when the bud gets matured

nick8 said:

well i have checked that thread and they are in the 2nd week cause they were inside for 1 week and i will post pics tomorrow, but could i cut them earlier and i asked how long does it takes not when(wrong tittle)?

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nick8 said:

sorry for bad pic

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nick8 said:

sorry for bad pic

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newbie9 said:

Flowering isnt considered until the first floral cluster can be observed. If it shot out hairs that just means its showing you shes a lady. Usualy 4-5 weeks into veg. Then a week or so of pre flowering and then boom you have pistils popping up everywhere. What exactly are you going by on three weeks flowering?
But yeah id say split em up now in to atleatst 3 gal containers. Then the next 2 months watch em grow. You must have planted them wayyyyy late they look like indica dom/sativa hybrids.
Once in 3gal containers those girls should bulk up.
Shes just startin to show so id say atleast 8weeks as well. If not more. I grew 2 together and one was tiny and the dominant one i let live. Still they were both stunted and i had em in a 5gal container. Yours is about 2 tops.
Split em now and pray the frost dont get em in the future. Learn from this. Plant in June harvest in October for indicas Late november for Sativas.

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Does 12/12 mean anything outdoors?
Often I have seen new members(or members mostly experienced in indoors) post threads asking when 12/12 occurs outdoors. Often they say they are looking for the time of the season when their plants will start blooming outdoors, many times they are trying to use this date(Sept 21 Equinox) plus the strains indoor finishing time to determine the outdoor finishing time.
But of course it doesn't work that way, we know that most strains have started blooming long before Sept 21st, but there is even more reason why indoor finishing times can't be applied outdoors.

One thing to realize is that as the day lights length shortens, the plants speed up their blooming, since most plants start blooming long before 12/12, outdoor plants will take longer to set into blooming and to finish than their indoor grown sisters would. So basically, unless you live very near to the Equator, indoor finishing times will not be applicable outdoors.
Finishing times, Photoperiod, Latitude, and how it all works!!
We all know the basics of vegging and blooming Cannabis..... when the day is long and the night is short the plant concentrates on vegging(growing), when the day length shortens enough, the plant starts to bloom.

But how does all this work?
Why does the same strain finish at different times in different parts of the world? Does 12/12 really mean anything outdoors? Why is Latitude(or "Lat") so important to some growers? What is a "Auto-flowering" plant?

Lets get into the meat of the subject shall we?..............

Photoperiod
The first thing to cover here is Photoperiod- Photoperiod is the ammount of time there is light in a 24 hour period. In Cannabis growing, Photoperiod is typically shown like this- 12/12 or 16/8, or 18/6, etc. The first number is usually the length of the lighted period, the second shows the balance of the 24 hours that is dark.
Outdoors the sun controls the Photoperiod. Its length changes through the seasons according to the movements of the sun in the sky, a matter of fact it causes the change in seasons. This brings us to......
Photoperiodism
Photoperiodism is the reaction of many flowering plants(including Cannabis) to changes in Photoperiod. Plants that experience Photoperiodism have pigment cells called Phytochrome that monitor the ammounts of light being absorbed by the plants(specificly the red end of the spectrum), and the length of day. Signals from the Phytochrome tell the plant to do many things, including to grow, bloom, and in the case of some trees, to loose their leaves and go dormant in Autum.

Most of these plants fall into three catergories concerning blooming times, that being- long day plants(blooms as day gets longer), short day plants(blooms as day gets shorter), and day neutral plants(blooming is not according to light cycles).
All Cannabis varieties are either "Short day", plants or "Auto-flowering" (known as "Day neutral" outside of the Cannabis community). So called "Auto-flowering" plants do not seem to take their blooming cues from the sun, and thus should be considered "Day neutral", as most seem to be geneticly programmed to bloom according to age insted.

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The Sun, Latitude, and why the same plants finish different times at different points on the globe

The year as we know it is basicly the time it takes for the Earth to make a complete loop around the sun. As the Earth makes this loop it shifts on its axis, so that either the northern half or southern half(Hemispheres) have the longer photoperiod.

The shortest day of the year is called the Winter Solstice, this day occurs on December 21st in the northern half of the world, on the same day in the southern hemisphere they will have their Summer solstice, the longest day of the year. On June 21s it will be reversed, with the longest day of the year in the north(Summer solstice), and the shortest day in the south(Winter solstice).

Two days of the year are known as the equinoxes, one occurs March 21st and one on September 21st. These days represent the halfway point between the longest and shortest days of the year, on these days the day length is almost exactly 12/12 all over the world. If you are in the Northern hemisphere, Mar. 21 is the first day of Spring and September is the first day of Autum, reverse these dates in the southern hemisphere.

Latitude
Latitude is the east-west lines you see on a globe or map of the earth, they are spaced about every 111 Kilometers starting at 0 degrees at the Equator, and graduating north and south from there (every 111 KM) to the north pole(90 Degrees North) and South pole(90 Degrees south).

