Soil additives, bone meal, kelp etc... And FPEs?

Okay, this is going to be quite a long post, i have many questions (and pictures, part is to show off i must admit )

Here goes.
So i am still relatively new to organics and i just want to make sure im doing the right things.
I will give some background first. I have been reading about organics from this website, gill cardagins? website and many others, icmag, cannibis culture, teaming with microbes, some of the TLO but that guy seems a bit vague and doesnt explain "why" things are done his way so im not taking it to heart, i find it hard to read because i have been following some f the gurus on this fourm, risingmoon, nugbucket, sub and many more. And a lot of what the rev says contradicts what they have said or is totally opposite...
Anyway this isnt about the rev, its about organics.
About, oh i would say at least 3-4 months ago i went to my local forest and collected some nice, earthy, black, crumbly, soft, spongy soil and roots that had white fuzzys on them (mycos?) and put that soil into a plastic tote, i forget the size now.. Maybe 60gallons? Pics will be included. And to that soil i added promix bx? I think it was, i know it was a promix, peat from primere? Canadian peat it was. Steer manure, coco, vermi blend, some blended up dandilions, coconut flour, glacial rock dust, alfalfa, a bit of high nitrogen bat guano, kelp, rock phosphate, dolomite lime, and i watered it down with a worm, compost tea. Now i added a few of these a couple months ago and then i added the alfalfa, guano,kelp, and dolomite yesterday, i put about two cups of dolomite lime in and then 1 cup of alfalfa and kelp and about 3 tbl spoons of guano.

Break time lol

Today i went and bought bone meal, fish bone meal and crushed oyster shell.
My questions are: did i put enough/too much dolo, alfalfa and kelp?
How much bone meal, fish bone meal and oyster shell?
Im asking this now because my plant is looking to be starving, i put her in soil thinking i could do teas but that is a lot of work and im in the process of moving and dont want to make teas with these ingredients. Its unhealthy im thinking if i breathe in the dust.. And its animal bone and poop lol.. Im ok with it once in a while but not multiple times a week. So now i am going to premix my soil like i should have done a long time ago..

Also, here is a picture of all of my supplies, am i missing anything?







This pic of my soil has vermiblend sprinkled on top, thats why it looks so uniform and dry, i am going to spray vermitea overtop to get the microbes going



And when i do mix everything up i should water it down again with some vermi tea to get the microbes going? Im bubbling a batch as we speak!

Thanks for the help! Here are some pictures of my little garden, everything is being fed organically except my tomatoes... They are in coco, from the dollar store so im going to use my chem nutes on them lol.

My habenero pepper



My plants, a pine tree, an avocado tree, strawberries, horse chestnut tree, a maple tree, some comfrey sprouts, and some pathetic tomatoes that refuse to die lol and my habenero plant.



My other comfrey plant, i ripped it out of mow zone and put it in my pot, it had a huge, fat root for one leaf! Now two more leafs are popping up!



My peyotes! Slooooow growers




My little aloe plants!




Two more questions: i have plant ferments going on right now, one is comfrey all cut up and i put it in an icecream tub with water and some BIM that i made. God it stinks so fking bad, smells like death. I had other ferments fermenting and never strained out the solids and now they smell like stttttrong alcohol and im very hesitant to use them on my plants or in my soil tub...
My questions are, is this white mold normal? One is comfrey and the other is weeping willow branches/leaves for rooting hormones. Does leaving the solids "take the fermentation too far" does it turn to alcohol cause mine smell like 151... Or ammonia... More alcoholey. I know they use fermentation to make wine and beer.. Did i just do the same thing? Are all my FPEs bad?
Here are some pics, the comfrey doesnt smell like alcohol, yet... Do i need to strain the solids? Can anyone link me to some good reading about how to make FPEs?
If i have to strain it then how can you take comfrey and make teas out of them with solids? Or make the "black goo" they talk about? Wont that turn to alcohol?

The comfrey



The willow water



I appreciate all who read and respond, thank you so much for your help

I was going to tell you all those plants were the worst pot plants I'd ever seen. But then as I read realized I'm going to sit back and watch this.. Cause IDKS about fermenting plants..

Blindnslow said:

I was going to tell you all those plants were the worst pot plants I'd ever seen. But then as I read realized I'm going to sit back and watch this.. Cause IDKS about fermenting plants..

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Loooooool yes they would be the worst looking pot plants ever. My plant does look pretty ragged but this isnt about her, i top dressed her the other day and her new growth is doing much better now.

