No till in 100 gallon fabric pot in 4x4 tent

Reefslinger said:
Is this doable/reasonable? Anyone doing this? Are there drip trays for this size? Maybe make a 3/4” plywood base with castors so that it spins and makes accessibility much easier? Any thoughts?
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Why 100g of soil? Way too much for a 4x4 tent IMO.

Would take you months of veg to fill 100g of soil with roots, then the issue becomes the fact your tent is likely only 6.5-7ft tall so height will be a huge limiter for you here.

With a 100g bed of soil, one of two things will happen.

1) You plant 4-16 plants in the bed, and veg it for long enough to actually fill the entire mass of soil prior to flipping to 12/12. Then, you flip to 12/12 and your plants will quickly overcrowd the 4x4x7 tent. You'll be battling ventilation/airflow issues, potential mold/mildew, and not to mention the severe lack of space in length, width, and height. You would quickly outgrow the tent, while simultaneously inviting mold/mildew, and pests to the party, not to mention the bleaching/stress from getting too close to the light.

2) You plant 1-16 plants in the bed, and trigger 12/12 when the canopy is 2-3ft tall. Problem with that, there is no way 1-16+ plants with a 2-3ft tall canopy will completely fill that soil with root. As a result, you'll be much more prone to overwatering which will cause you a myriad of issues in itself. Lets say you use Blumats, or water 100% perfectly. No way it uses all 100g of soil, so it will be a complete waste. Best case scenario, you're wasting soil by pulling similar yields to someone using 4 5-7g pots in that same space. Worst case scenario, you overwater. Causing pH/lockout issues, inviting anaerobic bacteria and pests, and root rot.



Not trying to bust your balls man, merely pointing out that this isn't quite practical in a 4x4x7 tent. Run 4 5-7g pots in that space, if you have the equivalent of a 1000w light you should be able to pull 1lb+ from 4 plants, closer to 2lbs when you get dialed in.

Fun as it sounds, there is pretty much no scenario where 100g of soil in a 4x4x7 tent is practical.

IMO, run 16 plants in 2g pots, 4 plants in 5-7g pots, or 1 plant in a 25-30g pot. They are all viable choices, it ultimately depends on the following factors:

1) Your legal plant count, if you care about legalities of course.
2) How long can you veg
3) Your access to clones/seedlings

If you don't give a shit about plant count and have enough seedlings/clones, go with 16 plants in 2g pots all the way. 1-2oz/plant with minimal veg time (less than a month), by far the most efficient in terms of time and electric costs. With the right strain, and getting dialed in, 2oz+ is very possible in 2g pots. I've pulled ~3.5oz from a Critical OG in a 2g pot, and ~2.5zo from a Jack Herer in a 2g pot. Totally doable.

If you're deadset on doing a large mass of soil, you can do a single plant in a 25-30g pot via SCROG. Issue with this is you're looking at 2-3 months of veg time, not very efficient in terms of time or electricity.

4 plants in 5-7g pots is the happy medium here. Average plant count is 6, you can flower 4 out and have a mother or two for the next time around. Veg will take 1-2 months and you can pull 4-8oz per 5g pot.

Just remember, soil mass is absolutely useless without root mass. Unless your plants have roots that can fill the entire mass of soil, not only does that mass of soil suddenly become useless.. it can even work against you if you aren't cautious.
 
mistergrafik said:
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Definitely something that will take more than just a quick glance over on my part.

However, I did happen to notice him say "I've been able to get this system to work in 15 gallon plastic recycling bins, so I know we don't necessarily need over 100 gallons of soil." but only because it was on the last page.

Also worth noting that this isn't Northwood's first rodeo and that he knows of the dangers of overwatering and how to act accordingly. Someone without this kind of experience will not, as I stated prior. Even if one could account for the overwatering hazards, and act accordingly, 100g of soil is still far too much for that space and even he says it himself.

@Northwood: mind chiming in here?

I still maintain the stance that this is a boat load of soil for such a small space. The same results can be had with much less soil.
 
kratos015 said:
Definitely something that will take more than just a quick glance over on my part.

However, I did happen to notice him say "I've been able to get this system to work in 15 gallon plastic recycling bins, so I know we don't necessarily need over 100 gallons of soil." but only because it was on the last page.

