Which driver for 4 Zeus xT 308 lm301b in 4x4

Belko

Well-Known Member
Hello

I m looking for a driver to run 4 Zeus xT in 4x4 Space

Sorry i can t post the link

internal interconnection of Zeus Compact and XT cards :

14 LEDs in series, 22 series in parallel

I Was looking for a driver cc hlg480h2800c for serial wiring but the seller recommends a hlg480h-42a for 4 board in parallel

I have seen the pro here most of the time recommends cc + cv drivers for led boards for high voltage or efficiency reasons,
and the led boards are not originally designed to run on cc drivers with a high voltage.

For exemple : the qb are sold with cc drivers
ledgardener recommended it for led to avoid thermal bottling and the fluctuation of the current in the circuit.

safety is very important to me I don t want to burn the house.

Sorry for my englih and thank you for you r help
 

Belko

Well-Known Member
Yes @Moflow thank you

I get the Zeus xT 3500k it s the bigger board 285x440mm 308 lm301b

I m building a 3x3 profile frame with 2020 profiles for my 4x4 space.
I was not quite sure about the driver.
I will follow your advice and go with the hlg-480h-42a

Thank you
 
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Belko

Well-Known Member
Hello

I would like to improve the spectrum,
I thought to add ~ 7% hypered 660nm oslon squrare and ~ 2% far red 730nm oslon ssl 120

after some reading i think i will add 2x3 or 2x4 cob cri 90~ 95 3000k
i m looking for the nichia NFDWJ130 b-v2

Cri 93 134lm/w 39v 1150ma~ 44w 5930lm
(the nichias are available in 24/27/30 / 44w)
The 24w/27w/30w versions are 138~139lm/w

Cri 95 is 136lm/w out of stock

https://www.lumitronix.com/fr_fr/nichia-nfdwj130b-v2-chip-on-board-modul-3000k-cri90-30682.html

the cobs will be integrated in the frame and will work at the same height as the boards
I have an elg 240-c2100
I thought 2 series of 3 cob in parallel or maybe buy another driver for 2x4 cob

i have seen some run the vero 18c or Cxm22 3000k Cri 90
the nichia are easier to get to me
it seems to me equivalent But i m noob It s why i need you r help ^^

I don t know how much intensity I should run the cobs to have them run at the same height as the boards,and I don t want to add light unnecessarily the goal is to improve the spectrum

Thank you
 
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Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Hello

I would like to improve the spectrum,
I thought to add ~ 7% hypered 660nm oslon squrare and ~ 2% far red 730nm oslon ssl 120

after some reading i think i will add 2x3 or 2x4 cob cri 90~ 95 3000k
i m looking for the nichia NFDWJ130 b-v2

Cri 93 134lm/w 39v 1150ma~ 44w 5930lm
(the nichias are available in 24/27/30 / 44w)
The 24w/27w/30w versions are 138~139lm/w

Cri 95 is 136lm/w out of stock

https://www.lumitronix.com/fr_fr/nichia-nfdwj130b-v2-chip-on-board-modul-3000k-cri90-30682.html

the cobs will be integrated in the frame and will work at the same height as the boards
I have an elg 240-c2100
I thought 2 series of 3 cob in parallel or maybe buy another driver for 2x4 cob

i have seen some run the vero 18c or Cxm22 3000k Cri 90
the nichia are easier to get to me
it seems to me equivalent But i m noob It s why i need you r help ^^

I don t know how much intensity I should run the cobs to have them run at the same height as the boards,and I don t want to add light unnecessarily the goal is to improve the spectrum

Thank you
Have a look at digikey.com for Bridgelux COB's but make sure it's gen.7. They ship to EU and you don't have to pay custom fees only VAT. All the prices are net prices and VAT is different and depending on the country.

I would use 3 or 4 strings of 3 COB's, 9 or 12pcs COB's in 3 or 4s3p. Each COB would run with ~24w/700mA or 17,5w/525mA and you can mount them to the exsisting fixture. I'm using ⅔ CRI80 F-strips and ⅓ CRI93 COB's. F-strips are running with ~525mA and COB's are at ~500mA and I've used the fixture at 12" with no issues like bleaching.

The good thing with low driven COB's is you need no expensive heatsinks. A modded aluminum C-channel with 30x 40x 30mm, 4ft. long is enough for 70-80w low driven COB's. See the 400w light in my signature, it has two modded C-channels each with 4 COB's at 500mA(70w) and highest temp reading was 116°F/47°C with 84°F/30°C ambient temps.
You only need to glue a small c-channel into a bigger c-channel to increase the surface area and convert it into a long passive heatsink.

