Are cars like the Tesla Model S the future?

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
VW says 261 MPG, and it's not a car, it's a plastic box on wheels with a lawnmower engine (800cc @ 47 HP) and weighs 1800Lbs
my motorcycle's engine is more powerful and it's only a 750cc @ 50.8 HP and weighs in at ~508 Lbs

so LESS HP from a larger engine in a vehicle that weighs 3.5x more and they claim they will get 261 MPG, from a diesel, while i get ~45 MPG from my bike.

i just dont believe it.

much like the original 60+ mpg claims for the prius, (actually ~45, and even then, only if you start with a fully charged battery and only on the highway) these claims are almost certainly pure hype.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
VW says 261 MPG,
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/futures/xl1

The world’s most fuel-efficient car, the Volkswagen XL1, which was first unveiled at the Qatar Motor Show in 2011, has now been confirmed for an initial production run of 250 examples.
Pioneering construction techniques, an advanced plug-in hybrid drivetrain and innovative packaging all play a part in allowing the XL1 to return 313 mpg on the combined cycle while emitting 24 g/km of CO2 to set a new benchmark for vehicle efficiency.


Powering the XL1 is a compact 800 cc TDI two-cylinder common rail diesel engine developing 48 PS. It’s linked to an electric motor producing 27 PS, resulting in a total of 75 PS – a modest output yet more than enough when the low kerb weight (795 kg) of the vehicle is taken into account.


The TDI engine is linked to an electric motor and a seven-speed DSG gearbox with an automatic clutch mounted between each unit. The electric motor can either work independently of the TDI engine or in tandem when accelerating. Accelerating from rest to 62 mph can be achieved in 11.9 seconds; the electronically limited top speed is 99 mph. Thanks to its plug-in hybrid system, the two-seater can cover a distance of up to 50 km in all-electric mode and therefore with zero local emissions.

and it's not a car, it's a plastic box on wheels with a lawnmower engine (800cc @ 47 HP) and weighs 1800Lbs
Turbodiesel hybrid lawnmowers?

my motorcycle's engine is more powerful and it's only a 750cc @ 50.8 HP and weighs in at ~508 Lbs

so LESS HP from a larger engine in a vehicle that weighs 3.5x more and they claim they will get 261 MPG, from a diesel, while i get ~45 MPG from my bike.

i just dont believe it.

much like the original 60+ mpg claims for the prius, (actually ~45, and even then, only if you start with a fully charged battery and only on the highway) these claims are almost certainly pure hype.
Doesn't really matter if you believe it.

The real delight? The XL-1 only has a 10-litre fuel tank. We were averaging just under 170mpg. It's a remarkable thing.
170mpg is no joke. Much better than your 45mpg of your bike. Not to mention you can drive it comfortably in the rain, with a passenger and a load of groceries.

I know you just like shitting on anything you don't post yourself, but there's nothing worth shitting on here, so move along little man.

The current XL1′s tiny diesel engine, combined with its electric motor, puts out 68 hp and 103 pound-feet of torque.
The point of this vehicle was never to make a performance machine, it's to push the boundaries thought possible by a combustion engine/hybrid setup. VW has Bugatti, Porsche, Audi, and Lambourghini to do performance cars.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Ironically, I read this rumor about the vehicle;

More specifically, VW is supposedly sourcing the engine from the Ducati 1199 Panigale superbike. That particular engine cranks out 187 hp at 10,750 rpm and 91 pound-feet of torque at 9,000 rpm.
Engine swap?
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/about-us/futures/xl1






Turbodiesel hybrid lawnmowers?



Doesn't really matter if you believe it.



170mpg is no joke. Much better than your 45mpg of your bike. Not to mention you can drive it comfortably in the rain, with a passenger and a load of groceries.

I know you just like shitting on anything you don't post yourself, but there's nothing worth shitting on here, so move along little man.



