Venting Options

Puffinstuff

Active Member
Hey all, great forum.

I'm just finishing up the design of a flowerbox and could use some input. I've looked but haven't seen the answer to my ? So if there's an existing threat, please point me to it.

My box is 4'x4'x6'. I'm planning on doing an ebb&flo SCRog. I'm using a 1KW digital ballast with an air cooled AIROFLOW reflector (completely sealed) and plan to use CO2.

My ? is, if the my heat levels are kept in check with just the inline cooling of the reflector, do I still need additonal venting? I'm figuring I'll clearly get the CO2 levels I need by suplementation and O2 will be provided via the ebb&flow floods and an inbox fan will move the air in the box.

I was thinking about an additional vent with a charcoal scrubber but I'm not sure about cycling with the CO2.

Thanks much for your help.
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
yes, you will need 2 ventilation setups. well i would suggest you go with two. aircool the lights, making sure it is sealed with a glass. put a fan on that (it wont need to be carbon filtered because it is sealed, right? duh! lol)

next.....

when you run your co2, you will turn your exhaust fans off for a min and fill with co2, refresh every so often with fresh co2. exhaust the room and there you go.

exhaust for the room must have carbon filter on it. aircooling the lights will provide you a cushion/barrier for low enough temperatures to turn the exhaust off and run co2; moreover, co2 will allow you to also run higher temps as well!!!
 

Puffinstuff

Active Member
Thanks Loudblunts. I've seen that cycle recommendation.

BUT, to play Devil's advocate...back in the day, prehistoric to be exact, the world had monsterous plant life and growth. This has been attributed to high CO2 levels and heat, nobody ever gave the world a spin to freshen the air.

My thinking (and correct me if I'm missing something) if I seal this unit off from outside variables, provide constants of 1500ppm CO2, a temp in the 85F range (read this range to be ideal for CO@ supplementation), provide O2 via the Hydroponics feed and plant respiration and maintain correct nute and PH levels wouldn't his create the optimal environment? There'd be no flucuation and growth rates would remain constant.

I guess I don't understand what benefit I'd receive from cycling through outside air. It seems to me that after venting, I'd have to correct CO2 levels and expose the plants to less than ideal conditions and for a good portion of the time, the environment would be less than ideal vs being constantly ideal.

What am I missing in benefiting from bring in outside air?

"Totally not trying to be a smart ass, just trying maximize"

Thanks
 

whatapothead

Well-Known Member
u bring up a great point. i'd also like to know.

where are the experts.

is it just c02 that plants need? or do they like other things in the air as well?
 

Puffinstuff

Active Member
Looks like experimenting we will go. I've got some bagseed I'll try this out on as to not risk killing good plants. If I see no ill effects, I do a "good" grow.

My ONLY concerns would be humidity (which I can control pretty easily with a humidistat and a micro dehumid) and having too much O2 in the closet. I haven't seen ANYTHING about too much O2 for photosynthesis. I'm also thinking that my unit will get air exchange at least once a day when I measure nute and ph levels.

whatapothead, I'll let u know what I find.
 

bigballin007

New Member
02 is absorbed through the roots and c02 is absorbed through the leaves so in theory this may be correct. But I think the issue will be venting the heat more than keeping C02 levels up as we have the highest C02 levels that we have seen in the last 100,000 years from data collected from core samples from the poles.
 

Puffinstuff

Active Member
Thanks bigballin007 for the theory support.

I'm using a sealed reflector (glass and silicone) with a turbo inline fan pullling cool air (basement) from one side of the box through the light via insulated flex duct right out the other side of the box. The heat from the light should be (I'm hoping) very managable.
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
Thanks Loudblunts. I've seen that cycle recommendation.

BUT, to play Devil's advocate...back in the day, prehistoric to be exact, the world had monsterous plant life and growth. This has been attributed to high CO2 levels and heat, nobody ever gave the world a spin to freshen the air.

My thinking (and correct me if I'm missing something) if I seal this unit off from outside variables, provide constants of 1500ppm CO2, a temp in the 85F range (read this range to be ideal for CO@ supplementation), provide O2 via the Hydroponics feed and plant respiration and maintain correct nute and PH levels wouldn't his create the optimal environment? There'd be no flucuation and growth rates would remain constant.

