Strain Chasing - Can it be a dead end?

Hey All,

When Legalization came to Oklahoma I became enamoured with Forbidden Fruit, it checked a lot of boxes of what I was looking for in a strain. Tons of flavor and an agreeable experience. I was in love. When I saw it on a menu I would drive out of my way, and would usually pay more than I generally allocated for my cannabis. After a minute, the strain is rarely offered. This was a big factor in my desire to grow and have access to the strain.

My first grow I had bought the seeds, but due to my clumsiness I lost the seeds, one by one, during germination. Fast forward a little more than 4 months, I have my first grow under my belt, and I start researching seeds for the next run. Of course I start looking at FF seeds, but noticed that the genetics are being sold predominantly by White Label distributors (RQS, BlimBurn, ect).

Since my intent is to have a steady, reproducible, strain, the idea of investing the time in growing something that I might not be able to reproduce in the future has me changing my focus on just finding an analog from a repudiable breeder with purportedly stable genetics (Giving Brothers Grimm a go). It seems like more work than trying to match a smoking experience I had from commercial cannabis, but it seems like it would be more appropriate for my desires.

Am I mistaken, should I still try to grow the white label seeds with the hope of finding the grail that I seek?

TIA

Nothing wrong with growing the seeds if ya got em, but they ain't gonna be the grail you seek.

Pretty much all those seed companies you listed are untrustworthy to some degree when it comes to the genetics actually being what they claim they are.

FF is a state-side clone. I would only trust breeders in the US working with it. Start with the most reputable big names like CSI or Bodhi. Both have done work with FF, and you know they have the real deal.

Probably lots of lesser-known breeders working with it too, and likely overcharging for their packs of over-hype, but at least they have the real deal. If that's your bag, IG is the place to follow such things.

I think FF the clone is pretty tightly held. Think I saw it offered for sale once with a some ridiculous price tag (to me anyway).

MtRainDog said:

Nothing wrong with growing the seeds if ya got em, but they ain't gonna be the grail you seek.

Pretty much all those seed companies you listed are untrustworthy to some degree when it comes to the genetics actually being what they claim they are.

FF is a state-side clone. I would only trust breeders in the US working with it. Start with the most reputable big names like CSI or Bodhi. Both have done work with FF, and you know they have the real deal.

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Could you elaborate on the untrustworthiness of BG genetics?

I saw and was rec'ed CSIs FFxPurple punch. I will count this as a second vote for. I was kind of sticker shocked with their seed prices (primarily since I am still learning). I will have more than enough seeds after my last purchase to be able to eat the loss if things go sideways.

Thanks!

PopeCrisco said:

Could you elaborate on the untrustworthiness of BG genetics?

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Maybe untrustworthy is a little harsh.. since I've never grown any BG gear. All I can say is approach a lot of these breeders with a healthy sense of skepticism. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors across the pond with this stuff. Always has been. There is in the states too, but there are some differences.

If you follow the clone world, being able to verify where cuts came from is a big deal. Lots of fakes out there (along with diseases and pests). Pretty much every breeder I follow, we can reasonably go find out exactly what they're using in their crosses.

You won't get that from across the pond. They are mostly white label seed distributors. Most of them are buying seeds in bulk from spain and selling it to you as whatever they slap on the label. You can't go track what clone they're using because in reality, they have no idea. And this is nothing new. Even the big names there have been doing this forever.

As for Bros Grimm, I don't know what plants they still have or don't have these days. But the fact that people look elsewhere for c99, and a lot lackluster reports on their modern gear says something.

All those mentioned are good seed companies. Holy grails come once in a lifetime...lol. I think you just want some good seed and your headed in the right direction. Yeah, they can be pricey. Ya got MLK and Valentine's Day coming. There will be sales if ya can wait. Best time to pick up seed is November black Friday sales.

Gathering good seed is only the first step. I hope ya got a good environment to grow them in
Good luck

Fatjoe said:

All those mentioned are good seed companies. Holy grails come once in a lifetime...lol. I think you just want some good seed and your headed in the right direction. Yeah, they can be pricey. Ya got MLK and Valentine's Day coming. There will be sales if ya can wait. Best time to pick up seed is November black Friday sales.

