What do you think about preventing drug overdoses by legalizing drugs?

[Unclebaldrick]

http://www.ladybud.com/2014/02/04/could-cannabis-really-be-an-exit-drug/

 

[OddBall1st]

The chart shows that no matter how many restrictions you place on illegal drugs, addiction rates remain constant

Do you see that huge jump starting out in 1980? Show me a huge population jump correlating to that same time period, otherwise it is clear to anyone looking at it with an honest frame of mind, the spike in the prison population is directly attributed to the war on drugs, that point cannot be rationally argued

If you start imprisoning people for doing illegal drugs, one would expect that line to go up as more do it. Well it did. What`s the problem again ?

 

[OddBall1st]

Are you suggesting that it is working is wrong ?

 

[OddBall1st]

"If you do this, we`ll put you in jail". You did it, got put in Jail, and you`re bitch`n. Where did I loose ya ?

 

[racerboy71]

To the bolded: do you think for one hot second that legal or moral disapproval will dissuade a junkie?
I suggest that a big problem you've seen with the junkies you've claimed to know comes from their criminal and pariah status.
If junkies were present in society, minus BS laws and BS noses turned up on apparently religious grounds (inconsistent ones considering how you deny their humanity), they'd do a pretty good job all on their own of negatively campaigning for their lifestyles. Like drunks today, say.

this is exactly how i feel as well. if someone wants to do a drug like heroin, the fact that it's illegal won't stop them from doing so.. on the other side of the coin, if someone doesn't want to do heroin, they're not going to run out to walmart to buy some if it were suddenly made legal..

people smoke cannabis now, even though for most of us, it is illegal, correct? what stopped these people who are doing an illegal drug from trying other drugs, such as heroin? it obviously wasn't the fact that it was illegal stopping them, after all, they've showed a willingness to over look the law when it comes to smoking cannabis...

end of discussion right there imvho.. the people who want to do drugs will, despite the law, and those who don't, won't, also despite the law.. legalizing heroin isn't going to make my mom run out and buy some all of a sudden, that thought is simply silly.

 

[OddBall1st]

And it isn`t gonna cut the death rate from heroin either. That`s like giving a kid 100 dollars and sending him into a candy store expecting him to come out with one Hershey bar.

 

[cannabineer]

Who the F` wants to allow it and then spend enormous amounts curing it ?

Why must the cure be expensive? Use alcohol as the model. Wanna be cured? Come up with the will yourself, and make use of the volunteer society that maintains itself to service that need. Straw man argument.

And it isn`t gonna cut the death rate from heroin either. That`s like giving a kid 100 dollars and sending him into a candy store expecting him to come out with one Hershey bar.

And this is why I am not going to argue any more. You say these wrong things and present them as fact. Do you have any objective support for these ideas?

 

[racerboy71]

And it isn`t gonna cut the death rate from heroin either. That`s like giving a kid 100 dollars and sending him into a candy store expecting him to come out with one Hershey bar.

umm, yes, it kind of would.. in fact, there is some "hot" heroin going around the north east atm.. this "hot" heroin is cut with fentanyl, which usually ends up killing the user..
if drugs like heroin were made legal, and the purity of the drug was guaranteed, then "hot" batches of drugs would be a thing of the past, and the number of od's would drop drastically..

 

[Wilksey]

As I understand it, those nasty fucking drugs that need "processing", like heroin, coke, crack and such, are responsible for killing muldoons due to the complete lack of standardization associated with having to operate on the black market. This failure to standardize processing leads to a variety of things used to "cut" the product, which are potentially harmful in and of themselves, and it also leads to a variety of different "strengths" per dosage, including fatal "strengths". In essence, it's like pounding a beverage that one THOUGHT had the strength of say beer, but instead getting the strength of grain alcohol. That's not good.

I would rather citizens have access to products that are standardized using non-harmful processing techniques and additives, and known strength levels so there aren't any surprises...including FATAL surprises.

This is the approach Portugal took, and I believe it is a far more effective, and safer, course of action to manage drug dependency than criminalization is, has been, or ever will be.


This is one of the reasons I will NEVER make, or use, cannabis "wax", as I feel the good Lord (whoever the fuck that may be) gave us a wonderful plant to enjoy safely, and with NO need for processing...except for hash made the old school way, or with something safe like ice water.

 

[OddBall1st]

Why must the cure be expensive? Use alcohol as the model. Wanna be cured? Come up with the will yourself, and make use of the volunteer society that maintains itself to service that need. Straw man argument.



And this is why I am not going to argue any more. You say these wrong things and present them as fact. Do you have any objective support for these ideas?

For heroin, you have to house them, feed them, pay employees, cloth them, do over each time they return.

Want the proof of the candy store theory ?....How Many kids trick or treat at one house and go home ?

Signal up your lines and pull out. I don`t say I presented anything as Fact. But if I did, I`ll back it up. You said that I did. The first sign !i

 

[OddBall1st]

umm, yes, it kind of would.. in fact, there is some "hot" heroin going around the north east atm.. this "hot" heroin is cut with fentanyl, which usually ends up killing the user..
if drugs like heroin were made legal, and the purity of the drug was guaranteed, then "hot" batches of drugs would be a thing of the past, and the number of od's would drop drastically..

Like mentioned earlier, they will chase that high till dead. If you don`t understand "chase that high" get out of this debate.