I guess I don't understand what benefit I'd receive from cycling through outside air. It seems to me that after venting, I'd have to correct CO2 levels and expose the plants to less than ideal conditions and for a good portion of the time, the environment would be less than ideal vs being constantly ideal.

What am I missing in benefiting from bring in outside air?

"Totally not trying to be a smart ass, just trying maximize"

Thanks

lol what the hell are you talking about dude? devils advocate? lol what are you trying to play devils advocate to?

i simple told you about a ventilation system....didnt tell you what you COULDNT do, and what you shouldnt do.

but since you brought it up....sure you could leave your plants in NON fresh air....but IMO non fresh air creates problems such as pest, mold, clogged pores on the plant, all kinda shit.... as well as you intaking the hot, humid air YOU JUST exhausted from your cab, which is never good.

secondly why wouldnt you want the best for your plants. how would you feel if someone stuck you in a closet and didnt let you out, made you breath in the same air for 4 months at a time?

i mean do what you want....but not refreshing their air with plenty of freshness will be troublesome....

also keep in mine, stagnant air is breeding ground for pest and such
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
and just because you keep it at a constant 1200-1500 ppms of co2 doesnt mean it DOESNT need to be replenished.

its no different from saying...well since i got this $100 motor/engine oil in my car imma keep it in for a lifetime, and if i keep it at a certain amount....i shouldnt need to change/replace/replenish it.
 

Puffinstuff

Active Member
Wow loudblunts I don't undertstand what you seem to be so bent about. I simply thanked you for your post.

As playing devil's advocate, I'm referring to the clearly established methodology of cycling fresh air.

My choosing to use a "sealed" environment is to avoid those very things and to create a sterile setup. If I'm not bringing in outside air, how will those pests be introduced to the environment?

And to clarify, the cool air is coming from the other side of a wall, completely different room and my exhaust has been routed into my dryer exhaust vent, going right outside.

And as far as someone sticking me in a closet, I'm a human, not a plant. VERY distinctly differnt bioprocess'.

With all due respect, is what you're sharing based on experience or from reading?

My goal is to produce the best quality bud I can in the most effecient manner. That's it. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone and would ask the same courtesy be extended to me.

I have looked hard and can't find anything to support or to disprove my theory so I will explore it myself.

And in the end, I either prove my theory or if my experiment fails to support it, I put another exhaust in.

Have great weekend.
 

Puffinstuff

Active Member
and just because you keep it at a constant 1200-1500 ppms of co2 doesnt mean it DOESNT need to be replenished.

its no different from saying...well since i got this $100 motor/engine oil in my car imma keep it in for a lifetime, and if i keep it at a certain amount....i shouldnt need to change/replace/replenish it.
And with regard to CO2 being replenished, it will be replenished whenever needed by my CO2 system.
 

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
LMAO!!! so when did the internet start making emotion meters?


how do you figure im so bent over this? lol not really i might be bent because of this fire ass bud im smoking....but nothing more.


disrespect you? hahaha if you think that is disrespect, just wait til you come in contact with this rest of the forum.

show me where in my post did i sound mad/annoyed or bent...lol

some of yall need to stop being so sensitive

im here to help, I OBVIOUSLY wouldnt waste my breath for nothing.


you talk about its a different process so plants dont need the amount of air you do....lol.... every living thing needs fresh air. fuck what you heard and fuck different bioprocess.

go head and grow in bad quality air and see what happens. the environment you grow in is just as important if not more than everything else. its as strong as its weakest link
 

multisonic

Well-Known Member
Why would you need a carbon filter and fan setup to exchange the air. That's your question right? Well The plants will be producing 2 things that you may not want. The first is oxygen, enough of it will displace Co2. That's not the point really. The second is SMELL. Once your plantyplants hit adolescence it's all downhill from there with smell. That's the point of sucking the air out through the carbon filter. I don't think exchanging the air in the room actually has any benefit to the plants as long as you have temp and humidity under control but an air exchange easily and greatly contributes to controlling these issues.

I hope my advice helped and I didn't totally miss your point. I'm dumb like that.
 

Puffinstuff

Active Member
Cool, if you're not bent, great.

I'm not being sensitive @ all. I just think you're kinda arrogant and clearly unable to embrace a new idea. It seems like you're trying REAL hard to defend your position which is fine. Mine just happen to differ.