For UVB I would recommend to use good reptile bulbs. 24w each 0,5m² is enough because the daily dose is determined by hours of usage! Agromax has indeed the PureUV which is 3 times more powerful but they do not ship in the EU and there is no official EU distributor till now.
But good reptile bulbs like the Arcadia D3desert(12% UVB/30% UVA, 7000°k/CRI90) or D3dragon(14%/30%, 7000°k/CRI90) used for 3-6h the day gives you more than enough of these high energy wavelengths.

Lets say you use the 24w D3dessert 2ft T5HO bulb at 16-18"/40-45cm above the tops. You can expect 80-100μW/cm² UVB with alu reflector. If you use it for 6h the day(3h at the beginning and 3h before lights off) that's already a dose of 17,28 to 25,92kJ/m². Reflectors are a must have with those 360° bulbs and target is to distribute the light as even as possible without loosing too much on the walls.

The formula to calculate the daily dose is:
Measured intensity (80-100μW/cm²) x hours of usage (6h) = 480-720μWh/cm² or 0,48-0,72mWh/cm², multiplicated with factor 3600(to get Joule/hour, 60sec x 60mins) it would be 1.728 - 2.592mJ/cm² or 17,28 - 25,92kJ/m².
That would be the daily dose of UVB and is comparable to the intensity you would see above 1000m.

This is how a modded c-channel looks like...
 

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Belko

Well-Known Member
Hey @Randomblame,thank you very much for you r advice.
if i had known there were no customs charges on digikey i would have surely build my frame with strips ^^

I ll Shake the Vero 18c gen 7 price.
I though 3x3 or 4x3 Cobs make more sense^^
If i have the ressource i ll go 4x3 for run them lower
Where are the lm301b cri90 strips...

I am going to study math for uvb, if I understood correctly the plants would receive the same amount of uvb / uva three times faster with the agromax lamp if I can run the bulb at 40~50cm without burn the plant ^^

If my memory is good, I could read that the duration was short on these lamps.
I ll study the Uvb lamp you advice me.

So what is the minimum height at which I can operate the Uvb lamp without harming the plants and keep a good distribution?
that will determine the height at which I will have to operate my frame

I have to do a control run with clones without Uvb to see for myself the difference, I will do a second run at half daily Uvb dose or less if it is conclusive I will gradually increase the daily dose of Uvb until
25,92kj x 1,44 for my 4x4?

I will build it ,I ll only have to install the lamp :cool: I will post some pictures when I'm done

thank you your knowledge is always a big help
 
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Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Hey @Randomblame,thank you very much for you r advice.
if i had known there were no customs charges on digikey i would have surely build my frame with strips ^^

I ll Shake the Vero 18c gen 7 price.
I though 3x3 or 4x3 Cobs make more sense^^
If i have the ressource i ll go 4x3 for run them lower
Where are the lm301b cri90 strips...

I am going to study math for uvb, if I understood correctly the plants would receive the same amount of uvb / uva three times faster with the agromax lamp if I can run the bulb at 40~50cm without burn the plant ^^

If my memory is good, I could read that the duration was short on these lamps.
I ll study the Uvb lamp you advice me.

So what is the minimum height at which I can operate the Uvb lamp without harming the plants and keep a good distribution?
that will determine the height at which I will have to operate my frame

I have to do a control run with clones without Uvb to see for myself the difference, I will do a second run at half daily Uvb dose or less if it is conclusive I will gradually increase the daily dose of Uvb until
25,92kj x 1,44 for my 4x4?

I will build it ,I ll only have to install the lamp :cool: I will post some pictures when I'm done

thank you your knowledge is always a big help

For a 4x 4' area you need two 4ft. bulbs. Below is a test with an Arcadia 2ft bulb above a 2x 2' area and different reflectors. The stucco sheet reflectors seems to have more spread while polished aluminum has higher intensity.
There is no need to convert the daily dose as long as you take 4 times as much on a 4x 4'. Because the 4footers are 54w you get anyway a bit more like from 2 2ft bulbs.

