Where has liberty gone?

medicineman

New Member
NYTimes: "American Liberty at the Precipice"

by Big Tent Democrat

Wed Feb 21, 2007 at 09:36:01 PM PST


The NYTimes editorial page takes note of the egregious decision handed down by the DC Circuit Court of Appeals and calls for action:
In another low moment for American justice, a federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday that detainees held at the prison camp at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, do not have the right to be heard in court. . . . The right of prisoners to challenge their confinement — habeas corpus — is enshrined in the Constitution and is central to American liberty. Congress and the Supreme Court should act quickly and forcefully to undo the grievous damage that last fall’s law — and this week’s ruling — have done to this basic freedom. . . . Congress should not wait for the Supreme Court to act. With the Democrats now in charge, it is in a good position to pass a new law that fixes the dangerous mess it has made. Senators Patrick Leahy, Democrat of Vermont, and Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, have introduced a bill that would repeal the provision in the Military Commissions Act that purports to obliterate the habeas corpus rights of detainees. . . .
The Bush administration’s assault on civil liberties does not end with habeas corpus. Congress should also move quickly to pass another crucial bill, introduced by Senator Christopher Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut, that, among other steps, would once and for all outlaw the use of evidence obtained through torture.
Our work at daily kos was extensive on the torture issue and culminated with our call for the Senate to reject Alberto Gonzales:
Unprecedented times call for unprecedented actions. In this case, we, the undersigned bloggers, have decided to speak as one and collectively author a document of opposition. We oppose the nomination of Alberto Gonzales to the position of Attorney General of the United States, and we urge every United States Senator to vote against him.
As the prime legal architect for the policy of torture adopted by the Bush Administration, Gonzales's advice led directly to the abandonment of longstanding federal laws, the Geneva Conventions, and the United States Constitution itself. Our country, in following Gonzales's legal opinions, has forsaken its commitment to human rights and the rule of law and shamed itself before the world with our conduct at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib. The United States, a nation founded on respect for law and human rights, should not have as its Attorney General the architect of the law's undoing.

In January 2002, Gonzales advised the President that the United States Constitution does not apply to his actions as Commander in Chief, and thus the President could declare the Geneva Conventions inoperative. Gonzales's endorsement of the August 2002 Bybee/Yoo Memorandum approved a definition of torture so vague and evasive as to declare it nonexistent. Most shockingly, he has embraced the unacceptable view that the President has the power to ignore the Constitution, laws duly enacted by Congress and International treaties duly ratified by the United States. He has called the Geneva Conventions "quaint."
Legal opinions at the highest level have grave consequences. What were the consequences of Gonzales's actions? The policies for which Gonzales provided a cover of legality - views which he expressly reasserted in his Senate confirmation hearings - inexorably led to abuses that have undermined military discipline and the moral authority our nation once carried. His actions led directly to documented violations at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and widespread abusive conduct in locales around the world.
Michael Posner of Human Rights First observed: "After the horrific images from Abu Ghraib became public last year, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld insisted that the world should 'judge us by our actions [and] watch how a democracy deals with the wrongdoing and with scandal and the pain of acknowledging and correcting our own mistakes.'" We agree. It is because of this that we believe the only proper course of action is for the Senate to reject Alberto Gonzales's nomination for Attorney General. As Posner notes, "[t]he world is indeed watching." Will the Senate condone torture? Will the Senate condone the rejection of the rule of law?
With this nomination, we have arrived at a crossroads as a nation. Now is the time for all citizens of conscience to stand up and take responsibility for what the world saw, and, truly, much that we have not seen, at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere. We oppose the confirmation of Alberto Gonzales as Attorney General of the United States, and we urge the Senate to reject him.
Signed, Daily Kos Management (past and present)
 

ViRedd

New Member
"Where has liberty gone?"

It's gone right down the rat hole of government regulation, progressive taxation and the Welfare State.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
GOD DAMN IT VI!!!! Quit poking Med with a stick.

MED Say something intelligent other than FUCK OFF!!!

Both of you are acting like a couple of spoiled little brats.... And your wasting bandwidth.
Talk about two people spreading bad karma. :rolleyes:
 

medicineman

New Member
GOD DAMN IT VI!!!! Quit poking Med with a stick.