So I've heard what you had to say, took it into advisement and I'm done with it.

...and 90% of the internet runs on Cisco, not on Lucent.
 

Puffinstuff

Active Member
Thanks multisonic. I was planning on using a carbon scrubber with a fan to filter and recirculate the air inside the chamber.
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
Mounting the scrubber entirely inside the grow has me wondering in terms of your proposed sealed setup. I've been noting that most people seem to have their filters inside, pulling exhaust out through them. While there's really no better way to do it with a conventional setup requiring air exchange, I keep thinking that this positioning of the filter might remove more of the terpenes from the buds than would be ideal. Running a scrubber in a sealed environment w/o any exhaust would seems like it could accelerate that process--especially if the scrubber is always kept running when setup entirely inside the grow, where it might not be in a setup in which it is attached to an exhaust.

I like stinky pot, just not a stinky apartment, you know?


So rather than replicating the conventional setup inside a sealed compartment, why not mount the scrubbers outside of the flowering chamber (if practical, given room volume, cost, and CFM/dB ratings)? If the chamber is still going to have an exhaust (even if infrequently used) you'll still need to filter it, so this would be an "in addition to" rather than "instead of" but might give better results. You would run the scrubbers outside the chamber full time and the one inside would only ever come into play when the exhaust fan runs.

So far as your more general question on environmental control and what LoudBlunts had to say, I tend to agree with you Puffin. He came on rather strong, and his opinion seems to be based more on inherited folk wisdom than botany. There are a good number of conflicting 'rules of thumb' in growing, usually because they're intended for different contexts or setups. Fresh air exchange is recommended by default, but it isn't truly a requirement as long as you're making sure that the roots get O2 and the leaves transpire during photosynthesis (cheap oscillating fan and good humidity control will do the trick there).

And as you said, a sealed space is actually beneficial in avoiding infestations, etc, provided--again--that you can keep it at the right temps, humidity, etc to avoid other problems.

So, what you're describing *should* work, though practically speaking it will require you to spend more time and money to effectively manage temps, humidity and odor. And tolerances will be more narrow and drift more rapid than a 'standard' setup.

And on that topic, maybe I need to go back and look at your grow dimensions again, but it sounded smallish. Keep in mind that a 1000W might overly warm a smaller space w/o air circulation even with a cooled hood and good reflectivity. Air cooling the hood keeps the fixture itself from getting hot and radiating heat like a heat sink, but just running the light for long enough may demand at least a periodic air exchange to keep temps down and effectively restore or remove humidity (depending on your ambient atmosphere, I think you said your location required a *de*humidifier.)

So, the easiest answer would be to get a combo fan/dehumidifier/co2 controlling thermo/humidistat/co2 meter that will turn on the fans over a certain temperature point, release co2 when below a certain point (as long as the fan is off) and monitor humidity, turning the dehumidifer on/off and/or running the fans as required. Basically, greenhouse equipment. Hard to buy discretely but takes the guess-work out.

Something like this:
Simply Hydroponics & Organics - AIR-4 Atmospheric

Not cheap, though.

Anyway, it's a good concept. If you do this, please consider journaling it--I'd like to see how it goes.
 

Puffinstuff

Active Member
Thanks Maccabee, great piece. I'm with you on the stinky sticky! I wondered what long term effect running an internal scrubber would have on the bud and what you're saying makes perfect sense.

I like the idea of running a scrubber "outside the box". My growbox is inside a locked room inside a basement of a private home so I could get away with just that.

I won't know how well I'll be able to manage my environmental variables until I actually get underway and can take some measurements but I'm optimistic.

I'm familiar with the product line that you mentioned in fact I've even had in in my "shopping cart" a couple of times. It's def still an option should I find that I'm not able to manage my variables as I hope and I have to resort to the traditional setup.

After starting this thread I did find an interesting "document" supporting my thoughts. I downloaded the pdf and when I locate it, I'll post a link. It was a very well researched and presented study by *I believe* the University of Colorado.

I am intrigued by journaling my experience but I'm still rather concerned about hanging my ass out there and waiting for it to be slapped (not referring to forum members), hell I'm still a little sketched about being involved in a forum environment.

Thanks for your input, like I said great piece.
 
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