A friend of mine sended me a few PureUV bulbs via USPS but shipping and custom fees has more than doubled the price. These bulbs are so intense that you need at least ~24"/60cm distance(∅170μW/cm²). Some users mounted them directly under the ceiling to get usable intensity. Intense reptile bulbs (10-14%) need at least 12"/30cm to reach this level and the softer 5-6% bulbs can literally run all day long without issues.
I still have some stucco reflector sheet of which I plan to make a kind of long wing reflector for better distribution and I will put a L-profile (10x 10mm) like a super-spreader in front of the bulb, so that the plants get only indirect UV light directly below the bulbs. This way I hope I can use them in 16-20" without burning their asses off, lol! Another way to reduce their intensity is a finely woven fabric, just like curtains. Reptilians use such fabrics to halve the high intensity level of new bulbs.
The dose princip is reciprocal, you can use a high powered bulb for a short time or are low powered bulb for a long time and get the same results. But here is a problem!
Each UVB lamp takes up to 5 minutes to reach the specified values. Right after power up the level can be much higher. 5 minute intervals are virtually impossible to control if you do not plan to buy a broadband UVB meter. But such devices currently cost around $ 250! The Solar-Meter 6.2 is currently the best one because it most weighted the 280-300nm range (important for vitamin D3 formation). For us, this area is most important too because it is completely absorbed or reflected by thc acid and flavonoids without causing any damage.
Wavelength below 280nm do not exsist but wavelength above exsist and this wavelength seems to harm the plant. Each UVB bulb produce unfortunately much more UVA than UVB and the output is almost stable over it's lifetime. I'm pretty sure it's the unnatural high amount of UVA what can harm the plant.
At the foot of Mount Kilimanjaro at an altitude of 1800m above 0 the UVB radiation reaches up to 480μW/cm² for 1h at noon and the average of 6h is over 300μW/cm² per hour. Such levels should not harm the plant but if you use so much indoors you'll see burnings within a few days.
I am quite happy that I first used a reptile bulb to gain some experience. Getting started with Agromax bulbs would definitely have destroyed one or more runs because I've used the bulb in the same height like my LED's.


Strips in CRI90 does not exsist, at least not with LM301b or 561c. Only Bridgelux has the Vesta series in CRI90, which is a two spectrum doulbe row strip. One side is 2700°k(129lm/w) and the other side is 5000°k(135lm/w). Each side is driven seperately on an own driver which allows to mix the spectrums. Unfortunately Bridgelux used their smd2835 gen.1 diodes and for this reason they only reach EBgen1 efficiency. You need to drive them realy soft to get comparable efficiency levels.
But you can add deepred to get a higher CRI. If you add 7-10% deep-red to a white CRI80 spectrum the spectrum shifts towards CRI90..

Here is a calculator screenshot with 6 Zeusboards and ~10% deep and far-red. The latter has less effect on CRI but it's added for other reasons.

Screenshot_20180826-164137.png
 

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Belko

Well-Known Member
I worked on the Cob all night...
I only can get the BXRC-30G4000-c73Se from digickey and the
BXRC-30G4000-c73 and Se version from arrow
there are no more customs fees on arrow
shipping is free time limited time

BXRC-30A4001-C-73 Out of stock
BRXC-30H4000-C-73 Out of stock
Everywhere...
 
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Belko

Well-Known Member
For a 4x 4' area you need two 4ft. bulbs. Below is a test with an Arcadia 2ft bulb above a 2x 2' area and different reflectors. The stucco sheet reflectors seems to have more spread while polished aluminum has higher intensity.
There is no need to convert the daily dose as long as you take 4 times as much on a 4x 4'. Because the 4footers are 54w you get anyway a bit more like from 2 2ft bulbs.

A friend of mine sended me a few PureUV bulbs via USPS but shipping and custom fees has more than doubled the price. These bulbs are so intense that you need at least ~24"/60cm distance(∅170μW/cm²). Some users mounted them directly under the ceiling to get usable intensity. Intense reptile bulbs (10-14%) need at least 12"/30cm to reach this level and the softer 5-6% bulbs can literally run all day long without issues.
I still have some stucco reflector sheet of which I plan to make a kind of long wing reflector for better distribution and I will put a L-profile (10x 10mm) like a super-spreader in front of the bulb, so that the plants get only indirect UV light directly below the bulbs. This way I hope I can use them in 16-20" without burning their asses off, lol! Another way to reduce their intensity is a finely woven fabric, just like curtains. Reptilians use such fabrics to halve the high intensity level of new bulbs.
The dose princip is reciprocal, you can use a high powered bulb for a short time or are low powered bulb for a long time and get the same results. But here is a problem!
Each UVB lamp takes up to 5 minutes to reach the specified values. Right after power up the level can be much higher. 5 minute intervals are virtually impossible to control if you do not plan to buy a broadband UVB meter. But such devices currently cost around $ 250! The Solar-Meter 6.2 is currently the best one because it most weighted the 280-300nm range (important for vitamin D3 formation). For us, this area is most important too because it is completely absorbed or reflected by thc acid and flavonoids without causing any damage.
Wavelength below 280nm do not exsist but wavelength above exsist and this wavelength seems to harm the plant. Each UVB bulb produce unfortunately much more UVA than UVB and the output is almost stable over it's lifetime. I'm pretty sure it's the unnatural high amount of UVA what can harm the plant.
At the foot of Mount Kilimanjaro at an altitude of 1800m above 0 the UVB radiation reaches up to 480μW/cm² for 1h at noon and the average of 6h is over 300μW/cm² per hour. Such levels should not harm the plant but if you use so much indoors you'll see burnings within a few days.
I am quite happy that I first used a reptile bulb to gain some experience. Getting started with Agromax bulbs would definitely have destroyed one or more runs because I've used the bulb in the same height like my LED's.


