Wavels
Well-Known Member
The pathetic fact is that there are those among us who think that this should be so.
So disturbingly sad.
Why does anyone think that life has to be fair?
"Someone has to clean the toilets"
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
So disturbingly sad.
Why does anyone think that life has to be fair?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I think it is because some people think money buys happiness regardless of the blatant evidence to the contrary. And therefore equal money is equal happiness...
Also, the "American Dream" is a cliche. It isnt the same for everyone so how can it be fair for everyone??? Who decides?
Wavels
Well-Known Member
Aha,
The Government knows what all of our dreams are, and they will be the best arbitrator of who achieves bliss.
What nonsense!
Balke Buds
Member
Nonsense=bullshit that pisses me the fuck off.Aha,
The Government knows what all of our dreams are, and they will be the best arbitrator of who achieves bliss.
What nonsense!
The only possible explanation I can come up with for a human being to want some other human being to tell them what to do and control every aspect of their world is because they suck so bad at living that they have given up all hope at achieving anything they want...so they let other people dictate their fate...because fuck it, there aint no hope.
That is my way of describing liberals who love big government and lots of rules.
The American dream is attainable for all, now more than ever. What I mean by that is in days past if you were black, female, an immigrant, or hell even catholic there was an artificial limit placed on how far you could advance.
But still, there managed to be some who broke through this. The 19th century has many stories of free black men become very successful by any standard, and also at timed when they were oppressed, they could achieve levels of success within their own communities. So even in their darkest hours, in this country, a version of the American dream was avaliable to them. That doesn't make Jim Crow any less evil, but it wasn't a total barrier to success.
Anyway, these days all those barriers are lifted, granted we don't all have the same starting point, and sadly ones race has a strong correlation with the SES, and where we start out can impact how we finish. But these limitations are often self imposed in a sense. Getting out of the projects can be done, it is unfortunate that being emerged in that culture is likely to foster a continuation of that culture.
I think the American dream is alive and well. Sure, it isn't easy, and there are some who seems to think that the American dream means that reaching it involves being super wealthy. I dont think you have to be rich at all to realize the American dream.
To me a person who has worked, earned a home, provided for his family, and saved to have a dignified retirement has achieved this, even if his home is rather modest, he has never owned a new car, and he couldn't afford to write a check for his children's college.
The American dream is what you make it. Some people won't do what it takes.
over a year ago I was practically homeless, committing felonies and misdemeanors on a daily, or hourly basis to feed a heroin/pain pill habit, but somehow through the grace of god i don't have a criminal record at all. Because I don't, today I have a good job, and all the long term consequences I have is a bad credit score resulting from my two year sabbatical from life and responsibility.
I would say that is the American dream, in many ways.
I remember my very first actual job outside the family. I was 15 and worked for a BBQ food joint. I was tasked with pulling weeds, cleaning bathrooms, washing dishes etc etc , all the crappy jobs, I was low man on the totem pole. Guess what? I got a different job a few months later, then another and another, before you know it I was making $22 an hour in 1979 by the time I was 18.
Most people have to start at the bottom and work their way up, expecting to just be placed in a high paying responsible position right out of school is nothing more than a dream for the vast majority of people.
Most people have to start at the bottom and work their way up, expecting to just be placed in a high paying responsible position right out of school is nothing more than a dream for the vast majority of people.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
What if there is nowhere to go?
Most recent data shows people are putting off retirement until later, the managerial jobs are few and far between
There is always somewhere to go, perhaps not immediately, but inevitably, there is.
There is also some common sense to have here. If you go to work for an individual, and are in a low paying position, suppose the guy owns a small store and he runs it most of the time, your job is to fill in when he cant be there and do some of the dirty work, then your job if you are wanting to get ahead in life is to look around for other entry-level jobs.
Any person who is ambitious is always looking for better work if they aren't satisfied with where they currently are. If there is no room for advancement where you are, go get in at the bottom at a place where there is room to grow.
Yeah, you might have to be the low guy for a year or more, but eventually, if you consistently show up when your supposed to, on time, give effort, and don't do anything socially stupid (curs out guests, co-workers and supervisors) eventually you will be rewarded.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
When you get desperate enough there is always a job.
Most people don't want to do it, so plumbers make good money these days. Since occasionally you have to open up a septic tank and pump it out, or crawl under a house with a leaking pipe in the mud, many refuse to do it.
I know several plumbers who make bank.
Dad said when he was young plumbers didn't make shit. Now they charge $40/hr or better and have little overhead outside of permanent expenditures.
All you really need is a van/truck and a couple thousand dollars of tools to start taking residential jobs.
Of course you really need to get a job for a plumber first and be his helper for $8/hr.. So fuck that right?
I know several plumbers who make bank.
Dad said when he was young plumbers didn't make shit. Now they charge $40/hr or better and have little overhead outside of permanent expenditures.
All you really need is a van/truck and a couple thousand dollars of tools to start taking residential jobs.
Of course you really need to get a job for a plumber first and be his helper for $8/hr.. So fuck that right?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
there will always be someone to clean the toilets.
the righties will tell you that it's a privilege and you shouldn't look down on them.
then, when that person's wages are nowhere near enough to pay the bills, they will call that person a lazy entitled mooch for getting food stamps or heating assistance.
righties are just the best.
the righties will tell you that it's a privilege and you shouldn't look down on them.
then, when that person's wages are nowhere near enough to pay the bills, they will call that person a lazy entitled mooch for getting food stamps or heating assistance.
righties are just the best.
In this modern reality there is nowhere to go for millions of people. They're economically unnecessary. When you consider how many people automation and outsourcing have made economically irrelevant, the growth in government dependence makes perfect sense.
I've often thought that raising a child was the most important responsibility we as humans have. Yet those among us who are least capable seem to be having the most children.
You need a license to drive, to hunt, to fish, to get married, or to start a business. But any moron with nuts can squirt his load into a uterus and have a child and there are no repercussions to them (from society), in fact, we give them money.
Wouldn't it make sense to require a license to bring a child into this world? Doing so without a license could be met with forced sterilization or something, any such rule would require teeth.
Ultimately this is a "big government solution" so I would want it done through the states and not the federal government.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
go ahead. tennessee can go first.
On that basis I never would have existed. Meanwhile, on that same basis, legions of worthless, coddled, empty people would have existed. I tend to be more bothered by "capable" people having children than "non-capable" people having children. The child with nothing dreams of more; the child with everything dreams only of himself.
I get what you're saying.
I'm certainly not implying that anyone is any more or less worthy of existence because of the perceived responsibility of their parents. There are plenty of complete failures from good families, and plenty of success stories from broken homes.
But the post you made, I think, seemed to imply that our population was too large for our current ability to distribute everyone with adequate employment.
What to do?
While I do think many people could benefit from encouraging less births among those too young or poor to fully and independently support a child, such as giving out free birth control to women, I'm not a fan of state sponsored limitations. Despite the argument that could be made for a license requirement for fishing and not raising a child, that almost seems to be a step too far.
Most often though, trailer trash breeds trailer trash, middle class breeds middle class. But not always.
I think the capture of wealth by the wealthy justifies additional taxation that can be used to support the economically irrelevant people, since their capture of that wealth made those people economically irrelevant.
If you abide by that you deprive humanity of some of the greatest minds in human history. It's not worth it.
Oh, how much money should we leave these wealthy people with? How much of their money should they get to keep?
It is why I ended the sentence with "not always."
Survival is quite cheap. When someone's wealth has increased from $1 million to $50 million in 10 years, adjusted for inflation, I feel little sympathy.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
the result of your "solution would be a nation of these:
you would usher in the Idiocracy?