Organized religion exists because people are afraid of death

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
IMO, this is the number one cause of the perpetuation of organized religion;

Even normal, sane people have a hard time understanding oblivion, to be honest, I do too, as an atheist.

But I don't create a lie to believe in because I can't accept a lie I don't believe, I can't accept a lie that isn't true.. That's why I'm not a theist. I know all theistic inquiry is simply a lie..

When people can finally accept that once their life is at an end, they cease to exist, physically, mentally, as well as spiritually, I think we will finally see some progress in mankind.

People like to say we're at an age of new enlightenment, but I hear that and scoff, we're nowhere near there. We might have fancy tools and technologies that put us above other species, but out biology and physiology is still very much in the past, everything we know and could possibly learn is subject to our makeup.

If only the human machine was as efficient as AI..

This leads to another thread entirely.. people think AI is something to be feared, I think AI will save humanity.

Robots will save us from ourselves if religion doesn't destroy us first.


Theists, do you REALLY believe?

 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
I like the opening post.

I think it's a little more complicated than the title suggests.

I think that "fear of the unknown" is naturally occurring, and that the notion of some sort of "spiritual permanence" or "continuance" or "afterlife" or... whatever you want to call it, is also somewhat naturally occurring (the *notion thereof)... but it's sort of paradoxical, in that "the idea" can exist, and even stand on its own, without the "organized religion" part, but the way it exists today, it's as if each is the reason for the other. I think "organized religion" was built to exploit the natural vulnerability to fear of the unknown, and the fragility of mortality, as in for the purpose of controlling those who fear it, by giving them consolation in the form of hope, so as to provide a context for accepting suboptimal (or worse) conditions during their lives, imposed upon them by those with the power to do so.

It's kinda like... fear was the road, and the idea of a god and an afterlife sort of naturally developed, as a vehicle to travel that road.

But then, someone figured out that you could steer the vehicle by changing how it relates to the road, and modifying the road to better suit the vehicle.

And then new roads were made with such vehicles in mind, which resulted in humanity being "driven" down these contrived paths, for the purpose of whatever destinations those controlling the vehicles, intended to reach.

It's more like fear of the unknown (and mortality) allows organized religion to manipulate populations, and so "the purpose for organized religion to exist," is actually control of people, through that natural and exploitable fear. It relies upon ignorance and faith; both of which can be defeated by logic and critical thinking... and so if you can devise a way to control what information is available, construct a society which ostracizes (or worse) dissenters, while enabling prosperity of participants, which discourages questioning of obvious inconsistencies... you can steer the vehicle, thus "controlling society." But "controlling" is an odd term here, because much of the "control" is simply people conforming to the standards they're taught, due to the fear of being cast out and denied the chance to prosper.

Why it exists, is control.

Why it works, is fear (and ignorance produced by having control of what information is available).
 
A

amnesiahaze15

Member
Those quotes are fuckin sick......eye opening. ^^

Religion is to control the masses. Only two things in life that moves a human....fear and desire.
 
mudminer

mudminer

Active Member
Trying to imagine "eternity" whether it be past or future could make a person crazy. The concept of having to endure it (anywhere) just freaks me out. The concept of reincarnation sounds fair to me. Other than that...a nice dirt nap sounds peaceful. Granted there are ways of dying that would truly suck but the state of being dead...just not an issue for me.
 
Amos Otis

Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
And if he's wrong?

'Nothing' after death is a convenient view, if you don't want any resposibility for your actions when alive.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Isn't one responsible for their actions while alive? Our society and our legal system seem to be based on this idea...
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
This may be what perpetuates it, but it is in no way why it exists. Organized Religion exists because people organize, and religion used to just mean "Lifestyle". People would be in a cult based on a God (Shiva, Mithras, Kali or whoever) and your "Culture" comes from that "Cult"s history, in a way that allows you to fulfill goals of people who have been dead for thousands of years.

Organized Christianity is more largely based on death than other religions, other religions claim there is a thin veil between the world of the living and the world of the dead. Catholicism shows you an example of this.
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
Basically, organized religion exists, because in the past ANY organization humans saw in nature or society was WHAT they called "religion".
Farming = Religion, Funeral =Religion, Marriage = Religion, Judges = Religion. We just recently stopped calling organized things, "Religious", automatically.
 
