Smaller buds under LEDS vs HPS?

oztoka · Nov 17, 2023

Hey all, been posting a journal on this grow but thought Id post here as well to see if I can get some others opinions.

UPDATE DAY 44 12/12 STRAIN ETHOS BANANA DADDY R1 x 10 seeds

Ok things arent looking that great actually..

Temps around 85F or 28c
Humidity around 45 ~ 50 %
EC inreased to 2.4

Noticing tips curling up due to the higher EC levels.
No deficiency I can see really.

why are these buds so damn small lol.

First time growing under leds, honestly thought the yields would blow 2 x 600w HPS out of the water..
Cant see it happening tbh.
Ive grown a few diff phenos of this same strain (seed) under HPS and mostly got plants with nice sized colas.
There are 10 different phenos here and not 1 have nice sized buds so far!

Upon doing some reading up from a few other growers, seems they have experienced similar and have gone back to HPS.

What do yas reckon? Any suggestions on what went wrong?
Ive read under LEDs you need higher EC levels. Im around 2.4 and have noticed tips curling so dont think thats it.

ProPheT 216 · Nov 17, 2023

How far away from the tops is your light? What light are you using? You may be surprised and impressed with the rock like weight and density led can provide.

I would say it's light distance or just the genetics of that particular bean. You could bedoing something like or feeding and stunting.

This is under led, week 5 in the photo

oztoka · Nov 17, 2023

ProPheT 216 said:
How far away from the tops is your light? What light are you using? You may be surprised and impressed with the rock like weight and density led can provide.

I would say it's light distance or just the genetics of that particular bean. You could bedoing something like or feeding and stunting.

This is under led, w

Light is 2 x Mars Hydro FCE 6500 in a 8x 4 tent
Distance from tops to light varies actually as the phenos are all diff heights.
Currently at 100% and at most around 1100umol/s

10 different phenos and not one seems to have nice big solid tops. Considering its week 6, I would have expected some indication of size by now..
1 thing is I havent done as much lollipopping as I normally would under hps so there quite a bit of density in the middle of the plants under the tops..
Also been taking a bit more fan leaves than usual and pretty constant at that up until week 5 so may have affected bud development...

Hmm has me stumped.. Thinking if I should just go back to HPS lol..

TCH · Nov 17, 2023

If you want to compare apples to apples, I recommend growing out a couple clones and treat them exactly the same as each other except one order hps and one under led. You're growing from seed, not lollipopping as much as normal and Takoma more fan leaves than normal and you are blaming the light right out of the gate. You have several variables that could be contributing to the issues.

thumper60 · Nov 17, 2023

oztoka said:
Hey all, been posting a journal on this grow but thought Id post here as well to see if I can get some others opinions.

UPDATE DAY 44 12/12 STRAIN ETHOS BANANA DADDY R1 x 10 seeds

Ok things arent looking that great actually..

Temps around 85F or 28c
Humidity around 45 ~ 50 %
EC inreased to 2.4

Noticing tips curling up due to the higher EC levels.
No deficiency I can see really.

why are these buds so damn small lol.

First time growing under leds, honestly thought the yields would blow 2 x 600w HPS out of the water..
Cant see it happening tbh.
Ive grown a few diff phenos of this same strain (seed) under HPS and mostly got plants with nice sized colas.
There are 10 different phenos here and not 1 have nice sized buds so far!

Upon doing some reading up from a few other growers, seems they have experienced similar and have gone back to HPS.

What do yas reckon? Any suggestions on what went wrong?
Ive read under LEDs you need higher EC levels. Im around 2.4 and have noticed tips curling so dont think thats it.

Looks pretty dam good for day 44 you got 3-4 more weeks to go i wouldnt worry.

oztoka · Nov 17, 2023

TCH said:
If you want to compare apples to apples, I recommend growing out a couple clones and treat them exactly the same as each other except one order hps and one under led. You're growing from seed, not lollipopping as much as normal and Takoma more fan leaves than normal and you are blaming the light right out of the gate. You have several variables that could be contributing to the issues.

Totally agree with you. Few things that could be affecting the top growth as mentioned. Tbh Ive had some strains grow buds like this under hps too and Ive also seen some awesome buds grown under the FCE 6500s.
Reckon I need to try and dial it in a bit more and run a cut that Ive done under hps before. Have just the one that ill be running next under these lights!

oztoka · Nov 17, 2023

thumper60 said:
Looks pretty dam good for day 44 you got 3-4 more weeks to go i wouldnt worry.