Also worth noting that this isn't Northwood's first rodeo and that he knows of the dangers of overwatering and how to act accordingly. Someone without this kind of experience will not, as I stated prior. Even if one could account for the overwatering hazards, and act accordingly, 100g of soil is still far too much for that space and even he says it himself.

@Northwood: mind chiming in here?

I still maintain the stance that this is a boat load of soil for such a small space. The same results can be had with much less soil.
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I agree with what ur saying. Ran into the Pink Lemonade thread the other day and was blown away. Always wanted to do it and well, he does it. Consistently. Northwood is a spectacular example of doing no till, indoors, the right way so I figured steering the convo in that direction -

I think 100g was just a shot for the stars from the OP
 
Hey guys, thanks for responding. I was looking at the 100g fabric pot was because it would fit lol. The idea was to have 1 pot that could rotate for ease of access (I have some mobility issues and always trying to make things easier on my body) that would also fill that space with flower. I never thought for a minute that it would be too big so thanks for bringing it my attention.
 
mistergrafik said:
I agree with what ur saying. Ran into the Pink Lemonade thread the other day and was blown away. Always wanted to do it and well, he does it. Consistently. Northwood is a spectacular example of doing no till, indoors, the right way so I figured steering the convo in that direction -

I think 100g was just a shot for the stars from the OP
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Why I tagged Northwood, I'd like to think I'm not foolish enough to speak in another man's place. Though, being a fool has taught me some of the most valuable lessons :p

Just thought it interesting that even in later responses to his own thread he points out how he downsized soil mass. I'd speculate for the reasons I pointed out above, but I'm not going to speak for someone else.

A successful no-till can be done in a 5g pot, or a 50g+ pot. The only thing that will change is how quickly you have to dump the pots and recycle things. 5g no-till will need to be dumped in ~6 months or so, a 50g pot will need to be dumped in years.

I've done indoor no-till in 25-30g pots before, and I had much better results doing indoor no-till in smaller pots. 5-7g pots indoor is definitely the sweet spot, for a variety of factors. Space, cost, veg time, plant count, etc. all play a part in the equation. I've seen plenty of successful indoor no-till grows, but in my personal experience 5-7g pots are best for indoors and if you want more than that you're usually better suited for outdoor.

OP was definitely shooting for the starts with 100g of soil. Why I said I wasn't trying to bust his balls, I was just trying to be practical and speak from my own personal experience that it tends to cause more problems than anything else.. especially in such a small space. My indoor 25-30g no-till pots were in a large shed with 10ft tall ceilings, so height was not a concern to me. Veg time, however, was an issue for me with it. Overdid things on my budget and had to sacrifice an entire month of veg, effectively reducing half my yield. Also had issues with overwatering that I needed to correct prior to flipping to 12/12 because I followed the 1:1:1 ratio instead of using my current 40% perlite.



Reefslinger said:
Hey guys, thanks for responding. I was looking at the 100g fabric pot was because it would fit lol. The idea was to have 1 pot that could rotate for ease of access (I have some mobility issues and always trying to make things easier on my body) that would also fill that space with flower. I never thought for a minute that it would be too big so thanks for bringing it my attention.
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Trust me friend, if mobility issues are the problem here then you will 100% be better suited going with 4 5-7g pots in that same space. You'll run into a shit ton of problems trying to get a grow going in a 4x4x7 tent with 100g of soil, especially if its all in the same pot!

How do you plan on watering? Because it would be much easier for me to make a recommendation for you if I knew how you planned on watering. You can theoretically set up a reservoir of water outside of your tent itself, and have a helper/assistant keep the reservoir full of water. That way, all you need to do is turn a spigot to water.

For your situation, you may want to invest in Blumats. Blumats are pretty much the only way to water 100% perfectly. Set them up with a reservoir of some sort that is outside of your tent, that way all you need to do is keep the reservoir full of water and the Blumats will do the rest for you.

How many plants do you plan on growing?

Is veg time/electricity expenses an issue for you?



Keep in mind, root mass is key here. I've seen plenty of people try to go the 25-30g pot no-till indoors only to end up with so many problems and issues that it discourages them from wanting to go with no-till ever again.

Unless you can veg for long enough to fill the entire soil mass with root mass, going big on pots is going to cause more harm than good.

