Upgrading my 400. STILL can't decide which route to take.t5 Side lighting? 1000w?CMH?

So currently i have a flowering room measuring 5ft wide by 3.5 deep 6ft talk. For light as of now i have a single 400w HPS. Sides are lined with very highly reflective mylar and the floor is painted a reflective white. Since that footprint is pretty far beyond the 400w and since i want the best i can get, i've decided to upgrade my lighting. I want to keep total lighting watts to under or around 1000. I have a few options;

Just switch out to a bigger light; maybe the new AN Badass digital ballast in 600 or 1k. This is the obvious and proven solution. More light=better results.

Suppliment my 400w with another 400w, the second one being a Ceramic Metal Halide, giving me both the yield and density of hps with the resin of a cmh. On this route i could also just switch in a cmh bulb in my current ballast and supplement with a 600w hps.

Leds. I am very interested in led technology, but dont have the money at the moment to buy 5 panels to do hps/led on top with led as side lighting. I think it could produce some great bud, but to get the right leds is just too much money, also keep in mind i would need the better leds as im not vegging with these.

T5s. Im not sure why i don't see this more often, but i am curious about just using t5s on each wall for side lighting. It would be 2 2 bulb 4ft units on the two long walls, equaling 200w, then 2 4 bulb 2ft units on the sides (4 fixtures total). Total watts would be around 400, lumen gain would be around 40,000. on top of the 400w hps thats 800 total plus the added benefit of all that light on the sides that normally would not be there, even for the higher watt hps. Could be useful once space gets full.


The last option would be create a vertical setup. again a 600 or 1k bulb in the center, with as much of a circle as i can fit in such a small area. Since my plant count would be low(around 6) I would likely have each plant(all soil) on a lazy susan and could rotate the plants on every visit.


So assuming a budget of about 500-1k and a max watt of about 1k what would you do to optimize lighting in a roughly 17 sq ft area? I am 100% open to new ideas(yes i have been eying the plasma lights)

personally here, i use T5s and I LOVE IT, and bought some cheap LEDs for 100 bucks to get 4 panels, 650NM and 465nm (i think) and when i flowering is stick them up, and i can tell you what, TIGHT buds and amazing resin. i use them at bottom of plant on the walls, so the bottom get nice big buds since very little light gets there. and then T5s on top. I love it and works great and not alot of heat, with HPS bulbs and upgrading to 1000 watt, man that is alot of heat. in a small space, u need nice ducting and fan to get it out, i suggest T5s and LEDs on the side, works amazing

Thats some of my logic, more light down low where my 400 doesnt hit=more budsites that actually grow.

I should note though that ducting and exhaust venting are not a major concern, at least not for the winter. Ive got the 400w hps light heating my room through some nice insulated ducting and an old air vent. I should be able to cool a 1000w no problem. related question though. I have a HTG euro hood, would i be able to fit a 1000w bulb in there? 6in in and out, glass sealed etc.

those are some cheap leds, do you have any more info on those? how many watts are they? was it 100 for 4 or 100 each?

i saw those advanced nutrients ballast, they came out 2 weeks after i bought my quantum.... they apparently, work on a lower frequency than conventional digital ballasts, which was a drawback to some. some people complain about interference from the quantums i hear. cable companies knockin on your door. ive read a few threads about that too. who knows if this ballast is any better. 5 year warranty on the badass instead of 3 on my quantum.

i waent to get some leds but just to toy with , i hear the penetration sucks , and i know u can get them lower to compensate but then your spread sucks. so i have been told.


i'd go for the 600watt advanced nutrients run a metal halide and hps combo and keep the money saved for a veg room or somthing

How did your last grow turn out? 400w seems adequate for a 5x3.5 area.

^ not really, I'd say acceptable at best. I mean I use a 400watter in a 2.5 x 3 ft closest and that works great. I mean a 400watter does def. work in a 3x5 but a 600-1000watter would be much more beneficial in utilizing that space.

The main issue i have with my 400 is that i have the light right over the plants, only a few inches away as it is adequately air cooled and no real heat comes off it. The problem is that if the plants grow uneven then the shorter plants get far less light. The other issue is that with the light this close the spread doesnt cover the whole room well at all.

