They dont look good

Hey guys! The girls are having some issues, but not clear on what is the main reason. It started right after I went on a trip and asked my buddy to water them - left the PHed/nute mix with the instructions on how to water, knowing that he would need only to do this once and that the pots wouldn't dry out. Yet, when I came back, the pots were dry and the girls barely pulled through. Since then the yellowing started and the burnt spots and the growth has come to a stop. It's week 9, the buds don't seem to be bulking up and have next to no smell. My research suggested that due to the drought, the roots stopped absorbing potassium, so I jumped to that! Added more K, cut off the CalMag (as far as I know - too much CalMag can lead to K lockout). So I flushed and checked the soil PH - it was approximately 5.8. Now I started to feed them with PH 7.0 water and still no improvement. Sorry guys for the long rant. Has anybody any ideas or experience with this kind of problem?
2 plants - soil - Royal Gorilla - Royal Queen seeds

week 9 of flower?

Farmer's Hat said:

week 9 of flower?

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Yep! They just stopped bulking and look about the same for 2 weeks now

Its possible that they are simply stunted. How are the roots looking?

Alcaponez said:

Hey guys! The girls are having some issues, but not clear on what is the main reason. It started right after I went on a trip and asked my buddy to water them - left the PHed/nute mix with the instructions on how to water, knowing that he would need only to do this once and that the pots wouldn't dry out. Yet, when I came back, the pots were dry and the girls barely pulled through. Since then the yellowing started and the burnt spots and the growth has come to a stop. It's week 9, the buds don't seem to be bulking up and have next to no smell. My research suggested that due to the drought, the roots stopped absorbing potassium, so I jumped to that! Added more K, cut off the CalMag (as far as I know - too much CalMag can lead to K lockout). So I flushed and checked the soil PH - it was approximately 5.8. Now I started to feed them with PH 7.0 water and still no improvement. Sorry guys for the long rant. Has anybody any ideas or experience with this kind of problem?
2 plants - soil - Royal Gorilla - Royal Queen seeds

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pH can drift significantly in pre-mixed nutes over time

Farmer's Hat said:

Its possible that they are simply stunted. How are the roots looking?

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I can't say, really I don't know how to check that in soil filled pots.

Sir Napsalot said:

pH can drift significantly in pre-mixed nutes over time

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Didn't know that, thanks mate!

Alcaponez said:

the pots were dry and the girls barely pulled through.

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Difficult to believe letting the soil dry too far would really do such a thing. Droop from no water, sure, but lockout and deficiency etc is likely from something else imo.
In my own experience lack of water is usually a quick fix and they perk back to full health within minutes, can almost watch it happen, it's fast.
I'm not suggesting to dry the soil to the point of plant droop or wilt, only mean to say you'd be surprised how little water they actually need at any given time.
It's good to let the soil dry, though it's equally important to irrigate thoroughly when you do water, until you get some runoff. More about texture and Water Holding Capacity in your soil or substrate, rather than the water you're supplying. Roots can't stand sitting in stagnant water and excess nutrients or dissolved solids need to be able to drain.
If anything, more important is proper drainage and soil aeration. Roots love and crave oxygen.

Alcaponez said:

Added more K, cut off the CalMag (as far as I know - too much CalMag can lead to K lockout).

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Nitrogen, Calcium and Magnesium can antagonize Potassium, but too much Potassium has a lockout effect as well. (You can get potassium lockout or deficiency from adding too much K)

Alcaponez said:

So I flushed and checked the soil PH - it was approximately 5.8. Now I started to feed them with PH 7.0 water and still no improvement.

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Runoff isn't an accurate pH measurement for soil, I wouldn't rely on the accuracy. Need to test via soil sample and soil test kit by making a paste or slurry.
And, if the soil pH is indeed low, you won't shift it with plain water alone, you'll need something like dolomite lime.
I don't really think it's worth chasing pH at this point 9 weeks into your grow, better to just coast it from here, easy does it.
Just worry about your input pH and EC, drain the pot well.
Do you have an EC/ppm meter?

Alcaponez said:

Didn't know that, thanks mate!

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Worth mixing some and checking a few days later, see if the pH drifts, might be your explanation.
Low pH will lockout K.

Alcaponez said:

and still no improvement

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I wouldn't look for improvement as much I'd look for it to stop or slow down, what's done is done this point.
Don't go chasing ghosts changing nutes, adding more K etc, do what was working before you went away.