Strips in CRI90 does not exsist, at least not with LM301b or 561c. Only Bridgelux has the Vesta series in CRI90, which is a two spectrum doulbe row strip. One side is 2700°k(129lm/w) and the other side is 5000°k(135lm/w). Each side is driven seperately on an own driver which allows to mix the spectrums. Unfortunately Bridgelux used their smd2835 gen.1 diodes and for this reason they only reach EBgen1 efficiency. You need to drive them realy soft to get comparable efficiency levels.
But you can add deepred to get a higher CRI. If you add 7-10% deep-red to a white CRI80 spectrum the spectrum shifts towards CRI90..

Here is a calculator screenshot with 6 Zeusboards and ~10% deep and far-red. The latter has less effect on CRI but it's added for other reasons.

View attachment 4187845
The UV lamp is a real headache, the operating height and light distribution are a problem, especially when you have a configuration with maximum LED to make it work as close as possible.
A 2x2ft bulb + a reflector (116w) or two bulbs + a reflector (108w) will take up a lot of space on the frame.

So I will have at least 2 bulbs (2 feet or 4 feet) to ensure distribution, the efficiency of the lamp will determine the duration of daily use. Even if I could get a lamp type agromax more efficient, I do not have a Uv measuring device, I will have to run it on the ceiling or I will burn the house ^^
Maybe I can do something with your super-spreader, the idea is great
the ideal would be effective UV LEDs ^^

I'm considering two 4ft and 108w reptil ampoules with a super spreader and a reflector. I'll see how to integrate them into the frame with cobs and boards

i also did the tests on the live configurator system, my first choice was adding mono ~7% deep red ~2% far red
i dont think to get 2.82μm / j with cobs ^^
i still saw some nice things with > cri90
the right shift of the > 90cri spectrum seems to keep the spectrum curve more balanced
I have not seen many people usine mono maybe causes of the price and the construction that it requires

they also sell the hyperred and the far red mono plug and light and some Edison uv led

You mean The far red for emerson effect?

(I can t see the arcadia pdf)
 
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Randomblame

Well-Known Member
I worked on the Cob all night...
I only can get the BXRC-30G4000-c73Se from digickey and
the BXRC-30G4000-c73 Se version from arrow
there are no more customs fees on arrow
shipping is free time limited time

BXRC-30A4001-C-73 Out of stock
BRXC-30H4000-C-73 Out of stock
Everywhere...

I've something similar, 550 in stock!
Bridgelux V18gen.7 3000°k/CRI90. It's actually a Vero18 without the plastic holder. Means a little bit of soldering is needed or you take additional 18mm LES holders.

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=BXRE-30G4000-C-73

I decided to solder them and mount them directly without holders. I've 8pcs V18 in series and the siutable COB holder allows only 250v so I soldered them and covered the solder joints with some non conductive silicone.

COB's solder joints are covered with some silicon.jpg


BTW,
If you buy from arrow and they ship from US to any country in europe you have to pay custom fees! If they say no, they are liars. I've ordered a few times from arrow and sometimes they splitted the order in two packages with no need and I had to pay processing fess two times. Fuckers!
You can ask UPS or DHL to handle the custom fees in advance, but it will cost you another 25€ each package. Digikey has some foreign trade warehouse in the EU and can therefore ship without customs control. You only have to pay VAT and if you order is above 50 bucks shipping is also free.