The point of this vehicle was never to make a performance machine, it's to push the boundaries thought possible by a combustion engine/hybrid setup. VW has Bugatti, Porsche, Audi, and Lambourghini to do performance cars.
so, less than half the fuel economy claimed (again only with a fully charged battery at cruise), in a puttputt mobile that cant make highway speeds, and can only accommodate anorexic models and skinny emokids...

you can get really impressive mileage on a bicycle with a tiny engine too, that doesnt make it a solution.

i love that you are so butthurt though.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
so, less than half the fuel economy claimed (again only with a fully charged battery at cruise), in a puttputt mobile that cant make highway speeds, and can only accommodate anorexic models and skinny emokids...

you can get really impressive mileage on a bicycle with a tiny engine too, that doesnt make it a solution.

i love that you are so butthurt though.
LOL - 170mpg average is fantastic. They claim a max of 313mpg.

You're looking frantic trying to slam an absolutely incredible piece of engineering. "Uggghhh fuck, it's plastic? Ummm... it's small? Ugggghhhh.... " *Struggles breathing*

It's electronically limited to 100mph. Pretty sure that's highway speeds, chief.

Don't slam the idea just because you think you're too fat to ride in one. Maybe they'll make an XL model for 'plus sized' models. lol

It's light because they designed a new material to make it from, using a new technology. Carbon reinforced polymer? Magnesium wheels?
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Trouble is the 313 mpg are calculated using the corrupted "plug-in hybrid" rules, in which a certain amount of supplementation by electricity (at infinite mpg) is figured in iirc.

<add> I've been unable to find figures for obligate-fuel-use MPG. I'll wager those are near100mpg. That seems something of a "hard deck" for streetable experimental IC-powered cars at present.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
Flying cars would make the problem of roads a little easier to solve.


Prius only gets 45mpg at best?

Wholly shit ALL my bikes but one do better than that......does that mean I now may look down my nose at those horrible, polluting Prius drivers that are polluting our environment?
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
Ironically, I read this rumor about the vehicle;



Engine swap?
Ducati's are the douchiest engines ever....aside from enjoying displacement advantages over the Japanese Big 4 for the loooooongest time the maintenance is so frequent and expensive when I sold my KLR650 I had no less that 5 Duc owners look and say just that.....they wanted to ride the KLR and save the Duc for special occasions.


you can get really impressive mileage on a bicycle with a tiny engine too, that doesnt make it a solution.
IDK they come out at night around here....my gf says they're all "tweekers".....they are all two strokes and require no insurance or tags. Makes me proud of California it does.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Trouble is the 313 mpg are calculated using the corrupted "plug-in hybrid" rules, in which a certain amount of supplementation by electricity (at infinite mpg) is figured in iirc.

<add> I've been unable to find figures for obligate-fuel-use MPG. I'll wager those are near100mpg. That seems something of a "hard deck" for streetable experimental IC-powered cars at present.
Top gear took it all across England and average 170mpg.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Top gear took it all across England and average 170mpg.
OK i am curious. Without once "plugging it in", even at outset?

I am skeptical. Folks are trying to build a true 100-mpg car, "IC only", and having trouble.

I am very leery of "plug-in hybrid" efficiency claims. Those dudes cheat.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
OK i am curious. Without once "plugging it in", even at outset?

I am skeptical. Folks are trying to build a true 100-mpg car, "IC only", and having trouble.

I am very leery of "plug-in hybrid" efficiency claims. Those dudes cheat.
One statistic sums up why driving the VW XL1 hyper-economy car feels so special. It takes just 8bhp to push it along at a steady 60mph.