Knew someone that did 25g pot no-tills indoors, only pulled 8-10oz per 25g pot. Meanwhile, I had 2g pots that pulled 2-3oz a piece. 8oz per 25g pot is ~1/3oz per gallon of soil. Meanwhile, my 2g pots got 1oz+ per gallon.

The difference? I had root mass, he did not. As a result, he battled issues with overwatering where as I couldn't keep mine watered enough.

Unless you have 8ft+ of ceiling space, and plenty of room in terms of length and width, indoor grows are best done with 5-7g pots. Especially if restricted to a tent.

Even outdoors I don't run more than 20-25g of soil for no-till. An outdoor marijuana plant that's roots manage to fill 20-25g worth of loamy soil will easily grow into the clay below it. Less is more.


Reefslinger said:
Hmmm. Maybe only fill it half way. Helps with a lot of the issues. More height for growth, less space for root growth, less weight for rotating, less water, less soil?
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You can do the same thing with smaller pots, and it will actually be easier on you. Sourcing castor wheels that will hold 50-100g of soil+water will cost you a lot more than castors that will hold 5-7g pots.

In fact, with 5-7g pots you can go with SIP (sub irrigation planter) method. You can build a 1x1sqft box with castors for each plant (4 plants total), line the box with tarp/visqueen, and then fill the box with perlite. Then set your plants on top of the perlite. Then, all you need to do is ensure the box consistently has water in it. The pots+soil will wick the water from the SIP box, making things simpler on you in terms of watering because all you'll need to do is make sure the SIP is full of water and you won't have to worry about watering the soil itself.

The castors will also help you when it comes time to turn the pots so that you're able to prune your plants effectively. Even with castors, turning 50-100g pot will be an absolute bitch. Turning 5-7g pots will be so much easier on you. With SIP on castor wheels, you'll be able to not only water effortlessly, but you'll be able to prune and top dress effortlessly as well.

Please correct me if/where I'm wrong. I'm trying to get a good idea as to your particular situation so that I can provide advice most suited for you and your situation.

Again, not trying to bust your balls. Just trying to save you from the heartache and trouble I've had learning things the hard way.
 
kratos015 said:
Definitely something that will take more than just a quick glance over on my part.

However, I did happen to notice him say "I've been able to get this system to work in 15 gallon plastic recycling bins, so I know we don't necessarily need over 100 gallons of soil." but only because it was on the last page.

Also worth noting that this isn't Northwood's first rodeo and that he knows of the dangers of overwatering and how to act accordingly. Someone without this kind of experience will not, as I stated prior. Even if one could account for the overwatering hazards, and act accordingly, 100g of soil is still far too much for that space and even he says it himself.

@Northwood: mind chiming in here?

I still maintain the stance that this is a boat load of soil for such a small space. The same results can be had with much less soil.
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The pot I currently use is "rated" to hold 150g. I probably only have 100g in it though which I why I put those bamboo sticks in there to keep the cloth sides from flopping inwards. The sides of my pot are 20" and it's filled to about 14" at most. Even my one plant in that pot has long since sent it's roots to all edges of the pot, but when you think about it the edge of the pot is only 2" away from any direction. 4 plants will fill it with roots in under 2 months from seed easily, but without it ever getting "root-bound" that could lead to watering issues and anaerobic conditions, and well... root rot. More soil helps prevent that from ever happening.

Surface area is more important that depth, particularly if you're doing full biomass recycling instead of using nutrients or amendments. Cannabis roots don't go deep, and it's critical that there are no anaerobic conditions at the bottom of your container. The extra space on top allows ample room for a good thick mulch layer too.

The 100g version of the same pot I have (Amazon) is also 20" high, but only 38" in diameter so it will certainly fit well in a 4X4 tent with room to spare. With 12 to 14" of soil, it will hold closer to 65 to 75 gallons of soil. My pot simply sits on the floor of the tent, protected by pond liner and the drip tray over that which came with the tent. If I water to runoff I use a little shop vac to suck up the excess and feed my houseplants with it.

There's nothing positive about having a lot of bare floor space in your tent because if roots can't grow there, it's space unused (wasted). The disadvantage of having so much soil in one bed/pot is that it's not moveable. I wouldn't start one if I knew I had to move in a year.