MED Say something intelligent other than FUCK OFF!!!

Both of you are acting like a couple of spoiled little brats.... And your wasting bandwidth.
Talk about two people spreading bad karma. :rolleyes:
Dank, I'm tired of dealing with that retard. I'll talk to you or anyone else on this site, but that dickhead is out. He demeans me with every post and doesn't bother to read my posts entirely, just looks for a line to pull out and and bash me with his retarded right wing bullshit. You'd think an intelligent person would see some wrongs in the Bush agenda, but no, to him I'm a fucking communist. I am not a communist. I've lived in a commune and That was fine, but I never really belonged, I was always going out to participate in worldly things, drugs, sex, and Rock and roll. Just because I have a feel for the human dillema does not make me a communist. I'm extremely tired of defending myself against this idiotic drivel and will not be a party to his nonsense any longer. If he responds to my post with some bullshit, all I have to say to him is Fuck off. Sorry if this offends you but I've had enough of his mean driveling bullshit!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Dank, I'm tired of dealing with that retard. I'll talk to you or anyone else on this site, but that dickhead is out. He demeans me with every post and doesn't bother to read my posts entirely, just looks for a line to pull out and and bash me with his retarded right wing bullshit. You'd think an intelligent person would see some wrongs in the Bush agenda, but no, to him I'm a fucking communist. I am not a communist. I've lived in a commune and That was fine, but I never really belonged, I was always going out to participate in worldly things, drugs, sex, and Rock and roll. Just because I have a feel for the human dillema does not make me a communist. I'm extremely tired of defending myself against this idiotic drivel and will not be a party to his nonsense any longer. If he responds to my post with some bullshit, all I have to say to him is Fuck off. Sorry if this offends you but I've had enough of his mean driveling bullshit!
And, what was your diatribe about salesmen again, Med? Your negativism has gotten to the point of retalitation. Now, I'm willing to be big enough to return to kindness, gentelness and a non-abusive attitude if you are. Your call, big guy.

And with that, I'm going to lunch. Probably won't be back until tomorrow, or maybe even Saturday. I hope you take the challenge, Med. A positive attitude is a real joy.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
And, what was your diatribe about salesmen again, Med? Your negativism has gotten to the point of retalitation. Now, I'm willing to be big enough to return to kindness, gentelness and a non-abusive attitude if you are. Your call, big guy.

And with that, I'm going to lunch. Probably won't be back until tomorrow, or maybe even Saturday. I hope you take the challenge, Med. A positive attitude is a real joy.

Vi
Get over it, you know that in general, salesmen are less than honest, hell maybe you are that one in a million, an honest salesman, if so please accept my heartfelt apology!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Get over it, you know that in general, salesmen are less than honest, hell maybe you are that one in a million, an honest salesman, if so please accept my heartfelt apology!

I'll accept your appology, but I cannot allow your statement regarding salespeople to stand. Are there some dishonest salemen? Sure, just like some carpenters are dishonest. Like dishonest carpenters, dishonest salemen don't last in the business. For the most part, my experience has been that sucessful salespeople are very intellegent, creative people who really want to serve their fellow man. They treat people with respect and friendlyness. NOTHING moves in this country without a saleman on the initial end of things.

What I would suggest you do Med ... is to check your bigotry.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Get over it, you know that in general, salesmen are less than honest, hell maybe you are that one in a million, an honest salesman, if so please accept my heartfelt apology!

I'll accept your appology, but I cannot allow your statement regarding salespeople to stand. Are there some dishonest salemen? Sure, just like some carpenters are dishonest. Like dishonest carpenters, dishonest salemen don't last in the business. For the most part, my experience has been that sucessful salespeople are very intellegent, creative people who really want to serve their fellow man. They treat people with respect and friendlyness. NOTHING moves in this country without a saleman on the initial end of things.

What I would suggest you do Med ... is to check your bigotry.

Vi
Ditto.I guess you being a saint have none, like to you a communist is as you see them, a scourge on society, Hell maybe they're really nice guys, like I've known a few salesmen and to a man they were all crooks and would steal the pennies off a deadmans eyes, maybe other than that, they were nice guys, Hell I liked them, I'd probably even like you if I didn't know your political position.
 
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