I am getting fonder and fonder of the idea of a vertical setup with a 600-1000w. probably the 600.

and i too have a cheap led (30$ ebay panel 14w). I use it as side lighting now. For haloween i used it to light up a dead tree in my yard, it did a really nice job. Real threatening and a cool hue. I also grew an auto on just that light for a while. Just to see if it worked. I noticed slow growth, but the thing grew which surprised me.

Why dont we see T5s etc on all the walls of these smaller grow cabs? I mean 360 degree light seems like it would rock. Would heat become an issue(yes floros put of heat)?

they are a 108 for all 4, free shipping. i find it just adds some nice light for the bottoms and adds to the grow, just gives them that boost. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130328337048&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
i mean i am not telling you to grow on just these at all, because well you need to spend more like a grand for leds that will do that. these just give some direct light and help the grow out a decent amount

Feirefiz said:

those are some cheap leds, do you have any more info on those? how many watts are they? was it 100 for 4 or 100 each?

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Cheap, or inexpensive, LEDs are priced the way they are for one reason. Because they are crap. It is inexpensive LEDs that are responsible for LEDs getting a bad rap and for so many people saying LEDs are junk.

If someone is going to use LEDs they need to purchase the highest quality LEDs made and purchase them in sufficient numbers and know how to use them to their full potential or else they are wasting their money.

You cannot pay Kia prices and expect Mercedes quality or results.

karr said:

The main issue i have with my 400 is that i have the light right over the plants, only a few inches away as it is adequately air cooled and no real heat comes off it. The problem is that if the plants grow uneven then the shorter plants get far less light. The other issue is that with the light this close the spread doesnt cover the whole room well at all.

I am getting fonder and fonder of the idea of a vertical setup with a 600-1000w. probably the 600.

and i too have a cheap led (30$ ebay panel 14w). I use it as side lighting now. For haloween i used it to light up a dead tree in my yard, it did a really nice job. Real threatening and a cool hue. I also grew an auto on just that light for a while. Just to see if it worked. I noticed slow growth, but the thing grew which surprised me.

Why dont we see T5s etc on all the walls of these smaller grow cabs? I mean 360 degree light seems like it would rock. Would heat become an issue(yes floros put of heat)?

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Definitely go vert in that space - the 1K and 600 mounted in a reflector horizontally (depending on your growing medium/style) will severely cut down on your head room - if you have either of those inches away from your plants, light bleaching will happen fast and furious.

I'm running 4 stacked 600s inside my PVC structure - tried to go bare bulb but the AC couldn't keep up, so had to buy a custom cooltube - there's no easier way to increase yield than to go vertical and use all the light produced by the bulb.

i agree if you are going LED you really need to drop about grand on a light with 11 wavelengths. i am using what i am using because it adds some direct NM to my grow, and i can see the improvement in the buds and what not, but i would never run agrow just off those leds, i would then spend about a grand on a led light system for that.

Brick Top said:

Cheap, or inexpensive, LEDs are priced the way they are for one reason. Because they are crap. It is inexpensive LEDs that are responsible for LEDs getting a bad rap and for so many people saying LEDs are junk.

If someone is going to use LEDs they need to purchase the highest quality LEDs made and purchase them in sufficient numbers and know how to use them to their full potential or else they are wasting their money.

You cannot pay Kia prices and expect Mercedes quality or results.

Click to expand...

i wouldn't even look at leds for about a year, gonna be half the price with all the research developments and what not. Temporary technology. whatever they're sellin us now theres a new one already on the truck to replace it


thanks for the link karr

Thanks for the thoughts. And no, i really am not planning leds. i threw it out there to cover my bases for the most part. Like i said originally, just too expensive to get the right ones, and like said above, in a year the right ones may be affordable and then i've just wasted money on getting something a little quicker.

How about t5 side lighting? still no thoughts on 360 degree t5s with a 4 or 600 watter on top?

as for vertical setup, im loving that PVC rig, but i am not quite there yet haha. im looking at 6 to 10 plants tops flowering. i would LOVE one of those spinner units, but 2k is outta my range at this time. I am thinking a 600w or 1000w in a cooltube(just so i can sleep easier) with forced air up and out through ducting. a 1k vertical setup should do pretty nice. I dont think i have the room for a full circle, so it would most likely be bulb in the center against a wall or in a corner. Not sure yet.

I am throwing my shop light (2 tube 4ft with generic "Grow" lights inside, appear to be a veg spectrum) on one of the sides for a little side lighting, not that my tiny plants need any real help though haha.