Basically it sounds like the OP is going the same route I did, but with a smaller pot and tent. It works just fine in my opinion. I'd go for it ;)

Edit: I just realized the OP has mobility issues that may make this difficult, even if the tent has 3 doors. We need to be able to physically reach any part inside the tent in order to prune, train, etc. Depending on the severity of these issues, even moving out and back in half dozen smaller pots everyday will get old very quickly. Using multiple smaller tents might be an option, but still covering as much of the floor area with soil as possible if going the no-till route. The problem is that most smaller tents 3X3 and less are usually even more height restricted which may be a problem depending on the yield required.

Probably the ultimate solution is to use a big soil bed, but a raised one in a grow room that can be easily walked around and accessed from any point. Having it raised will lesson the bending down needed if you're working with small plants. I know that many commercial no-till growers are using 4X8 beds of soil that are raised up on a frame that can even be wheeled around. Something like that could work on a smaller scale.
 
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Mobility issues will definitely be the main thing to work with here. As I was wondering above, its a matter of whether or not he has a helper or not.

As you pointed out, height issues in a tent will be the biggest issue. He could set up a Blumat reservoir, I feel like that would be the biggest help for him in terms of watering. But I'm not sure how he'd get help not only setting it up, but keeping the reservoir full.

Pruning 4 plants in smaller pots would be easier than a single large plant, but would still prove challenging with mobility issues. However, 4 plants in a 4x4 tent isn't too unmanageable to prune. I've done single plants in 3x3 and 4x4 SCROG, lot of reaching and bending needed in order to prune a SCROG and it becomes much more crucial in a single large SCROG plant set up as opposed to multiple smaller plants.

The beds on wheels is a great idea, the problem is that he's in a tent. If OP had a way to use a larger room and not a tent, this would help his situation immensely. But I'm still not sure if he's even in a legal state or not.

Definitely going to need more information to help troubleshoot this one.
 
kratos015 said:
Mobility issues will definitely be the main thing to work with here. As I was wondering above, its a matter of whether or not he has a helper or not.

As you pointed out, height issues in a tent will be the biggest issue. He could set up a Blumat reservoir, I feel like that would be the biggest help for him in terms of watering. But I'm not sure how he'd get help not only setting it up, but keeping the reservoir full.

Pruning 4 plants in smaller pots would be easier than a single large plant, but would still prove challenging with mobility issues. However, 4 plants in a 4x4 tent isn't too unmanageable to prune. I've done single plants in 3x3 and 4x4 SCROG, lot of reaching and bending needed in order to prune a SCROG and it becomes much more crucial in a single large SCROG plant set up as opposed to multiple smaller plants.

The beds on wheels is a great idea, the problem is that he's in a tent. If OP had a way to use a larger room and not a tent, this would help his situation immensely. But I'm still not sure if he's even in a legal state or not.

Definitely going to need more information to help troubleshoot this one.
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I agree. I don't know how, but I missed the mobility issue when I first replied. Oopsy.

TBH, that 5X5 scrog I have going on now is a bit of a challenge for me even without mobility issues. Often I just leave the back stuff to let it sort itself out. lol

Definitely more info needed, including what the yield requirements are before anything more useful can be added here.
 
Northwood said:
I agree. I don't know how, but I missed the mobility issue when I first replied. Oopsy.

TBH, that 5X5 scrog I have going on now is a bit of a challenge for me even without mobility issues. Often I just leave the back stuff to let it sort itself out. lol

Definitely more info needed, including what the yield requirements are before anything more useful can be added here.
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If you are in a 4x4 or 5x5 why not put the tent on a short platform of 3/4 plywood with inch castors this makes it easier to move and clean under the tent plus it provides insulation from the cold floor. Not sure if they are available or not but a 4x4 or 5x5 tent with openings on all sides would be a really nice feature sure it would add cost but the convenience it would provide would make it worth it, specially to a person with mobility issues.
 
Johnny-carcinogen said:
@Northwood do you have any experience with auto flowers? Would they still grow root structures in a notill that are similar to photoperiod mean wider vs deep even tho they depend on their taproot to determine height?
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I've never grown an auto before. But if you take a look at people's little microgrows growing autos, a lot of them are growing huge colas in what look to be bonsai trays. Most are chemical grows through due to the difficulty of getting proper nutrient cycling going in 2 square feet of growing space.
 
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