BongerChonger said:

Difficult to believe letting the soil dry too far would really do such a thing. Droop from no water, sure, but lockout and deficiency etc is likely from something else imo.
In my own experience lack of water is usually a quick fix and they perk back to full health within minutes, can almost watch it happen, it's fast.
I'm not suggesting to dry the soil to the point of plant droop or wilt, only mean to say you'd be surprised how little water they actually need at any given time.
It's good to let the soil dry, though it's equally important to irrigate thoroughly when you do water, until you get some runoff. More about texture and Water Holding Capacity in your soil or substrate, rather than the water you're supplying. Roots can't stand sitting in stagnant water and excess nutrients or dissolved solids need to be able to drain.
If anything, more important is proper drainage and soil aeration. Roots love and crave oxygen.

Nitrogen, Calcium and Magnesium can antagonize Potassium, but too much Potassium has a lockout effect as well. (You can get potassium lockout or deficiency from adding too much K)

Runoff isn't an accurate pH measurement for soil, I wouldn't rely on the accuracy. Need to test via soil sample and soil test kit by making a paste or slurry.
And, if the soil pH is indeed low, you won't shift it with plain water alone, you'll need something like dolomite lime.
I don't really think it's worth chasing pH at this point 9 weeks into your grow, better to just coast it from here, easy does it.
Just worry about your input pH and EC, drain the pot well.
Do you have an EC/ppm meter?

Worth mixing some and checking a few days later, see if the pH drifts, might be your explanation.
Low pH will lockout K.

I wouldn't look for improvement as much I'd look for it to stop or slow down, what's done is done this point.
Don't go chasing ghosts changing nutes, adding more K etc, do what was working before you went away.

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Damn, thanks for the effort! You're probably right on all counts. The drying out part was probably just the last drop to to the stress they already had, that's why the problems got more severe. I mean looked like my buddy just dumped the water all at once and the soil didnt get saturated properly. The canopy was beyond any droop I've encountered, they were on the verge of dying.

I guess my main mistake was that I didnt check the nute labels properly and overfed them with CalMag - the basic nutes had calmag, I added some extra calmag and to be extra stupid, I was top-dressing wit some silica now and then, that also contains Mg. Didn't have any problems up to the point I went on a trip - they looked perfect - apart from the little burnt tips that I mistook for light burn.
I checked the PH by making a soil slurry with PHed RO water to 7.0, the slurry dropped to 5.9, also the PPM was about 600. So it all made sence to me at the time.

Relatively new to growing and still learning, will do better next time! The good news is the girls bounced back a bit and started bulking a bit, starting to see some milky trichomes, will harvest soon.

In conclusion, I'm definitely going organic for the next grow! But I don't have the resources to make my own compost or making compost tees, or access to a lot of ingredients to build a super soil. Maybe you have some advice or videos you can share on this topic, that would be greatly appreciated.

Alcaponez said:

Damn, thanks for the effort! You're probably right on all counts. The drying out part was probably just the last drop to to the stress they already had, that's why the problems got more severe. I mean looked like my buddy just dumped the water all at once and the soil didnt get saturated properly. The canopy was beyond any droop I've encountered, they were on the verge of dying.

I guess my main mistake was that I didnt check the nute labels properly and overfed them with CalMag - the basic nutes had calmag, I added some extra calmag and to be extra stupid, I was top-dressing wit some silica now and then, that also contains Mg. Didn't have any problems up to the point I went on a trip - they looked perfect - apart from the little burnt tips that I mistook for light burn.
I checked the PH by making a soil slurry with PHed RO water to 7.0, the slurry dropped to 5.9, also the PPM was about 600. So it all made sence to me at the time.

Relatively new to growing and still learning, will do better next time! The good news is the girls bounced back a bit and started bulking a bit, starting to see some milky trichomes, will harvest soon.

In conclusion, I'm definitely going organic for the next grow! But I don't have the resources to make my own compost or making compost tees, or access to a lot of ingredients to build a super soil. Maybe you have some advice or videos you can share on this topic, that would be greatly appreciated.