I got way beyond 100mpg on 75mph motorway plus some suburban running. And that was before I shut down the engine permanently and started draining the battery instead by switching to pure-electric mode. The XL1's light weight, low drag and minimised rolling resistance combine to make life as easy as possible for the powertrain, so it ekes out every bit of energy.
It looks like, and is made like, a dinky supercar. From the front there's a low nose and a narrow cabin that you drop into via clamshell doors. The mid-mounted engine has an electric boost motor. It's made almost entirely of carbon fibre, and you can read more about its amazing technology here.
Snuggling down into the lightweight but comfy carbon fibre seat, you have to turn over your shoulder to talk to your passenger, because they are staggered behind you. It's a way to get two people to nestle widthways into a cabin that's hardly wider than a sidecar. That keeps the frontal area down - and combined with a Cd of 0.19, this gives extraordinarily low overall drag.
See more pics of the Volkswagen XL1
It's a lightweight and simple cabin, but it manages to feel pricey and classy, even though there's none of the usual fancy VW gadgetry. The dash display is a simple Garmin-type effort that bundles together the sat nav, entertainment and hybrid readouts. The real novelty is the mirrors - there aren't any. Instead you have lipstick cameras, for drag reduction. They feed colour screens in the doors. Their picture is clear but it's not binocular, so you have to remember your distance perception is hampered.
The XL1 moves away by electric power. And - briefly - it strikes you as cheap and unrefined. The electric motor whines, and percussive road noise resonates through the carbon tub. Sound insulation is heavy, so the XL1 mostly does without. But under way, you seem to leave the noise behind you and things settle into a gentle buzz.
Is it quick? No. In electric mode (selectable by a button unless the battery is flat) you've only got 27bhp. Even in combined diesel and electric mode, it's a not-especially-dizzy 68bhp total. But it weighs less than 800kg, so that power is good for 0-62 in 12.7 sec, about the same as a base-model supermini. Pity it'll probably cost five times more.
But if you didn't plug it in and ran it as a simple hybrid, the engineers say it'll still go through the test at 141mpg. The diesel tank is just 10 litres, but about £1 of electricity and £3 of fuel should get the car 300 miles
To ease your troubled mind.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
LOL - 170mpg average is fantastic. They claim a max of 313mpg.
sure, it would be grand IF IT WORKS
a 2 seater go-kart that cant go uphill unless you get out and push DOESNT WORK

You're looking frantic trying to slam an absolutely incredible piece of engineering. "Uggghhh fuck, it's plastic? Ummm... it's small? Ugggghhhh.... " *Struggles breathing*
i am not desperate to "slam" shit, if just once the grand promises proved to be more than bullshit i would be pleased as punch.

It's electronically limited to 100mph. Pretty sure that's highway speeds, chief.
it's also PHYSICALLY limited to ~671,000,000 MPH. an arbitrarily imposed "limit" which the piece of shit could never attain is irrelevant.

Don't slam the idea just because you think you're too fat to ride in one. Maybe they'll make an XL model for 'plus sized' models. lol
if it cant move anything heavier than an anorexic midget with helium balloons attached to his britches, it aint a car.

It's light because they designed a new material to make it from, using a new technology. Carbon reinforced polymer? Magnesium wheels?
styrofoam, plastic and pot metal.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
sure, it would be grand IF IT WORKS
a 2 seater go-kart that cant go uphill unless you get out and push DOESNT WORK
False.

i am not desperate to "slam" shit, if just once the grand promises proved to be more than bullshit i would be pleased as punch.

it's also PHYSICALLY limited to ~671,000,000 MPH. an arbitrarily imposed "limit" which the piece of shit could never attain is irrelevant.
False.

if it cant move anything heavier than an anorexic midget with helium balloons attached to his britches, it aint a car.

styrofoam, plastic and pot metal.
False again.

Come on Kynesie pynsie, you're just making shit up now.

This just proves my point about you being desperate to slam this for no reason.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
False.



False.



False again.

Come on Kynesie pynsie, you're just making shit up now.

This just proves my point about you being desperate to slam this for no reason.
real world tests will show it to be either a brilliant achievement, or a gimmicky clowncar for self-deluded fools.

my experience with the various past claims of performance and economy make me suspect the latter.


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