Are cars like the Tesla Model S the future?
- Thread starter Canna Sylvan
- Start date
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
1.6L engine.... 502hp....
Those electric motors weigh 22kg and produce 200hp and 300 'torques'... lol
ginwilly
Well-Known Member
unreal
Got a friend who says the answer to our energy needs is to "build a better toaster". He's speaking metaphorically of course because the technology of toasters is pretty much the same since it's inception. I need to show him this toaster, very promising.
racerboy71
bud bootlegger
what does anyone think of this kind of technology? i'm personally not a fan of electric cars, and think internal combustion has seen it's peak, not to mention the drain on fossil fuels, which i'd love to see us get away from, but not by using even more outdated tech..
anyhoo's, a combo of internal combustion, and energy recovery lost under breaking and in the form of heat to electric...
Long-time fans of Formula One racing will be familiar with the concept of a Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS), technology that was introduced to the sport in 2009 and was a mainstay from 2011. KERS worked by harnessing waste energy created under braking and transforming it into electrical energy, providing an additional 60kW (approximately 80bhp) of power for up to 6.67 seconds per lap.
The Energy Recovery Systems (ERS) which form an integral part of an F1 car’s power unit from 2014 take the concept of KERS to another level, combining twice the power with a performance effect around ten times greater.
ERS comprise two energy recovery systems (Motor Generator Unit - Kinetic [MGU-K] and Motor Generator Unit - Heat [MGU-H]), plus an Energy Store (ES) and control electronics.
The motor generator units convert mechanical and heat energy to electrical energy and vice versa. MGU-K works like an uprated version of KERS, converting kinetic energy generated under braking into electricity (rather than it escaping as heat). It also acts as a motor under acceleration, returning up to 120kW (approximately 160bhp) power to the drivetrain from the Energy Store.
MGU-H is an energy recovery system connected to the turbocharger of the engine and converts heat energy from exhaust gases into electrical energy. The energy can then be used to power the MGU-K (and thus the drivetrain) or be retained in the ES for subsequent use. Unlike the MGU-K which is limited to recovering 2MJ of energy per lap, the MGU-H is unlimited. MGU-H also controls the speed of the turbo, speeding it up (to prevent turbo lag) or slowing it down in place of a more traditional wastegate.
A maximum of 4MJ per lap can be returned to the MGU-K and from there to the drivetrain - that’s ten times more than with 2013’s KERS. That means drivers should have an additional 160bhp or so for approximately 33 seconds per lap.
anyhoo's, a combo of internal combustion, and energy recovery lost under breaking and in the form of heat to electric...
Long-time fans of Formula One racing will be familiar with the concept of a Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS), technology that was introduced to the sport in 2009 and was a mainstay from 2011. KERS worked by harnessing waste energy created under braking and transforming it into electrical energy, providing an additional 60kW (approximately 80bhp) of power for up to 6.67 seconds per lap.
The Energy Recovery Systems (ERS) which form an integral part of an F1 car’s power unit from 2014 take the concept of KERS to another level, combining twice the power with a performance effect around ten times greater.
ERS comprise two energy recovery systems (Motor Generator Unit - Kinetic [MGU-K] and Motor Generator Unit - Heat [MGU-H]), plus an Energy Store (ES) and control electronics.
The motor generator units convert mechanical and heat energy to electrical energy and vice versa. MGU-K works like an uprated version of KERS, converting kinetic energy generated under braking into electricity (rather than it escaping as heat). It also acts as a motor under acceleration, returning up to 120kW (approximately 160bhp) power to the drivetrain from the Energy Store.
MGU-H is an energy recovery system connected to the turbocharger of the engine and converts heat energy from exhaust gases into electrical energy. The energy can then be used to power the MGU-K (and thus the drivetrain) or be retained in the ES for subsequent use. Unlike the MGU-K which is limited to recovering 2MJ of energy per lap, the MGU-H is unlimited. MGU-H also controls the speed of the turbo, speeding it up (to prevent turbo lag) or slowing it down in place of a more traditional wastegate.
A maximum of 4MJ per lap can be returned to the MGU-K and from there to the drivetrain - that’s ten times more than with 2013’s KERS. That means drivers should have an additional 160bhp or so for approximately 33 seconds per lap.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
if you wanna drive a plastic bodied betty crocker kitchen mixer 2 inches off the ground on a specially maintained track and die in a firey crash at 120mph, thats cool. most people dont want that.
F1 solutions are not real world solutions. they are not even proof of concept for new technologies any more. they are a display, and each year that display becomes more esoteric, and more divorced from reality.
eventually F1 will consist of maglev electric bumpercars moving over an electrified track at 400mph, doing loops, barrel rolls and long distance jumps, like the shitty Wachowski Brothers version of Speed Racer.
Edit: my apologies to the Cohen Brothers.
this technicolor shitpile:
not this classic awesomness:
racerboy71
bud bootlegger
shit, die a fiery death at 120 mph?? if i'm gonna die in a fiery death, you'd best bet i'd be doing at least 220 and a smile on my face..if you wanna drive a plastic bodied betty crocker kitchen mixer 2 inches off the ground on a specially maintained track and die in a firey crash at 120mph, thats cool. most people dont want that.