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Check out these soils and determine what is in your price range: Great Lakes water only soil (has enough nutes to get you through about 4-5 weeks). Look at the ingredients it is a great soil, I have been using now and plants love it. It is considered green but not certified organic. Also look at a mixture of Fox Farms Happy Frog and Ocean mix. I use a 50/50 ratio of this, but the bottom of my pot has a straight Ocen portion and the middle the 50/50 mix and the top third 2/3 HF and 1/3 Ocean. The Ocean stuff is strong it is hot for seedlings, so that is why the mix. Again enough nutes for the first 4-5 weeks. Then I have been using Green Leaf Nutes Mega Crop, Bud Explosion and Sweet Candy to all my girls. These are all organic for the majority of their formulas, but again are not certified. Check out their post on the sponsor pages, well go towards the last say 4 or 5 pages as it goes way back. I enjoy soil growing and more natural fertilizers & soils versus synthetics used in hydro or strictly coco. Just me. The simpler the better.

Alcaponez said:

Relatively new to growing and still learning, will do better next time! The good news is the girls bounced back a bit and started bulking a bit, starting to see some milky trichomes, will harvest soon.

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You're doing fine! Best thing about this hobby, always learning.
If I may, you still have weeks to go looking at your pictures. Leave checking trichomes until the plant's filled out nice and barely, if any, white pistils. You've got a ton of new growth in the buds there, be patient. It's all yield at the end of the day and it'll be better quality too.

Alcaponez said:

I checked the PH by making a soil slurry with PHed RO water to 7.0, the slurry dropped to 5.9, also the PPM was about 600. So it all made sence to me at the time.

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Well, could have been low pH all along, if that is indeed true.
Try 2 parts distilled or RO water to 1 part soil, by weight, test the slurry after several minutes. Don't pH the water for the slurry, it's important there's nothing in the water at all.
You've got a good few to several weeks left, so if your soil pH is low which it seems, I think it'd be good time for dolomite lime.
What size are your pots?

Alcaponez said:

The drying out part was probably just the last drop to to the stress they already had, that's why the problems got more severe. I mean looked like my buddy just dumped the water all at once and the soil didnt get saturated properly. The canopy was beyond any droop I've encountered, they were on the verge of dying.

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That sounds like a drainage problem. If you're finding you're having to water really slowly to saturate all the soil, then you need better drainage in your soil. More perlite.
Organic soil it's a call for organic matter, so it can help break up the soil into smaller pieces.
But whilst running nutes it's perlite all day! Needs to properly drain, not just out the pot, but in the soil too.
Poor draining and heavy soils can also become acidic given time.

Alcaponez said:

In conclusion, I'm definitely going organic for the next grow! But I don't have the resources to make my own compost or making compost tees, or access to a lot of ingredients to build a super soil. Maybe you have some advice or videos you can share on this topic, that would be greatly appreciated.

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Organics is a great way to learn about growing in my own opinion, probably the best. So much to think about and take into consideration, plus there's so many choices for organic material to use. So much out there!
Shop around, there's dry organic products now with the right NPK etc as a top dressing , all you need is soil and water. Indoors I'd try and keep it simple as can be.
If you have the option, give outdoor grown in the ground a go, loads of fun. Very rewarding given a good season.

Alcaponez said:

In conclusion, I'm definitely going organic for the next grow!

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Same time, don't give up on "not organic" lol.
I think if you added more perlite to your soil next-time, you'd have a better experience all round.

Fladawg01 said:

Check out these soils and determine what is in your price range: Great Lakes water only soil (has enough nutes to get you through about 4-5 weeks). Look at the ingredients it is a great soil, I have been using now and plants love it. It is considered green but not certified organic. Also look at a mixture of Fox Farms Happy Frog and Ocean mix. I use a 50/50 ratio of this, but the bottom of my pot has a straight Ocen portion and the middle the 50/50 mix and the top third 2/3 HF and 1/3 Ocean. The Ocean stuff is strong it is hot for seedlings, so that is why the mix. Again enough nutes for the first 4-5 weeks. Then I have been using Green Leaf Nutes Mega Crop, Bud Explosion and Sweet Candy to all my girls. These are all organic for the majority of their formulas, but again are not certified. Check out their post on the sponsor pages, well go towards the last say 4 or 5 pages as it goes way back. I enjoy soil growing and more natural fertilizers & soils versus synthetics used in hydro or strictly coco. Just me. The simpler the better.

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Thanks for the recommendations, but that's the thing - where I'm from this stuff isn't available and the market is lacking a lot! I was thinking of making my own soil - getting good quality compost, adding worm castings and the other stuff. The problem is other stuff - there is next to no options on getting bone meal, blood meal, bat guano, kelp or most of the additives that are required. Most of it is available only in large/industrial sized packaging - like 200 lbs bags. But I'll get there, I'm not one to give up on these things.