Also Plasma REALLY interests me, again new technology that will probably be refined and reduced price.

here is one i found http://cgi.ebay.com/Plasma-Grow-Light-Plasms-Light-Bulb-300-watts-/200527967618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb065f582

Seems interesting, but i think they are using the lumix plasma technology which is a MH plasma, not the revered sulfur plasma. The mh plasma is said to lack the red spectrum to flower fully. Some of the systems use various red leds to boost the red end for flowering.

Im in talks with the distributor of the above, trying to get some answers.

interested in this subject too as I have a similar size areea using a digital 400w HPS all the way through, this harvest I did add 200w of cfl's for side lighting and it did make a difference of about 15-20% more buds on the middle and bottoms of the plants. I have also heard that red lights will help..?

Hogg

Lights with a larger amount of light in the red spectrum will help flowering more. So if you are adding CFLs get some that are around 2700k in temp, also known as soft light(versus daylight). There are also LED units with a lot of red only leds, too. Your hps is more weighted in the red spectrum than a Metal Halide for example.

no response as of yet for the plasma spectrum

Update with the plasma light linked above.

It does use the MH/argon plasma Luxim light, which should mean that it lacks the red spectrum for optimized flowering. They responded with the make and type of light but did not answer the question on spectrum.

Im going by the local hydro shop and if they can get a baddass ballast, im giving it a shot. They typically have internet prices, and i got a frequent customer card for 5% off. almost negates sales tax and certainly shipping.

I think we just need to stick with the proven. Tons of new technology is emerging, exciting new stuff. Just like the very first computers that were for personal use. Dont buy too soon before its refined.

Ive decided on a 600w or 1000w digital if i can pick up a nice one cheapish. I am planning to keep my 400 and use a CMH bulb in it.

I am planning on supplementing my main light with the 400 cmh a few weeks into flowering. If i do a non continual harvest, i may put the light on at 4 weeks or so.

If i end up doing a continual harvest i will add the cmh to supplement for about 4-6 hours a day to help with heat and costs i wont run it constantly. at least not at first.

I am also considering adding a UV light to the setup. This light will be on a separate timer run for a few hours a day. with a light switch outside the room so i can turn it on and off without me inside or being exposed.

Hi there Karr its unnessesary to go higher than a 600 Watt setup for the space you have.. A 400W MH will be perfect for that area, and either a 400W or 600W HPS will produce MASSIVE buds, I have a friend who used a 600W setup and he grew a 7FT tree with tons of bud on it!!!

Also look into dual spec bulbs, these give you part MH part HPS and can really help certain area's of your grow. If you plan to also use a UV bulb, may I surgest a UV-B reptile bulb for up to half hour per day in the last 2 weeks of flowering, this will give you a nice THC boost

I wouldn't worry about Plasma just yet....Far far too expensive for what you get, HID lighting is fairly cheap and very cost effective

Lumatek do fantastic digital ballasts that start up both MH & HPS, and most of them have a Super Lumen switch (for use with HPS bulbs only)this will give you a 20% lumen boost towards the end of your flowering period ... Also a digital ballast run's well quite compared to magnetic

I would not suplement HID aka MH & HPS with LED though, not because LEDs have an on going battle with people to show they can do what they say they can, but purely because HID lighting is so much more intense the LEDs light output would be lost!

125W Envirolite CFLs make great supplementary lighting and in my opinion are brighter than the 150W and 250W models, I have used these and they are great...Fragile ...BUT GREAT!!

If you do go with a 600W setup I highly doubt you'll need T5 or any other kind of side lighting, expecially since you have used that nice shiny Mylar

Here's an idea to help keep your canopy at one height.. LST Low Stress Train your taller plant's by gently tieing them down a bit at a time until the canopy is all at the same height, and for better light penetration use the 'Lollypopping' technique to tidy up the lower section of your plants...This will allow either your 400 or 600 to better penetrate your ladies as well as make for better air circulation

Hope this has helped, good luck with your grow I look forward to seeing what happens next - STELTHY

If you lollypop your plants your roots will send more growing energy to the top section where you'll find the bigger buds grow, If you think you may loose out on the small popcorn buds that grow on the lower branches, its a good idea to 'TOP' your plants once or twice before letting them go into flower...This will give you 2 or 4 main cola's instead of the usual 1 and will produce SO so much more bud than the lower section could ever hope too - STELTHY