Gathering good seed is only the first step. I hope ya got a good environment to grow them in
Good luck

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The reason I went with BGS for the next run was due to their pricing and end of year deals. for 145 I ended up with 5 strains and 51 seeds.
Since my first run was successful by my standards, and those of who I was/am learning from, I am trying to recreate most of what I did originally, and tweaking a few things (using the same growing medium, topdressing earlier, adding LST clips, monitoring and adjusting my water's PH).

Gracias.

I stopped buying from local dispensaries for a similar reason - I'd find a particular strain I really liked, but it wouldn't stick around. Growing my own, if I find a plant I like I can (a) have way more of it than I'd buy at the store, and (b) clone it and grow it again.

Keep in mind if you're growing from seed, there's definitely gonna be variations even within the same strain, especially with the modern polyhybrid strains that aren't always worked over multiple generations. Even if you buy seeds of the strain you liked from a reputable place, you'll probably have to grow a few plants out before finding one that matches what you bought at the dispensary.

My guess would be most medium-to-large-scale producers aren't growing from seed, they either buy clones or keep mothers so they can have consistency from round to round, which you won't get growing from seed.

I've told this story a few times.....There was a guy who went around to various weed shops and made YouTube videos....One day, he decided that he would go around to a bunch of different shops and buy just Blue Dream, exclusively, from each place. After that, he compared each one and guess what.....*drum roll*.....NONE of them were the same! Some were kinda similar, but for the most part, they were as different as you could get.

Good luck on finding ANY type of consistency with weed these days. There's so much hype and bullshit going on....ridiculous.

Having said that, there are a few places I've bought seeds from that seem to be consistent....but those places are focused on their own, specific breeding lines which might not tick all the boxes for what you're looking for.

Forbidden Fruit is yet another complex hybrid that runs through all kinds of different strains -some of which are still locked in mystery (F1 Durban, for example). Even when you do a Google image search, it turns up lots of examples that look nothing alike. That's because each one of the other strains that are in a hybrid may have been made from unique phenotypes of each.

In my opinion, your best bet is to chase terpene profiles rather than strain names. Obviously, FF is a fruity strain and God knows there are plenty of those out there. You're likely to find something similar.

• Beta-Myrcene: 26.97%
• D-Limonene: 19.39%
• Beta-Caryophyllene: 15.28%
• Terpinolene: 14.71%
• Other Terpenes: 23.65%

Even you, as a grower, may run across a seed line that ticks all the boxes, but, since you're dealing with complex hybrids, you're very likely (100%) to get variable expressions from grow-to-grow. You'd have to find "the" one and then clone it forever. In my experience, even running clones of the same thing gets old after awhile. I become "taste-blind" and need something different.

tstick said:

I've told this story a few times.....There was a guy who went around to various weed shops and made YouTube videos....One day, he decided that he would go around to a bunch of different shops and buy just Blue Dream, exclusively, from each place. After that, he compared each one and guess what.....*drum roll*.....NONE of them were the same! Some were kinda similar, but for the most part, they were as different as you could get.


In my opinion, your best bet is to chase terpene profiles rather than strain names. Obviously, FF is a fruity strain and God knows there are plenty of those out there. You're likely to find something similar.

• Beta-Myrcene: 26.97%
• D-Limonene: 19.39%
• Beta-Caryophyllene: 15.28%
• Terpinolene: 14.71%
• Other Terpenes: 23.65%

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I worked at a dispo and we grew all of our product. Every grow (same strain) would turn out a little different. From THC levels to terpene levels. Always used the same grow parameters and techniques.

@tstick makes a great and valid point. There are similar strains to FF out there. Looking at terpenes will help you find something close to you want.

Anytime you're dealing with genetics, it's a crap shoot. Even identical twins, aren't going to have identical dna, due to mutations that may occur during cell division.

You’ve gotten some good advice here. Genetics are always a crap shoot. Even buying clones from someone you will usually get a different end result because of the various differences between the grow environments. I’ve given people clones so many times over the years and they NEVER have turned out anything like the version from my garden. Not because I was special, but because the genetics had been pheno hunted for a my gardens environment.

I am a firm believer in hunting genetics that will grow well in YOUR environment. Sometimes that means running through lots of seeds. I don’t count on finding a winner growing a 10 pack of seeds. It happens some times. I’ve had several plants that checked all the boxes and I was able to keep healthy and growing for 5+ years. Just as amazing as the first time. I also grew many packs of seeds over the years to find those winners.