Here is a link to Wikpedia explaining Latitude-

Latitude

At the Equator the length of day doesn't change much from month to month, at both Solstices the length of day is about 12 hours, at both Equinoxes it is about 12 hours, almost perpetual 12/12.

Now lets take a look at Portland Oregon, this city sits near 45.4° N, which is about exactly halfway between the Equator(O°) and the North pole(90°N).
At the Winter solstice, the length of day is 8h 41m, at Summer solstice the day length is 15h 41m, and at the Equinoxes it is 12h 12m.

And now lets look at Anchorage Alaska, this city sits at 61.2° N, a little over 2/3 of the way to the North pole(90° N) from the Equator(0°).
At the Winter Solstice the day length is 5h 27m, at Summer solstice the day length is 19h 22m, and the Equinoxes are 12h 18m.

As you move away from the equator(either north or south), you see more distictness between the seasons and the length of days during those seasons.
Generally the closer you are to the Equator, the less difference there is between the length of day on the Solstices(the longest and shortest days of the year.
The further you are from the Equator, the more difference there is in length of day between the Solstices, making the Summer shorter and shorter, and the longest day of the year longer and longer the further you go from the eternal 12/12 of the Equator.

Here are the Latitudes for a few North American, European and Australian cities to show a example of the vast differences in latitude-

Darwin, Australia-12.4° S
Miami, Florida-25.8° N
Houston, Texas-29.7° N
Los Angeles, California-34.1° N
Atlanta, Georgia-33.9° N
Canberra, Australia-35.3° S
San Francisco, California-37.8° N
Reno, Nevada-39.5° N
Naples, Italy-40.8° N
Chicago, Illinois- 41.9° N
Boston, Massachusetts-42.4° N
Toronto, Ontario-43.6° N
Ottawa, Ontario-45.3° N
Seattle, Washington-47.6° N
Vienna, Austria-48.2° N
Vancouver, British Columbia-49.2° N
Calgary, Alberta-51.1° N
Warsaw, Poland-52.2° N
Amsterdam, Netherlands-52.3°
Edmonton, Alberta-53.3° N
Anchorage, Alaska-61.2° N

The Photoperiod sensitive strains of Cannabis are each geneticly programmed to start blooming when day shortens to a certain length*.
When these various strains are bred, they become acclimated to that latitudes photoperiod, they are bred to bloom and harvest before that areas climate becomes too cold and dark(or wet), usally to avoid major mold problems, or harsh freezing weather.
*Many experts agree that it is actually the length of the dark period that matters to plants.

When you take a plant that was bred in one location, and move it to a similar Latitude, say from 42° N to 43° N the plant should harvest at nearly the same time. But if you take a plant from 42° N to 50° N, its possible that the plant may not harvest early enough to beat Winter further up north.
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Here is a chart comparing the length of day for 4 areas, over the year. The first number is the length of day(meaning sunrise to sunset), the second number includes the twilight time before sunrise and after sunset(basicly the total length of visable light)-

----- Houston, TX 29.7°N--------Humbolt county, CA 40° N------Eugene, OR 44.1°N--------Vancouver,BC 49.2°N

Dec 21--10h 14m/11h 07m------------9h 22m/10h 23m--------------8h 52m/9h 58m--------------7h53m/9h 27m

Jan 21--10h 33m/11h 24m------------9h 51m/10h 49m--------------9h 26m/10h 30m------------8h 54m/10h 05m

Feb 21--11h 19m/12h 07m-----------10h 58m/11h 53m-------------10h 46m/11h 45m-----------10h 31m/11h 36m

Mar 21--12h 58m/12h 56m-----------12h 10m/13h 04m-------------12h 11m/13h 09m-----------12h 13m/13h 16m

Apr 21--13h 03m/13h 52m-----------13h 29m/14h 25m-------------13m 44m/14h 45m-----------14h 04m/15h 12m

May 21--13h 45m/14h 57m-----------14h 31m/15h 33m-------------14h 45m/16h 06m-----------15h 34m/16h 53m

Jun 21--14h 03m/14h 57m-----------15h 57m/16h 05m-------------15h 30m/16h 43m-----------16h 14m/17h 40m

Jul 06--13h 58m/14h 52m-----------15h 00m/16h 06m-------------15h 22m/16h 34m-----------16h 04m/17h 28m

Jul 21--13h 45m/14h 57m-----------14h 31m/15h 33m-------------14h 45m/16h 06m-----------15h 34m/16h 53m

Aug 06--13h 26m/14h 17m-----------14h 09m/15h 10m-------------14h 24m/15h 29m-----------14h 53m/16h 06m

Aug 21--13h 03m/13h 52m-----------13h 29m/14h 25m-------------13m 44m/14h 45m-----------14h 04m/15h 12m

Sep 06--12h 36m/13h 24m-----------12h 53m/13h 48m-------------12h 58m/13h 57m-----------13h 09m/14h 14m