 

[kinetic]

umm, yes, it kind of would.. in fact, there is some "hot" heroin going around the north east atm.. this "hot" heroin is cut with fentanyl, which usually ends up killing the user..
if drugs like heroin were made legal, and the purity of the drug was guaranteed, then "hot" batches of drugs would be a thing of the past, and the number of od's would drop drastically..

Completely disagree. Legal access of fentanyl caused the "Hot" heroin. A buddy of mine OD from a fentanyl patch he legally acquired because he abused it. The argument of legalization leading to fewer deaths can probably be countered with some stats of OD from legally acquired pharmas.

 

[racerboy71]

As I understand it, those nasty fucking drugs that need "processing", like heroin, coke, crack and such, are responsible for killing muldoons due to the complete lack of standardization associated with having to operate on the black market. This failure to standardize processing leads to a variety of things used to "cut" the product, which are potentially harmful in and of themselves, and it also leads to a variety of different "strengths" per dosage, including fatal "strengths". In essence, it's like pounding a beverage that one THOUGHT had the strength of say beer, but instead getting the strength of grain alcohol. That's not good.

I would rather citizens have access to products that are standardized using non-harmful processing techniques and additives, and known strength levels so there aren't any surprises...including FATAL surprises.

This is the approach Portugal took, and I believe it is a far more effective, and safer, course of action to manage drug dependency than criminalization is, has been, or ever will be.


This is one of the reasons I will NEVER make, or use, cannabis "wax", as I feel the good Lord (whoever the fuck that may be) gave us a wonderful plant to enjoy safely, and with NO need for processing...except for hash made the old school way, or with something safe like ice water.

spot on..
like i said in my post directly above yours, right now fentanyl cut herion is going around.. if heroin were legal, no one would ever buy fentanyl cut heroin again.. tons of people a year die from fentanyl cut dope..

 

[racerboy71]

Completely disagree. Legal access of fentanyl caused the "Hot" heroin. A buddy of mine OD from a fentanyl patch he legally acquired because he abused it. The argument of legalization leading to fewer deaths can probably be countered with some stats of OD from legally acquired pharmas.

i don't think the people putting fentanyl into dope are buying patches and some how extracting the drug and putting it into the heroin.

 

[racerboy71]

Like mentioned earlier, they will chase that high till dead. If you don`t understand "chase that high" get out of this debate.

umm, yeah, ok, you do realize you're talking to an ex herion user, now who is going to get out of this debate??

 

[cannabineer]

For heroin, you have to house them, feed them, pay employees, cloth them, do over each time they return.

No, we don't. Look at alcoholics. We give them the opportunities to cure themselves and keep themselves clean the moment they pony up the necessary will. This is a decision only the addict can make and enforce. It can be dirt-cheap.

Want the proof of the candy store theory ?

Yes please! Show me a study or two.

....How Many kids trick or treat at one house and go home ?

and this has what relevance to drugs?

Signal up your lines and pull out. I don`t say I presented anything as Fact. But if I did, I`ll back it up. You said that I did. The first sign !i

Example: the implication that addiction rates will soar if the hard drugs are made available. You think this is fact or maybe even axiom. I say "show me". It's not an easy argument to either defend or knock down, because the data are so skewed by policy, and policymakers who have too many fingers in the penal pie to be honest about the real shape of the healthcare and civil issues involved. So until then I'm going with a more genteel way of essentially saying "nuh-uuuh! Prove it!"

 

[cannabineer]

Completely disagree. Legal access of fentanyl caused the "Hot" heroin. A buddy of mine OD from a fentanyl patch he legally acquired because he abused it. The argument of legalization leading to fewer deaths can probably be countered with some stats of OD from legally acquired pharmas.

If heroin and fentanyl were both available, truly available without having to game the system in the manner described, how many do you think would choose which one?
The prescription/narcotics law in the USA is such that legal acquisition is quite conditional. How long do you think your buddy will have access to fentanyl once the doc says OK we're done?

 

[kinetic]

i don't think the people putting fentanyl into dope are buying patches and some how extracting the drug and putting it into the heroin.

Fentanyl is only coming from one place. A script pad. (root of alot of problems imho) Nobody is growing it. Legalization is not going to all of a sudden stop sketchy ass people from doing nasty things in the name of profits.

By the way RB, Im glad you are sober and doing well, the 13th fast approaches my friend!

 

[racerboy71]

let me ask you this oddball..

have you ever done hard drugs? if not, why not? was it the fact that these drugs were illegal?
if the answer is yes to question a, my next question is, do you smoke cannabis? why hasn't the fact that cannabis is illegal stopped you from smoking it?

 

[racerboy71]

Fentanyl is only coming from one place. A script pad. (root of alot of problems imho) Nobody is growing it. Legalization is not going to all of a sudden stop sketchy ass people from doing nasty things in the name of profits.

By the way RB, Im glad you are sober and doing well, the 13th fast approaches my friend!

see, but fentanyl is a legally prescribed drug atm, while heroin isn't.. the fetanyl you walk into cvs and buy is pure fentanyl.. the heroin you buy on the street has god only knows what in it..
my point was if you could walk into a cvs and buy smack, then it would be pure smack, not cut with any nasties including fentanyl, therefore lowering the o.d. rates.. of course there's always going to be a black market for drugs, but if legal, by and large most people imo would opt for the cvs herion, that was guaranteed to be pure and clean and not risk buying it off the street and worrying about hot doses..

and thanks kinetic, yes it is, in another 4 or so months i'll have 13 years..