What is your problem

[Ace Yonder]

it's based on the "pool" effect..when you are part of a large group the cost of your "share" is lower..shares must be equal..therefore all policies would have to have certain coverages whether they are used or not.

Spot on, you summed up everything I was saying with one sentence. I am envious of your brevity!

 

[Ace Yonder]

The majority of citizens in this country do not take birth control so this not about helping the most. Insurance companies were forced to pre-exempting conditions (finally!). A way to get agreement from them is to give them money to make up the difference. It costs you no less for birth control pills whether I have coverage for it or not. It's not the insurance companies that are paying for it, it's you through your deductible.

Politically it was brilliant. "how can we give the insurance companies money, force people to buy stuff they don't need or want so insurance companies can maintain their profits?" "hey, we can use our war on women rhetoric, we get to screw over the public and shout at any opposition that they hate women!, it polls well in our studies" "yes, and instead of us having to defend this policy, they'll have to defend why they hate women, it's brilliant!"

This is an example of arguing with a false premise, just like when you said that birth control was "Free and easily acquired" which is only true of a very small part of our country. Studies have shown over and over that just about 99% of women use some form of birth control at some point in their lives. 99% of women might not be a majority if you include men in the equation, but it is still almost 49% of the total population, which is about as close as you will ever get. Birth control is not something that most people don't use, it is something that almost everyone does use, regardless of if they admit to it or not. You have the attitude of someone who has not seen how bad things really are for people, women in particular, in a lot of this country.

 

[Ace Yonder]

What happens when your religion requires that you actively propagate your religion?

We see what happens constantly. You annoy me at my door at 7am, asking if I know that god will end our suffering on earth, and often you become violent when people don't convert to your religion or do things you don't think they should be allowed to do.

 

[Ace Yonder]

Our lust to stick it to the church has put a veil over our eyes of who we really stuck it to.

No man, your lust to not give one penny to insurance companies has put a veil over your eyes as you fight the churches fight for them in their attempt to stick it to poor women who can't pay for or don't have access to birth control.

 

[ginwilly]

No man, your lust to not give one penny to insurance companies has put a veil over your eyes as you fight the churches fight for them in their attempt to stick it to poor women who can't pay for or don't have access to birth control.

What women were denied access to free bc pills before the bill?

 

[ginwilly]

This is an example of arguing with a false premise, just like when you said that birth control was "Free and easily acquired" which is only true of a very small part of our country. Studies have shown over and over that just about 99% of women use some form of birth control at some point in their lives. 99% of women might not be a majority if you include men in the equation, but it is still almost 49% of the total population, which is about as close as you will ever get. Birth control is not something that most people don't use, it is something that almost everyone does use, regardless of if they admit to it or not. You have the attitude of someone who has not seen how bad things really are for people, women in particular, in a lot of this country.

working in the medical field I've seen some horrors. The birth control pill issue was a political ploy. It would have been just as easy to say bc pills are free if you want them, no need to have insurance (or a prescription if we really wanted to do it right). In fact, at planned parenthood outlets all over the country they WERE free. Doctor's in rural areas gave samples to those who couldn't afford them right up until the Stark Law prevented pharma's from giving out more than 50 bucks in samples.

There are more women uninsured now than before the bill was signed. Yet emotionally, you have shown that the rhetoric is what you will stand behind no matter what. If this bill were to make sure that the pills were free for all, and less women are insured now, then surely, a different plan would have been better.

I'm arguing with people who have never been involved with the workings of healthcare defending a bill written by people who were never involved in healthcare.

I remember Obama saying you may go to the ER with a sore on your foot but the doctor will amputate the foot because he makes more money.

We simply can't reason with people like that. I hear that shit repeated at least once a week. The people who are trumpeting the bill are appealing to people's emotions, not logic.

 

[UncleBuck]

If that were all the war on women were about, I would be forced to agree. But it isn't. Remove health clinics, subject women who want to get abortions to invasive ultrsound. Force them to listen to government mandated "exhortations", keep doctors from being able to suggest certain proceedures, virtualy eliminate family planning clinics from cities and even states, ensure that women don't get paid the same for the same work, po po their claims of rape, turn a blind eye to sexual abuse in the work place or the military. If it were just this thing, then you would have a point. It isn't - you don't. And again, I am uncertain but I believe that male erection pills are covered.

don't forget that doctors are literally required to lie to women about abortion in several states.

yes, you heard that right. republicans require doctors to lie to women about abortion by force of law in several states.

so much for that small government shit.

 

[ginwilly]

don't forget that doctors are literally required to lie to women about abortion in several states.

yes, you heard that right. republicans require doctors to lie to women about abortion by force of law in several states.

so much for that small government shit.

