Uninsured ER patients twice as likely to die

FlyLikeAnEagle · Nov 16, 2009

This should make all you right wingers happy since you want them to die quicker anyway.

CHICAGO - Uninsured patients with traumatic injuries, such as car crashes, falls and gunshot wounds, were almost twice as likely to die in the hospital as similarly injured patients with health insurance, according to a troubling new study.

The findings by Harvard University researchers surprised doctors and health experts who have believed emergency room care was equitable.

"This is another drop in a sea of evidence that the uninsured fare much worse in their health in the United States," said senior author Dr. Atul Gawande, a Harvard surgeon and medical journalist.

more at
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33971846/ns/health-health_care/

stalebiscuit · Nov 16, 2009

this isnt anything, one article making outrageous claims?

how did they conduct the research? who did they look at? is this true in urban or rural areas?

i tend to not trust shit like this. also think about this, if everyone gets insured by the government, are we all more or less likely to die? cool we evened the playing field, except more folks are dieing

heres my problem with the health care reform. ahem. it doesnt make sense to me or 90% of americans. the language is convoluted, with different interests pulling in different directions. also, i dont know why this is an issue now, it really should be a non-issue when we have more important things to worry about (two "wars" still going on, iran and venezuala blatant aggressive attitude towards the us and its allies, a troubling unemployment rate, a falling economy, but no, that shit aint important, its all about healthcare all fo a sudden. its like when clinton got elected and they tried to pass the 1993 UHC bill)

its just coming on to fast, and of course obama supporters rally behind him when he never really stressed his healthcare plan during his speeches before he was elected. but this isnt even about obama, its about the government interfering where they have no business

when is it the government job to provide all these services, to protect us from "ourselves"

social security, countless welfare and public works projects, mis-management of funds and corruption

WHY THE FUCK DO ANY OF YALL THINK THE MOTHER FUCKING GOVERNMENT WOULD MAKE A GOOD HEALTHCARE PROVIDER?

thats what i wanna know

FlyLikeAnEagle · Nov 16, 2009

stalebiscuit said:
this isnt anything, one article making outrageous claims?

i tend to not trust shit like this.

Yea because studies done by Harvard are done by liars with an agenda. :roll:

BadDog40 · Nov 16, 2009

To all Dems,

Naw, we don't need to fix health care.

Cheers,
Republican Taliban

doc111 · Nov 16, 2009

I don't buy it. I was a paramedic for almost 20 years for a major metropolitan fire dept. They don't even know if you have insurance or not when you come through the door with a traumatic injury and those doctors and nurses don't care. They are paid the same either way. Harvard does have a very left wing agenda so be careful what you believe. I am pretty sure that this survey is baseless and anyone who knows anything about statistics knows how easy it is to skew the results. Don't believe everything you read.....especially surveys. :roll:

mossad420 · Nov 16, 2009

stalebiscuit said:
this isnt anything, one article making outrageous claims?

how did they conduct the research? who did they look at? is this true in urban or rural areas?

i tend to not trust shit like this. also think about this, if everyone gets insured by the government, are we all more or less likely to die? cool we evened the playing field, except more folks are dieing

heres my problem with the health care reform. ahem. it doesnt make sense to me or 90% of americans. the language is convoluted, with different interests pulling in different directions. also, i dont know why this is an issue now, it really should be a non-issue when we have more important things to worry about (two "wars" still going on, iran and venezuala blatant aggressive attitude towards the us and its allies, a troubling unemployment rate, a falling economy, but no, that shit aint important, its all about healthcare all fo a sudden. its like when clinton got elected and they tried to pass the 1993 UHC bill)

its just coming on to fast, and of course obama supporters rally behind him when he never really stressed his healthcare plan during his speeches before he was elected. but this isnt even about obama, its about the government interfering where they have no business

when is it the government job to provide all these services, to protect us from "ourselves"

social security, countless welfare and public works projects, mis-management of funds and corruption

WHY THE FUCK DO ANY OF YALL THINK THE MOTHER FUCKING GOVERNMENT WOULD MAKE A GOOD HEALTHCARE PROVIDER?

thats what i wanna know

well your certainly right about shit coming on too fast - thats why i dont get how there are still so many people either unaware or in denial.