Thanks mate. Frost and terp wise the buds seem lovely. Hoping that the density makes up for the size of the buds eventually!

Roguedawg · Nov 17, 2023

Alot of plants will not make large buds if they are not thinned out but will make large flowers if they are thinned out. Some plants will make large flowers regardless. Try lollipoping like you used to with hps next time, and try keeping N below 150ppm.

oztoka · Nov 17, 2023

Roguedawg said:
Alot of plants will not make large buds if they are not thinned out but will make large flowers if they are thinned out. Some plants will make large flowers regardless. Try lollipoping like you used to with hps next time, and try keeping N below 150ppm.

Good advice, cheers will do exactly that next time.

oztoka · Nov 17, 2023

Took me a while to jump on the LED bandwagon due to always having run HPS lights but ended up getting another 2 x FC 6500 EVOS this time round.
Now seeing the underwhelming progress under the FCEs I was kinda thinking if I got sucked into the hype lol.

Anyways Ive just started 8 x cuts of a pheno of Ethos Grandpas Cookies # 6 I found a few crops ago. Under the HPS, this plant yielded some seriously dank buds that were just huge. All branches were like coke can sized and dense as with hardly any leaf. Only shit thing was that it took 12 weeks to finish. But with 1 plant yielding 14ozs the wait was worthwhile. The potency of this pheno was very nice as well.

Ill be starting a new diary on this one too so be interesting to see how they turn out compared to the HPSs with the new EVO leds.

Nutty sKunK · Nov 17, 2023

oztoka said:
Hey all, been posting a journal on this grow but thought Id post here as well to see if I can get some others opinions.

UPDATE DAY 44 12/12 STRAIN ETHOS BANANA DADDY R1 x 10 seeds

Ok things arent looking that great actually..

Temps around 85F or 28c
Humidity around 45 ~ 50 %
EC inreased to 2.4

Noticing tips curling up due to the higher EC levels.
No deficiency I can see really.

why are these buds so damn small lol.

First time growing under leds, honestly thought the yields would blow 2 x 600w HPS out of the water..
Cant see it happening tbh.
Ive grown a few diff phenos of this same strain (seed) under HPS and mostly got plants with nice sized colas.
There are 10 different phenos here and not 1 have nice sized buds so far!

Upon doing some reading up from a few other growers, seems they have experienced similar and have gone back to HPS.

What do yas reckon? Any suggestions on what went wrong?
Ive read under LEDs you need higher EC levels. Im around 2.4 and have noticed tips curling so dont think thats it.

High temps/intense light = more co2 needed I believe. Stomata’s could be closing.

The buds should be denser than the hps so should make up for weight in that respect

oztoka · Nov 17, 2023

Nutty sKunK said:
High temps/intense light = more co2 needed I believe. Stomata’s could be closing.

The buds should be denser than the hps so should make up for weight in that respect

I've read up about the changes in the room environment when changing lights and tbh.. never really thought much into it thinking its all a bit of geek talk. I'm thinking, its probably just gonna drop the temps a bit and obviously brighter all round but thats it.

When I was using the HPS last few grows I measured the intensity of the light right where the buds are the closest to the bulb and they were getting roasted at around 1500umol/s lol (no wonder they were huge, ugly though).
With the LEDs at no point is the light that intense, however its pretty much 900 ~ 1100 all round the tent whereas with the HPS theyd be getting to 500s in the corners.

Not being in a sealed room I cant add co2 so thats not really an option i believe..
Oh well I gave my old lumatek digis away so no turning back now!

Lou66 · Nov 17, 2023

So you have changed light, pruning and before you weighed your first crop you know LED is bad. How many runs did it take for you to dial it in with HPS?

In yield per area both technologies are on par. LEDs just use less electricity to get to the finish line.

oztoka · Nov 17, 2023

Lou66 said:
So you have changed light, pruning and before you weighed your first crop you know LED is bad. How many runs did it take for you to dial it in with HPS?

In yield per area both technologies are on par. LEDs just use less electricity to get to the finish line.

Got sucked into the 2~ 3 gs per watt claim lol.

Smaller buds under LEDS vs HPS?

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