F1 solutions are not real world solutions. they are not even proof of concept for new technologies any more. they are a display, and each year that display becomes more esoteric, and more divorced from reality.
eventually F1 will consist of maglev electric bumpercars moving over an electrified track at 400mph, doing loops, barrel rolls and long distance jumps, like the shitty Wachowski Brothers version of Speed Racer.
Edit: my apologies to the Cohen Brothers.
this technicolor shitpile:
not this classic awesomness:
btw, there hasn't been a death in those death traps since 1994, when the late, great, aryton senna died at imola..
racerboy71
bud bootlegger
and i disagree, tons of automotive technology surely stems from f1. things like abs, traction control, engine management systems are all seen in today's road going cars..if you wanna drive a plastic bodied betty crocker kitchen mixer 2 inches off the ground on a specially maintained track and die in a firey crash at 120mph, thats cool. most people dont want that.
F1 solutions are not real world solutions. they are not even proof of concept for new technologies any more. they are a display, and each year that display becomes more esoteric, and more divorced from reality.
eventually F1 will consist of maglev electric bumpercars moving over an electrified track at 400mph, doing loops, barrel rolls and long distance jumps, like the shitty Wachowski Brothers version of Speed Racer.
Edit: my apologies to the Cohen Brothers.
this technicolor shitpile:
not this classic awesomness:
i'm not sure if this technology will ever see it's place in my vw gti, but not everything is always a winner.. i'm not sure how i feel about this personally, will have to wait and see, and hear, to be continued..
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
F1 hasnt brought any new ideas to the general automotive marketplace in decades.
even Nascar has become divorced from it's roots as Stock Car Racing, where manufacturers would showcase their technology with actual stock cars, which were required to be production models.
now Nascar is pure bullshit. tube framed rollcages all with the same drive train and technology, wearing a plastic shell with arbitrary logos stuck to them.
i like the Rally races, like Baha, and Paris to Dakkar. those races prove new technologies.
drag racing, nascar and F1 are largely irrelevant
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7934857.stm
F1 inspires thigns outside of the automotive world, too.
Any car with a KERS system, Lotus, Ferrari, McLaren, Mazda, Chevy, etc., etc., etc., have been heavily influenced by F1....
The microprocessors BMW uses in their 8 series were first used in F1, and the sequential gearshifts and launch control have been used in their M3 and M5 models as well.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
funny, i cant find a single production car with a KERS system of any sort.
volvo is experimenting, but it's still a one-off experimental concept car, not slated for production in the foreseeable future.
i have never seen a production car with a "Launch Control" (need clarification on this term)
and sequential gearshifts have been used on motorcycles for nearly a century.
the lame ass paddle shifters used by ricers and douchey euro sportscar enthusiasts provide no improvement in economy, efficiency, or power.
they are are a geegaw to please recreational drivers who want to imagine they are outlaw racers living on the edge, while driving to their pilates class.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Dozens of production cars have Launch Control. Can't find a one with KERS though.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
My GTI has launch control. Nissan GTR has launch control, Golf-R, Pretty much every Audi, Porsches, Bugatti, Lambourghini, you name itl they all have launch control.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/lotus-ready-to-launch-esprit-super-car/
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ferrari/2014-ferrari-laferrari-ar128704.html
Mazda uses the i-ELOOP, but Chevy uses regenerative braking... : / not the same beast. Just 'paddle shifters' don't do much unless you go to the track, then you don't have to take your hands off the wheel.
Dual-clutch gearboes often use paddle shifters, and they're just uber cool. They provide significant performaces over manual or automatic transmissions.
twostrokenut
Well-Known Member
Car of the future should be a clean two-stroke.....a la Evinrude...........just me huh?
Pinworm
Well-Known Member
Car of the future is obviously supposed to be a Delorian. Duh.
twostrokenut
Well-Known Member
it should be safe iirc that thing is pretty hefty
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
after numerous unsuccessful attempts to find out what "launch Contol" might be in this context, i finally learned that this is the douche-tastical clownish name applied to auxiliary electric motors used to give a boost at acceleration.
"performance" hybrids that use their electrics to improve acceleration, rather than for economy are not news to me.
"dual clutch" gearboxes are AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS with delusions of grandeur. manual transmissions of the old types (synchronized and un-synchronized) are still the best choice for power reliability and economy. the new electronically controlled automatic transmissions adored by fucknozzle ricers are not better, they just have an avid following of numbnuts fanboys who believe oversize exhaust tips and edelbrock stickers on their rear window will make their hyundai perform like a ferarri.
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
Doc, the new NSX with a performance hybrid engine and AWD is supposed to take on the 458. If I were given the choice, I'd take the NSX over the 458 and especially the Tesla Model 8 fully loaded model.
ginwilly
Well-Known Member
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
No they are not. Not even close.
Dual clutch gearboxes don't have torque converters.
Dual clutch gear boxes are TWO SEPARATE MANUAL GEARBOXES controlled by a computer. Two separate clutches, one for odd gears, one for even gears. There is very little in common with an automatic transmission.
Hyundai doesn't make a dual-clutch. Neither do most manufacturers for any type of production vehicle.
It's pretty much limited to VW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, etc.
Launch control in most cars just makes the engine hold at a certain point, basically it's holding the clutch and gas, then dumping it (albeit in a controilled fashion). It knocks a substantial amount of time off of the 0-60 time.