For reptile bulbs you need no spreader. Only the Agromax is so strong that you need something that prevents the tops directly under the bulb from getting burnings. The spreader shall throw the light back into the two reflector wings and from there it's distributed with the hammered surface evenly and without center hotspots on my 2x 4' area.
But as you has seen, I've only one bulb in the center.
With reptile bulbs you can go as close as 12" to the tops and still light up a 2x 4' area(4ft bulp), two 4ft. bulbs would cover a 4x 4' area perfectly in heights between 12 and 24". A simple aluminum reflector is enough, no need to reduce intensity below the lamp. Currently I've a 39w bulb with 3,3" wide reflector above my 2x 4' area, ~18" above the tops, 5+5h the day, ~80μW/cm² along the sides and 120μW/cm² in the middle. Daily dose between 28,8 and 43,2kJ/m²! Only slightly bleaching on the upper leafes of some plants in the middle but I'm pretty sure thats because of too much light too early.
60.000lx two days after transplanting them in bigger pots was not a good idea and at the beginning they got only half as much time UVB and the light was 24" above the plants. Burnings look different compared to bleaching..

And do not buy premade T5 fixtures, build them yourself and put the ballast next to your drivers. You need only the mounting sockets to screw in the bulbs and a 2x 54w electronic ballast to drive both bulbs on one ballast. 1mm alu reflector sheet is steep enough to hold sockets and bulb in place and because it is arched it has more than enough rigidity.
Look how it's integrated into my strip fixture(see signature). The reflector in part of the driver housing and forms its base plate.
 
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Belko

Well-Known Member
thank you for your help
i have some more questions^^

Can I expect 80-100μW / cm² UVB at ~18" with the arcadia d3 54w?
and I would like to know at what stage you start exposing your plants to UV.

I always try to wait 5 to 7 days after repotting before playing with the light that the plant is recovering from stress and that the root have time to colonize the substrate ^^, I already had some mishaps

I can get 2 arcadia d3 t5 for ~70 euro
I have to checked for the rest of the material

thanks a lot for the cobs,
there are also the Bxrc-30G4000-c-73-Se

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-30E4000-C-73-SE/976-1562-ND/6557065

I'm still thinking about the cobs the math tell me to go with the 660nm and 730nm ^^

~ 140 lm / w with a factor of 71
~ 2μm / j even with the high Cri that can compensate

~ 2.8jμm/j with Lm301b ~Cri85
remains high and adding deepred far red does not lower μm / j

(Zeus bin for lm301b 3500k cri80
AZUCSK, AZUASK,AZUDSK)just for those interested ^^

I'm always thinking:???:
 
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Randomblame

Well-Known Member
thank you for your help
i have some more questions^^

Can I expect 80-100μW / cm² UVB at ~18" with the arcadia d3 54w?
and I would like to know at what stage you start exposing your plants to UV.

I always try to wait 5 to 7 days after repotting before playing with the light that the plant is recovering from stress and that the root have time to colonize the substrate ^^, I already had some mishaps

I can get 2 arcadia d3 t5 for ~70 euro
I have to checked for the rest of the material

thanks a lot for the cobs,
there are also the Bxrc-30G4000-c-73-Se

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-30E4000-C-73-SE/976-1562-ND/6557065

I'm still thinking about the cobs the math tell me to go with the 660nm and 730nm ^^

~ 140 lm / w with a factor of 71
~ 2μm / j even with the high Cri that can compensate

~ 2.8jμm/j with Lm301b ~Cri85
remains high and adding deepred far red does not lower μm / j

(Zeus bin for lm301b 3500k cri80
AZUCSK, AZUASK,AZUDSK)just for those interested ^^

I'm always thinking:???:
The 4ft./54w bulbs are 2 times more powerful like the 2ft./24w bulbs and cover twice as much area and because it's the same T5 tech you can expect almost idendical readings below the bulbs. It's 54w because it bridge the gap between two 24w bulbs. You can use the test results in the .pdf I've posted a few days ago. It's from 2012 and Arcadia has for sure improved them so it's maybe a little more now but I would not expect it's less.

Adding deep- and far-red to efficient CRI80 white is a lot more efficient but using COB's is easier and more homogeneous because there are no crossfadings. In the past, many manufacturers like Osram combined white and deep red into CRI90 arrays but COBs have replaced these types of arrays for a while.
One reason for lower par readings of CRI90 is that a part of the light is above 700nm but this part can have a big impact. It's known that these wavelength even out the excitation states between PS-I and PS-II which occur with LED lighting without far-red.
IMO, a good idea to add this wavelength.

These are the sockets I meaned. Pretty cheap and takes maybe 3-4 weeks because of shipping but quality is good. You need single core wire to connect them to the ballast I've used 0,8 and 1mm ∅ and both fits good with the slip-in connectors inside the sockets.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/5-Stueck-T5-Lampen-Halter-Lampenfassung-Rohrzubehoer-Lampe-Alterungstest-AC-G5P7/263367735585?hash=item3d51f0b921:g:H3cAAOSwaSZaJuD2

I will search for a siutable ballast too, wait a minute..
 
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