Brothers Grimm has had some great genetics over the years, so if that’s who you are running this season it’s a solid start. I’ve actually got a single seed of their original release Cindy99 I’m dieng to get a chance to try to grow and perhaps refresh the genetics.

MtRainDog said:

Nothing wrong with growing the seeds if ya got em, but they ain't gonna be the grail you seek.

Pretty much all those seed companies you listed are untrustworthy to some degree when it comes to the genetics actually being what they claim they are.

FF is a state-side clone. I would only trust breeders in the US working with it. Start with the most reputable big names like CSI or Bodhi. Both have done work with FF, and you know they have the real deal.

Probably lots of lesser-known breeders working with it too, and likely overcharging for their packs of over-hype, but at least they have the real deal. If that's your bag, IG is the place to follow such things.

I think FF the clone is pretty tightly held. Think I saw it offered for sale once with a some ridiculous price tag (to me anyway).

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I think there's a few in Spain and the like that have her already I think I've seen it offered here in the UK as well

I found a few dope strains before I hunted one down for myself just asking people how it turned out. Hunting down something I dont even have mqny boxes to check and its not easy. Let alone trying to find that one strain that was just like before.

I have questions myself though like, when someone sells you THAT gg4 or that blue cheese or that trainwreck.. How did it turn out so remarkably similar? Not barely a difference to point out. Over the span of 5 yrs I got some again and was like yup this is that stuff.

I feel like its a really hard task that Id just find something better and underrated before THAT same thing. I did too. I love everything I have. About to sample a new strain in a couple days I cut some buds cant wait to test it. So far its cooler than anything Ive grown or even seen.

Though its like, who grew that gg4 I was loving for a decade straight? Is josey whales the original breeder.. Theyre available but heard theyre bunk but someone here reversed them and has better. I can try to get that but you see how its already taking me a different direction than a marketed sale on a major seed bank?

Thats just an example that sounds easy in theory. I run into that when I attempt to revive a past cannabis experience but many missing pieces and romours etc. I grew the same clone for a year and its different every time I grow it.

So its interesting like, will I even get THAT gg4 I recognize growing up? Just sounds bland I tend to get very exited growing and consuming things that are just so unique.

If it were that gg4 though does that mean its the same grower and enviorment? Just a real dedicated attempt to find that same thing so people can say yup thats that stuff?

Almost in the realm of breeding which Im looking into.. You could create your own strain with that kind of effort seems like. Unless all the pieces are there like who made it, where to buy, how hard is it to find that pheno.

medidedicated said:

I have questions myself though like, when someone sells you THAT gg4 or that blue cheese or that trainwreck.. How did it turn out so remarkably similar? Not barely a difference to point out. Over the span of 5 yrs I got some again and was like yup this is that stuff.

I grew the same clone for a year and it’s different every time I grow it.

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As far as finding things similar to previous experiences it happens because the genetics are there to give those results in the right conditions. Particularly when using clones. It’s also vital to keep the genetics healthy and pathogen free or they can change over time.

White widow was the first plant I experienced strain recognition with. I had smoked what was called “white widow” a bunch of times it was dank weed. Then when I grew a single Freebie seed from G13 labs and it tasted and smelled exactly like what I had been buying from a friend I was confident it was infact WW.

with regards to your grow medicated, I have been following your progress the last year. And I would say a big reason your results keep changing with the same clone is because your garden has been consistently changing. You’ve gone through a variety of evolutions and there had undoubtedly been some big differences in the grow environment through that. Also unless the grow area is really well set up and dialed, then seasonal changes in most parts of the world will naturally change your environment throughout the year.

This is why I make own soil and all compost and conditioners. My cover/companion crop is regenerative, my inputs stay the same. I let mother nature do the work biologically. And I control the environmental parameters. Consistency is key and really helps me rule out variables in my breeding. I know what to look for, I've seen it before. Nothing changes unless it's something New I'm working with.

100% agree with focusing on terp profiles with today's hybrid scene. You'll find a banger eventually, but all that frost doesn't stack up if the desired/ required terps aren't there.

It's actually disappointing what the industry has turned into. Soo much greed and false claims. Unnecessary diluted BS that has a catchy name.
At the end of the day unless your working with landrace and starting something from scratch, it's all just another dick dodging hybrid of a hybrid of a hybrid.