Greenunity

Greenunity

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure it's a combination of fear of death, that people don't want to take responsibility for themselves, and that people are scared of being alone.
 
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reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
Greenunity said:
I'm pretty sure it's a combination of fear of death, that people don't want to take responsibility for themselves, and that people are scared of being alone.
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Ah, but, you can't "be" alone, if you're no longer "being." Alive is "being." Dead is "not being."

Amos Otis said:
Is he inconvenienced now?
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Whether he "is inconvenienced" is only relevant if he Suffers it. I think being unaware of any inconvenience nullifies that inconvenience.

Amos Otis said:
And if he's wrong?

'Nothing' after death is a convenient view, if you don't want any responsibility for your actions when alive.
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On the contrary: "YOLO" could (and perhaps should) be interpreted as the most important reason to do as much right and as little wrong as possible during life. Why? Because No One gets a do-over. You get ONE chance to not fuck up, and to avoid being fucked over by others. If you miss, you'll never get to try again, so it's important to never miss.

However, lots of people seem very convinced that they need the threat of eternal consequences (or more accurately: an afterlife, since all consequences ARE eternal...) in order to choose to refrain from outwardly injurious behaviors. And still others, use those same absurd dogmas as "justification" for their own heinous actions, in the name of a fictional being.

I don't fear not existing; i fear the transition from living to dead, and all the fucked up shit and misery that will inevitably surround me until that final insult/punchline. There are only maybe 2-3 ways to die which aren't horrible. Most people don't manage to end those ways.

Anyway, Amos, you almost seem like you're insinuating that atheists only reject religion because they want to be irresponsible. Surely that's not something any sane person actually thinks.
 
Amos Otis

Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
reasonevangelist said:
On the contrary: "YOLO" could (and perhaps should) be interpreted as the most important reason to do as much right and as little wrong as possible during life. Why? Because No One gets a do-over. You get ONE chance to not fuck up, and to avoid being fucked over by others. If you miss, you'll never get to try again, so it's important to never miss.
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This makes no sense.

Why would your behavior in life be 'important to never miss' if there were no consequences?

You live. Behave any way you choose. You die. If that's how it is, why would you be compelled to 'do as much right and as little wrong as possible'?

Your dust and decay will be just as dusty and decayed regardless.
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
Amos Otis said:
This makes no sense.

Why would your behavior in life be 'important to never miss' if there were no consequences?

You live. Behave any way you choose. You die. If that's how it is, why would you be compelled to 'do as much right and as little wrong as possible'?

Your dust and decay will be just as dusty and decayed regardless.
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The consequence is that you only get one try; there is no "afterlife" or "reincarnation" where "you" can "set things right" or "get it right next time."

There is only This, Now. What do you mean "no consequences?" There are constant consequences, all the time; Right Now. THOSE are the consequences we need to be focusing on, not some alleged and never substantiated supernatural fairytale.

NOW is what is important, not some "after" that doesn't even exist. NOW, and because there is only just this One 'now,' is why it's important to do as much right and as little wrong as possible. It's mutually beneficial (self and other). We don't need to invent false consequences to scare people into compliance. Just show them pure unfiltered reality. Remind them "this is what happens because of choices people make." If someone makes a wrong choice, someone suffers needlessly (perhaps many). If someone makes a right choice, at least one person, but possibly many, will find benefit.

This isn't hard stuff.
 
Amos Otis

Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
reasonevangelist said:
The consequence is that you only get one try; there is no "afterlife" or "reincarnation" where "you" can "set things right" or "get it right next time."

There is only This, Now. What do you mean "no consequences?" There are constant consequences, all the time; Right Now. THOSE are the consequences we need to be focusing on, not some alleged and never substantiated supernatural fairytale.

NOW is what is important, not some "after" that doesn't even exist. NOW, and because there is only just this One 'now,' is why it's important to do as much right and as little wrong as possible. It's mutually beneficial (self and other). We don't need to invent false consequences to scare people into compliance. Just show them pure unfiltered reality. Remind them "this is what happens because of choices people make." If someone makes a wrong choice, someone suffers needlessly (perhaps many). If someone makes a right choice, at least one person, but possibly many, will find benefit.

This isn't hard stuff.
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Many people live their entire adult lives benefitting greatly by screwing their fellow man on a daily basis. They gain wealth, power, and luxury.

Note: the word is 'gain'.

You're right about one thing: 'this isn't hard stuff'.
 
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