I just wanted some advice on how i should be mixing the amendments into my soil, how much, etc. and if im missing anything. I also want to know a bit more about fermenting plants because im not quite sure what im doing and dont want to pour alcohol into my soil lol

Thanks for the view though! Maybe you can learn about FPEs on the way

Okay so i went ahead and mixed in 1 cup of fish bone meal, 1 cup of bone meal and 2 cups of powdered oyster shells to my soil mix. Does that sound about right?

Anyone?

So no one can help me?

Well thanks i guess..

I use a brewer's trap to ferment, when it slows down [about 2weeks - 1 month] I strain and cap the bottle, keeping it in cool dark place. If fermentation goes longer, I have been experimenting with Campden tablets.

Problem with FPE is a real lack of literature explaining what chemistry should be happening. The basic difference between aerobic and anaerobic is how oxygen is used. If you have equipment, doing tests is your best bet.

I also use a hydrometer from time to time to measure sugar content, which is a good way of gauging how far along fermentation has gone........

Abiqua said:

I use a brewer's trap to ferment, when it slows down [about 2weeks - 1 month] I strain and cap the bottle, keeping it in cool dark place. If fermentation goes longer, I have been experimenting with Campden tablets.

Problem with FPE is a real lack of literature explaining what chemistry should be happening. The basic difference between aerobic and anaerobic is how oxygen is used. If you have equipment, doing tests is your best bet.

I also use a hydrometer from time to time to measure sugar content, which is a good way of gauging how far along fermentation has gone........

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Thank you ambiqua for the reply!
Yes there sure is a lack of literature on FPEs. I have looked on google and what i do get doesnt explain so well.
Like is it supposed to smell strongly of alcohol or is that too far?
A hydrometer sounds like something im maybe wanting to get.
Is there a base sugar reading for everything, like every plant? That i could refer to in memory to know when its done or is every plants sugar reading going to be different for when its ready to strain?
I will also look into a brewers cap!
Also, when i strain it can i close the lid fully? Cause i dont want my jars exploding, they are glass.
And i have some strained comfrey but it keeps growing white mold on top, is that normal?

I know its a lot of questions, i hope someone else can chime in and help answer them all.
Thank you again, i dont want to poison my babies lol

I am working on a journal for FPE's. Started it 2nite, lots of interest, but I am hella un-organized but with TONS of INFO!

A hydrometer is commonly used in brewing. You can pick one up for probably $10 or even make one DIY.

• There are two types of fermenting, one produces alcohol, the other produces acids and/or carbon dioxide. 1st, I don't use Molasses or sugars and none of the my ferments have come out smelling alcoholish. But ammonia from ammonium and No23 [nitrates] is present, maybe attached to the escaping Co2. But I don't know how to standardize the method, to ensure organic acids everytime......
• This is where the brewer's trap come in handy. I can watch the bubbles form from fermentation. Once they stop or slow way down, fermentation is complete. I personally have never had a container explode after I strain and cap.
• You could use a rubber glove to cover your bottle and keep it airtight, but expandable in case it does allow gas to escape.

• No there is not a base sugar reading[That I am aware of], but I think that is a phenomenal idea for the future. Definitely a possibility of standardizing a FPE recipe, just a like a brewer would do. [Don't know why I didn't think of this, right in front of me ]
• A brewer's trap, is basically a One-way valve. It allows gas to escape, but does not allow oxygen back into container. You can build a water trap with a piece of clear hose shaped like an S, and keep a little water in one of the bends. Gas will push out and dissolve into water, while preventing oxygen from crossing the airtight barrier.

• White mould is fine and a sign of good things. Blue, grey or black mold is a sign of contamination you don't want.
• Generally I found that white mould occurs when oxygen is getting into the substrate or you have just happened across faculative mould. Faculative organisms prefer one type of respiration [aerobic/anaerobic] but can use both in the absence of their preferred environment.

Couple of tips.

I read about everything fermentation.

I read about processes from different ways of fermenting, alcohol, fuel making like a ethanol still, bokashi and foods.

There are a ton of fermented foods out there already with some nutrional analysis done already. This could be used as a base too.

yogurt, kim chee, buttermilk, wine, beer, mead, tofu, natto, cheese, pickles, sauerkraut, sausage, etc etc. All go thru fermenation.....

Abiqua said:

Couple of tips.

I read about everything fermentation.

I read about processes from different ways of fermenting, alcohol, fuel making like a ethanol still, bokashi and foods.

There are a ton of fermented foods out there already with some nutrional analysis done already. This could be used as a base too.

yogurt, kim chee, buttermilk, wine, beer, mead, tofu, natto, cheese, pickles, sauerkraut, sausage, etc etc. All go thru fermenation.....