shit is about to hit the global fan. this new economy plan is just one more big ass bailout imo, and who will end up paying for it? Us, Not the multi-billion dollar companies who fucked up and got bailed out over and over. I just hope the world wakes up to this. I'm happy fighting for a cause like this. Fuck the mid-east wars over oil and money, this is a real reason to fight, freedom.

jeff f · Nov 16, 2009

so then tell them to buy insurance.

mossad420 · Nov 16, 2009

doc111 said:
I don't buy it. I was a paramedic for almost 20 years for a major metropolitan fire dept. They don't even know if you have insurance or not when you come through the door with a traumatic injury and those doctors and nurses don't care. They are paid the same either way. Harvard does have a very left wing agenda so be careful what you believe. I am pretty sure that this survey is baseless and anyone who knows anything about statistics knows how easy it is to skew the results. Don't believe everything you read.....especially surveys.

agreed this is just one of the "facts" the elite want us to be aware of when considering their new health care bill.

zomg better vote yes youre twice as likely to live.

doc111 · Nov 16, 2009

This really pisses me off. Now I want everyone who reads this to think for 2 seconds. What E.R. anywhere in the country is going through gunshot victims wallets when they come through the door and saying "He doesn't have insurance. I guess this one's gonna die." This is the most assinine thing I've ever heard of in my entire life! People need to get a clue. E.R. workers don't get paid by the car accident victim. They usually get paid a salary or by the hour. Not one E.R. worker I've ever met gives 2 shits whether the people they help have insurance. Seriously people. :dunce:

FlyLikeAnEagle · Nov 16, 2009

doc111 said:
This really pisses me off. Now I want everyone who reads this to think for 2 seconds. What E.R. anywhere in the country is going through gunshot victims wallets when they come through the door and saying "He doesn't have insurance. I guess this one's gonna die." This is the most assinine thing I've ever heard of in my entire life! People need to get a clue. E.R. workers don't get paid by the car accident victim. They usually get paid a salary or by the hour. Not one E.R. worker I've ever met gives 2 shits whether the people they help have insurance. Seriously people.

What you fail to realize is the care provided AFTER the person is stabilized. From hospital dumping to less specialized care to less effective (cheaper) medication to less time being treated all equals a lower level of care. Can ya get that one?

redivider · Nov 16, 2009

doc111 said:
This really pisses me off. Now I want everyone who reads this to think for 2 seconds. What E.R. anywhere in the country is going through gunshot victims wallets when they come through the door and saying "He doesn't have insurance. I guess this one's gonna die." This is the most assinine thing I've ever heard of in my entire life! People need to get a clue. E.R. workers don't get paid by the car accident victim. They usually get paid a salary or by the hour. Not one E.R. worker I've ever met gives 2 shits whether the people they help have insurance. Seriously people.

well, I don't know where you're from. but where I'm from they've privatized ambulances, and general paramedic services. Ambulances carry logos of companies and such. the company is required to fill out insurance papers for billing purposes, private insurance pays more. So if you know that a kid falls off his bike, and breaks his leg in a high-end neighborhood, and you hear a call for a stab victim that's in critical condition, the ambulances ARE more likely to go to the higher end neighborhood, where people are more likely to have insurance, because it pays more for the ride......

that type of scenario. and yes, it does happen.

jeff f · Nov 16, 2009

redivider said:
well, I don't know where you're from. but where I'm from they've privatized ambulances, and general paramedic services. Ambulances carry logos of companies and such. the company is required to fill out insurance papers for billing purposes, private insurance pays more. So if you know that a kid falls off his bike, and breaks his leg in a high-end neighborhood, and you hear a call for a stab victim that's in critical condition, the ambulances ARE more likely to go to the higher end neighborhood, where people are more likely to have insurance, because it pays more for the ride......

that type of scenario. and yes, it does happen.

you know red, that is the most well thought out and written argument i ever heard come out of your mouth....not literally of course we are on the internet ;-)

i would hate to think that really happens but i am sure it does. i dont think that is what the study was trying to say, but i didnt read all the support data either. i think the report was saying once inside the hospital doors. if i am wrong i rescind the above :lol:

mossad420 · Nov 16, 2009

FlyLikeAnEagle said:
What you fail to realize is the care provided AFTER the person is stabilized. From hospital dumping to less specialized care to less effective (cheaper) medication to less time being treated all equals a lower level of care. Can ya get that one?