Sep 21--12h 10m/12h 56m-----------12h 10m/13h 04m-------------12h 11m/13h 09m-----------12h 13m/13h 16m

Oct 06--11h 43m/12h 31m-----------11h 32m/12h 27m-------------11h 28m/12h 26m-----------11h 21m/12h 25m

Oct 21--11h 19m/12h 07m-----------10h 58m/11h 53m-------------10h 46m/11h 45m-----------10h 31m/11h 36m

Nov 06--10h 52m/11h 42m-----------10h 13m/11h 11m-------------10h 00m/11h 01m------------9h 35m/10h 43m

Nov 21--10h 33m/11h 24m------------9h 51m/10h 49m--------------9h 26m/10h 30m------------8h 54m/10h 05m

Dec 21--10h 14m/11h 07m------------9h 22m/10h 23m--------------8h 52m/9h 58m-------------7h 53m/9h 27m

Length of day Vs. Length of visable light
When you see people describe outdoor Photoperiod, they often use the "Length of day" to describe it. "Length of day" is defined legally as the time between sunrise and sunset, the problem with using this figure is that it doesn't count the visable light known as "Twilight", that occurs before sunrise, and after sunset, the day may actually be 1 hour(or more) longer!
Cannabis plants do have a cut off point where they no longer consider fading light as "day", I am sure this tolerence point is different for each strain grown. Obviously a full moon is not bright enough to affect Cannabis plants, but who really knows where cut off is?

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CRITICAL LIGHT PERIOD
The 12-12 formula has been accepted without question by growers all over the world. Probably one of the reasons for this was my discussion of the technique in some of my early books. The 12-12 regimen was selected because my co-author and I reasoned that no matter what critical period a variety might have, given 12 hours of darkness it would flower. However, most marijuana varieties need fewer than 12 hours of darkness to flower.
If marijuana plants grown outdoors required a 12-hour dark period to flower, they would not be induced to start flowering until September 21, the first day of autumn, when day and night are equal length. They would ripen 6-8 weeks later. In real life most modern varieties ripen between early September and late October. Budding was triggered 6-8 weeks earlier. For instance, an eight-week variety that requires 55 days from forcing to maturity, which would normally ripen on October 1st, would start flowering August 1. At that date in San Francisco, sunrise occurs at 5:14 and sunset at 19:18, a total of 14 hours 4 minutes. Dawn and dusk add another 15 minutes of red light. Plants use the absence of this spectrum to measure the dark period. The total lit period came to about 14:20, leaving 9:40 minutes of darkness. The critical period for this plant was 9 hours 40 minutes. If it were given just 10 hours of dark period daily indoors, rather than 12 hours, it would still flower.
Gardeners growing outdoors who discover the critical time needed to induce flowering can use this information to get more efficient use of their indoor garden. Currently, plants grown under a 12/12 cycle spend half their time in the dark. If the plants have a critical flowering time of, for instance, 10 hours of darkness daily, they can be provided 14 rather than 12 hours of light each day so that they receive almost 17% more energy which they use to produce sugars used for more and faster growth.

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newbie9 said:

i know enough to tell you when a plant is flowering. Just cause a hair pops out doesnt mean its flowering. Just because the lights are on 12/12 doesnt mean its flowering. You can grow from seed 12/12 and that doesnt mean its flowering. Flowering starts when it starts. The plant will have its preflowers then thos preflowers will elongate and start popping out pistils from calyxes.When you see those clayxes thats when its flowering Not just cause you say okay your on 12/12 so i say flowering now. How is anything you posted different. Just because you flip a switch doesnt mean its flowering. You could be 2 weeks into 12/12 and it still not be fully flowering. Either way the kid asked how long.. those plants just started to flower its obvious. 7-8 weeks at the least if it is a indica dom. Ive had plants flower with 14/10 every strain is adapted to its enviroment and geneticaly set to flower when it does. Weather early july to early aug. The bottom line is that kid has months to harvest.

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newbie9 said:

what the fuck are you saying? Your saying im wrong? how can i be wrong when you posted the research. Just because i dont live my life on the computer doesnt mean i havent done thousands of hours of research. Your trying to blow shit into way to complicated math when all he asked was an opinion on how long. I stated obvious facts and proven facts. Flowering doesnt start because the sun or light says so. Sure it triggers it but you dont go im 8 weeks in cause i switched the light 8 weeks ago. Me i dont count the weeks too many variables i simply start checking trichomes octber 1st and to me is the one best method. 7 years ive had since i potted my first seed indoor/outdoor. From afgan to haze the weeks dont matter. Its all in the trichomes and pistils. A mature bud is a mature bud. Theres no mistaking it. You can put all the math you want into it but 8 weeks dont mean shit to me unless its 8 weeks from the first obvious flower. The pistils arent the flower. and again 3 weeks from first pistil isnt 3 weeks into flowering. Just means shes mature enough to begin to produce flowers.

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Flowering isnt considered until the first floral cluster can be observed.

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