Yes, that's a load. When those bills were passed around, doctor's banned together and said our Hippocratic Oath trumps this stupidity.

That was an idiotic attempt at stopping abortion, how many states actually signed it? I think I heard Kansas did, but I know at least 3 more had similar bills in legislation.

Has there been any documented cases of this actually happening?

I googled "are doctors required by law to lie about abortion" and found thousands of websites declaring it to be true, I clicked off web and hit news, and nothing about it comes up. Seems like if any of these bills had passed it would have made news.

Not denying the attempt though, and the idiocy behind the attempt. I just can't find any instances where the attempts were successful.

Abortion is the emotional hot topic for the right that requires no logic, only emotion to support. I'm not saying both sides aren't guilty of it. I wish people from both sides would stop using emotional pleas, but it works as evidenced by the ACA support.

 

[ginwilly]

No man, your lust to not give one penny to insurance companies has put a veil over your eyes as you fight the churches fight for them in their attempt to stick it to poor women who can't pay for or don't have access to birth control.

remember the negotiations that were supposed to be on C-span but never were? Remember when we were told they had struck a deal with Big Pharma for 2Billion dollars? What was it? Was it free BC pills?

 

[UncleBuck]

remember the negotiations that were supposed to be on C-span but never were? Remember when we were told they had struck a deal with Big Pharma for 2Billion dollars? What was it? Was it free BC pills?

you need to abandon your right wing conspiracy websites in a major way.

 

[ginwilly]

you need to abandon your right wing conspiracy websites in a major way.

It's not a right wing thing, it was an American thing. We were promised public negotiations, were told "we neg this" after the fact but were never told what the results were. Or if we were, I never saw them.

Do you have a link to what pharma gave up?

 

[ChesusRice]

remember the negotiations that were supposed to be on C-span but never were? Remember when we were told they had struck a deal with Big Pharma for 2Billion dollars? What was it? Was it free BC pills?

http://www.c-span.org/search.aspx?For=affordable+care+act

 

[ginwilly]

http://www.c-span.org/search.aspx?For=affordable+care+act

appreciate the effort Cheesus, but when I type in pharmaceutical negotiations during health care debate this is what comes up

No search results were found

cool site though

 

[ginwilly]

when I try, pharma gives up 2 Billion during neg, this is what comes up

No search results were found

 

[GOD HERE]

appreciate the effort Cheesus, but when I type in pharmaceutical negotiations during health care debate this is what comes up

No search results were found

cool site though

when I try, pharma gives up 2 Billion during neg, this is what comes up

No search results were found

Probably your shit spelling and poorly thought out keywords.

 

[UncleBuck]

Probably your shit spelling and poorly thought out keywords.

nope, it's a major birth control conspiracy. just like sandra fluke is a conspiracy.

 

[ginwilly]

Probably your shit spelling and poorly thought out keywords.

You seem like such a good person. Surely you can spell it right for me then and help a brother out? We are all in this together man. I'm searching for information our government hinted at. If you could find it, we can all learn together.

Or you can be an ass and make your argument an ad hom argument instead of a fact finding argument. You aren't THAT guy are you?

 

[Pinworm]

so the troll torch has been passed, yippee

Tiny penis says what?

 

[Pinworm]

[video=youtube;HVvcslW21lQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVvcslW21lQ[/video]

 

[Rob Roy]

An excerpt from an article at Strike the Root. Obamacare is the forced subjugation of people, which is of course an attribute of slavery....have fun...slaves.


Why is slavery wrong? Slavery is wrong because it treats the two parties as inherently different with respect to each other, and they are not. In the relationship between ruler and ruled, the ruled party is treated as chattel and the ruling party assumes the role of directing the ruled party’s actions.
What is equality? In human social interaction, being equal does not mean being identical. No two people are identical. Equality means that with respect to other humans, and in interacting with them, the moral stature of each is identical in the absence of any contrary evidence. This is because in relevant respects, they are both free-willed autonomous individuals.
What are rights? It doesn’t matter what rights are. What matters is that they are the same for each person, again in the absence of any contrary evidence. This is what it means to say, “All men are created equal.” Slavery is an instant denial of rights, because it instantly denies the equal rights of the two parties.
How can slavery happen if each person has equal rights? Slavery doesn’t “happen;” slavery is done. Slavery is one party denying the equal standing of the other party, and it can only be done through forceful coercion. Without that, the ruled party may walk away from the ruler and the slavery doesn’t occur.
Why is the threat of slavery–or aggression or compulsion–wrong? As all humans are creatures of free will, the declaration of the intent to impose physical aggression against another, is tantamount to actually doing it.