testing for activity.

a bucket of forest soil in my mix supplies all the myco's i need. i saw a 32 oz jar of myco for 225.00USD........lol.

scroglodyte said:

a bucket of forest soil in my mix supplies all the myco's i need. i saw a 32 oz jar of myco for 225.00USD........lol.

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Damn, I get xtreme Gardening mykos 1lb for 20 bucks............Best way to use is on the roots at transplant only, it's pretty cheap that way....

Vindicated said:

Here's a link to a conversation I had with Robbi, I call him the plant dr. He explains better then I can about the role of beneficial organisms like mycorrhiza.

https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog12407-beneficial-microorganisms.html

My point is that for the average person, who grows a small garden, and feeds their plants regularly, you don't need to waste money inoculating your soil or testing for activity.

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Yes I know their roles thanks....I'm trying to help people cut through the crap of buying "myco products" if they wont survive. Testing for mycos is easy with a microscope....

InfidelUniversity said:

Testing for mycos is easy with a microscope....

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I have a light microscope that magnifies up to 1000x. How would I go about testing for mycorrhiza?

ddimebag said:

I have a light microscope that magnifies up to 1000x. How would I go about testing for mycorrhiza?

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Nice, do your usual thing with set feeding program. For test plant inoculate during planting and transplanting. Use tapered smooth rigid pots. When roots are bond enough around the pots and before transplanting you should be able to slide the whole root mass and dirt out to retrieve dirt and root samples......Removable panels around the side of the pots could work also or even just dign out samples....

If none can be reproduced during the grow, the feeding program will have to changed to bring down phosphates(most likely)....Ph cant be too high also, fungi like acid soils to thrive.

so i take a sample of the roots? Then look at it under the microscope...what am I looking for exactly?

From DR. Douds of Rodale Institute..........While the impact of the inoculums varies with the vegetable species, and is often masked by the high levels of native AM in our organically-managed soils, Douds has found significantly higher bell pepper yields, even in our high-phosphorus soil, with multi-species mycorrhizal inoculants. Unfortunately, other single species inoculums did not increase yields relative to the un-inoculated controls, leading Douds to conclude that some species are better matched to certain crop plants than others. For best results, a mix of species might be your best bet.
http://rodaleinstitute.org/20090806/gw1



Research by Abbott and Robson (1979) concluded that levels of soil phosphorus
greater than that required for plant growth eliminated the development of the
arbuscles of vesicular-arbuscular (VA) types of mycorrhizae. Arbuscles are
structures produced within the host plant cells by the VA mycorrhizae. These
structures are responsible for the transfer of absorbed nutrients from the fungus to
the plant. The arbuscles resemble miniature shrub-like trees (arbuscular = shrub in
Latin). Mosse (1973) reports adding phosphate results in no arbuscles forming.
What levels of P are critical?
When the soil level of bicarbonate-soluble phosphorus exceeded 140 mg kg
-1 (140
parts per million) the rate of infection was found to decrease (Amijee et al. 1989).
Abbott and Robson (1977 & 197 found the mycorrhizae
Glomus fasciculatum
ceased to be effective when the soil level of phosphorus reached 133 mg kg
-1 [133
parts per million (ppm)]. Schubert and Hayman (1986) found mycorrhizae was no
longer effective when 100 mg or more of P was added per kilogram of soil (100
ppm). Mycorrhizal infection virtually disappeared with the addition of 1.5 grams or
more of mono calcium phosphate per kilogram of soil (Mosse 1973). With small
additions of phosphorus fertilizer, entry points and fungal growth on the root surface
remained normal but arbuscles were small and fewer in number reducing the
effectiveness of the fungus/plant relationship. Other researchers have reported
mycorrhizal infections tend to die out in soils containing or given much phosphorus
(Baylis, 1967; Mosse, 1967). The development of mycorrhizal relationships were
found to be the greatest when soil phosphorus levels were at 50 mg kg
-1 (50 ppm)
(Schubert & Hayman, 1986).
Summary and recommendations:
The benefits of mycorrhizae are greatest when soil phosphorus levels are at or
below 50 ppm (50 mg kg
-1). Mycorrhizal infection of roots declines above this level
with little if any infection occurring above 100 ppm P even when soil is inoculated
with a mycorrhizae mix.
Prior to inoculating soil with mycorrhizae, a soil test should be conducted. If
phosphorus levels are greater than 50 ppm the addition of mycorrhizae will likely be
Mycorrhiza and soil phosphorus levels Colorado State University Cooperative Extension ... Page 2 of 4
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/TRA/PLANTS/mycorrhiza.html?PrintWindow 12/28/2004
ineffective.
The level of phosphorus in the plant also has been shown to influence the
establishment of VA mycorrhizae with high levels inhibiting colonization by
mycorrhizae (Menge, et al. 197. Foliar applications of phosphorus therefore
should be avoided when inoculating soil with mycorrhizae.

http://mining.state.co.us/TechnicalBulletins/MycorrhizaAndSoilPhosphorusLevels.pdf


http://mycorrhiza.ag.utk.edu/mthes.htm <<<<<<<tons of info if u got the time<<<<<<<

InfidelUniversity said:

You response was kind of rambling bro, not sure what ur point was....

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coming from the OP that dosent have a "B" button

ddimebag said:

so i take a sample of the roots? Then look at it under the microscope...what am I looking for exactly?

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Some times a white haze will be obvious around roots ....Sometimes not.... They are very delicate, be gentle with sample.........

Quote>Natural areas generally contain an array of mycorrhizal fungal species. The proportions and abundance of mycorrhizal species often declines following any disturbance. Not all mycorrhizal fungi have the same capacities and tolerances. Some are better at imparting drought resistance, others are more adept at taking up nutrients. The diversity of mycorrhizal fungi formed by a given plant increase its ability to occupy diverse below ground niches and survive a range of chemical, biological and physical conditions.


Here are some pics;

jesus of Cannabis said:

coming from the OP that dosent have a "B" button

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What the hell is a "B" button guy? Do I need 7,600 more posts to go to get one?

InfidelUniversity said:

What the hell is a "B" button guy? Do I need 7,600 more posts to go to get one?

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yeah what is a "B" button?

one product, OREGONISM XL.

Interesting stuff...I think part of the issue is nutrient companies include Trichoderma in their formulas, but market it as a Myco product...Aurora's Oregonism, AN's Piranha, Botanicare's Zho...all of these product include both Mycorrhizae and Trichoderma fungi. People add these products, see results, and attribute their success to Mycorrhizae. The problem with these products is Trichoderma colonizes at a much faster rate than Mycorrhizae...and is so aggressive it actually feeds on Mycorrhizae...so at the end of the day, which strain (of fungus) is making your plants look so good? General Hydroponics has it right IMO...a Trichoderma/Bacillus product...and a stand alone Myco product. IMHO...if you're adding bloom nutrients...or especially boosters...stick with bacteria products and Trichoderma fungi...save the Mycos for super soil and/or outdoor gardens.

vvvvvv Quote vvvvvvv Not so relevant to us but pretty cool.........

One particularly interesting aspect was Dr. Linderman's revelation that fungal threads or hyphae from one plant could actually reach out into the soil and connect with threads of other fungal species on other plants. In effect, this meant that as the network of hyphae becomes well established,all the plants in an area would be tied together into one giant community,presumably able to exchange substances and nutrition with each other. This could be at least one aspect of why mixed plant communities often seem to function better than stands of single species. With all plants tied together, different species might exchange with each other, balancing nutrition and moisture amongst the community.