you make a good point but still, twice as likely? those "good" drugs must be hella expensive lol. In all seriousness though, I know this type of shit happens. It's not as simple as walking in to emerg and being told you die b/c no insurance.

bottom line, us health care = fucked up

new health care bill = arguably as fucked up as the health care situation itself if you look into it. (required RFID Chipping etc, yay for us growers especially)

very bottom line: why can't we all spread the wealth, get stoned and grow some dank?

doc111 · Nov 16, 2009

What you all fail to realize is that once the patient is stabilized they don't just dump them on the curb. Does care suffer sometimes? Yes, but what they are not telling you is how compliant are the patients. How many of them are mentally ill homeless patients or gang members who might have an interest in leaving before they are patched up all the way to avoid questioning from the police. Privatized ambulances or not they do not sit around cherry picking runs. I've worked for private ambulance services as well. I won't go so far as to say that care doesn't get delayed but it doesn't happen all the time like the survey may want you to think. Look at some of the other reasons people may die after being stabilized instead of demonizing healthcare professionals who could care less what kind of insurance a person has. Utter crap! And if you think things will get better if the govt. takes over healthcare, think again.

medicineman · Nov 16, 2009

I agree with fly. It is the aftercare that kills em, like "say yokel, got money, got insurance, no"? "Go fuck yourself"! That's the great American health care system.

angelsbandit · Nov 16, 2009

This is bullshit......

Who are the uninsured?

Illegal immigrants, and those who chose to spend their money on other things make up the bulk of the uninsured.

Those who are actually too poor to afford insurance are covered by government programs if they were not too lazy to put in the work required to get on the government programs.

doc111 · Nov 16, 2009

angelsbandit said:
This is bullshit......

Who are the uninsured?

Illegal immigrants, and those who chose to spend their money on other things make up the bulk of the uninsured.

Those who are actually too poor to afford insurance are covered by government programs if they were not too lazy to put in the work required to get on the government programs.

Illegal immigrants are getting medicaid. Aftercare is what kills these people because they don't follow up. The city I used to work in had more than one place people could go and get free care. You can't force people to give a shit and get follow up care for their injuries and illnesses. I'm sorry folks but this is an area in which most of the people talking have very little real world experience.

jeff f · Nov 16, 2009

doc111 said:
Look at some of the other reasons people may die after being stabilized instead of demonizing healthcare professionals who could care less what kind of insurance a person has. Utter crap! And if you think things will get better if the govt. takes over healthcare, think again.

boy.... or girl, dont really know ya....you said a mouthful there. dont you love how they demonize the people who are actually out there doing it. remember numb nuts obama criticized docs for rippin out tonsils to get more money and sawing off legs for 30 grand a whack. the real cost is something like 3K. anybody who makes money is bad. this fucker never met a hard working person he didnt hate.

doc111 · Nov 16, 2009

jeff f said:
boy.... or girl, dont really know ya....you said a mouthful there. dont you love how they demonize the people who are actually out there doing it. remember numb nuts obama criticized docs for rippin out tonsils to get more money and sawing off legs for 30 grand a whack. the real cost is something like 3K. anybody who makes money is bad. this fucker never met a hard working person he didnt hate.

I get worked up about this government takeover of healthcare. I've been to countries where they have socialized medicine. It's great for the guy who breaks an arm, not so good for the woman who gets breast cancer. Not gonna say socialized medicine is all bad, but I want to see healthcare improve not the opposite. If I thought for one minute that the govt would improve it I would be the first one in line to say "We have to make this happen". The reality is we all will be giving up a little bit more of our freedom if this passes and we will be no closer to fixing healthcare. I'd like someone with real world medical experience to disagree with me so I can debate them. I think you would have a difficult time finding one.

FlyLikeAnEagle · Nov 16, 2009

doc111 said:
What you all fail to realize is that once the patient is stabilized they don't just dump them on the curb.

You claim to have been a paremedic for 20 years and you think hospital dumping means throwing them on the street?? Wow.

Uninsured ER patients twice as likely to die

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