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the good tips!
I really love reading so when i have the time im usually reading about it and plant stuff.
I have added sugars to the plant matter, so im essentially making alcohol? And i shouldnt add sugars? What about lacto bacilli?
My comfrey and willow water just have plant matter and water and dont smell like alcohol, just really stinky, oh man.
I have tried reading everything i can find. They lack detail and theres no trouble shooting for most articles. I think i will have to get some gooks from the library
I am going to look into the brewers trap and hydrometers, im going out today, will see if i can find them.

If you do end up compiling together some info or a how to or anything then feel free to send it to me! I will probably be your most famous fan haha.

Thanks again, you have cleared up a lot for me, i appreciate it!

http://gilcarandang.com/

Contact them! they are plenty helpful. It does seem it's dangerous to close most of these at certain points for they might explode, and most of them do go through a process of building that white mold, fungus on top, and plenty of other colors, lol.

Below66 said:

http://gilcarandang.com/

Contact them! they are plenty helpful. It does seem it's dangerous to close most of these at certain points for they might explode, and most of them do go through a process of building that white mold, fungus on top, and plenty of other colors, lol.

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Thanks below! That is where i learned most of the stuff about fermenting i forgot that i can ask questions too, thanks for the reminder

The chemistry of FPE is blowing my mind.....just came across something on the white rot, look up Rhizopus ,a fungus that can produce lactic acid. It is similar in description to what you are describing, i.e. white rot.

take all those good things, oyster shell, comfrey, willow, bone, etc. and incorporate them into a hot compost, with your carbon and nitrogen sources. feed garden with teas. fuck all that rotting, smelly nonsense, imo. I let the processes of the pile do all the stinky work. I then feed that to worms. I then feed that, to my micro-zoo soil-web, who in turn, feed my plants; how nice of them

Abiqua said:

The chemistry of FPE is blowing my mind.....just came across something on the white rot, look up Rhizopus ,a fungus that can produce lactic acid. It is similar in description to what you are describing, i.e. white rot.

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Lactic acid is good right? Like lacto bacilli? Cause i have some of that in my fridge, fermented it all by myself! Haha.
White molds are good. With the rhizopus it turns black when it spores right?
Going to look more into it

DonAlejandroVega said:

take all those good things, oyster shell, comfrey, willow, bone, etc. and incorporate them into a hot compost, with your carbon and nitrogen sources. feed garden with teas. fuck all that rotting, smelly nonsense, imo. I let the processes of the pile do all the stinky work. I then feed that to worms. I then feed that, to my micro-zoo soil-web, who in turn, feed my plants; how nice of them

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I would compost them! But i dont have the space for a compost and im moving really far in a month, no time/space to start one and i would have to pack it up and move it with me which i already have like 100lbs + of just dirt and amendments so ill start one when i move, im excited to do so.
My soil is cooking outside right now but even so, it doesnt stink and personally i love the smell of good soil. I was going to go the tea rout but its a huge hassle for one plant. I like the water only idea.

Well, the ferments are kinda like teas, really fkn stinky teas, especially comfrey. I like to mix them with water and foliar and drench, they like that. I use sprouted seed teas as well.
Just have to perfect my ferments

DonAlejandroVega said:

take all those good things, oyster shell, comfrey, willow, bone, etc. and incorporate them into a hot compost, with your carbon and nitrogen sources. feed garden with teas. fuck all that rotting, smelly nonsense, imo. I let the processes of the pile do all the stinky work. I then feed that to worms. I then feed that, to my micro-zoo soil-web, who in turn, feed my plants; how nice of them

Click to expand...

compost goes thru an anaerobic stage as well....

Only the richest countries ignore fermentation as a step in soil health.....

Abiqua said:

compost goes thru an anaerobic stage as well....

Only the richest countries ignore fermentation as a step in soil health.....

Click to expand...

I bokashi, thank you!

Abiqua said:

compost goes thru an anaerobic stage as well....

Only the richest countries ignore fermentation as a step in soil health.....

Click to expand...

if it goes anaerobic, its moldering, not composting. different temps, different bugs, different end product. composting is an aerobic process; keeping to the definition.

Okay so doing research i found out what the rest of the world calls FPEs. They call it "fermented plant juice" ........... Loool
Stupid name but whatever.
They use brown sugar for osmosis, to suck the water and stuff out of the cell walls, then bottle it up, ferment it for a week and strain, add more brown sugar or molasses for storage then mix at a 1/500 ratio.
Pretty simple!
Theres tonnes of info online. Such a stupid name for it though haha