three plants - good till week 10 or 11 then problems

ganjanoob536

New Member
This is only my second grow - both in soil in individual pots. First went well, not perfect but good results - a seed and its clone.

This one was from three seeds of unknown types donated by three friends. All three plants were doing excellent until about the middle of week 10, when they first started developing buds.

Plant 1 , from the beginning was different from the others. Its leaves were ten times as plentiful (more than I had ever seen on a plant) but smaller and somewhat cupped with the center of the leaves raised higher than the edges, but beautifully green and seemingly healthy. Its stalk, however, was super thin. Nonetheless, it seemed to be thriving prior to week ten and a half. Then it began to develop buds, and it was as if that was too much strain for it. It suddenly drooped badly and the leaves drooped visibly as well. The other two plants were still doing ok at this point. There was no discoloration of this plants leaves. I did a quick lookup and mistakenly followed advice I did not understand and poisoned that plant with too much Epsom salts and it died in under six hours. I understand what killed it but not what happened initially to it.

Plant 2 was still doing good and also just begun to show buds on the day Plant 1 began showing signs of problems, but a day later began to show some yellowing starting at the outer tips of the leaves, which seemed to me to match pictures of a calcium deficiency, so I carefully boosted that in the nutrients. Its leaves began to dry up and fall off and the plant got very thin, leaf-wise. The stalk had always been a bit 'leggy' but now it was 2/3 leg. I have tried several things, and nothing had any effect on it whatsoever. There is some new growth, smaller leaves showing budding, but it has been stalled at that level for two weeks. I have three types of testers. The digital soil probe shows 7.0 ph so clearly I wonder if it even works. The other testers show ph ranges from 6.8 to 7.2 depending on where I test. Moisture is mid-range. 'Nutrients' a little low, but not much.

Plant 3 was healthy looking longer than the others. Its stalk was healthy looking, not too leggy, and its leaves generally good. It had started budding fairly plentifully. Then about week 11 it just seems to have stopped. Some of the leaves look a bit droopy/dried (some thinning of leaves occurring), and there is a little bit of yellowing on some leaves in all ranges of the plant. The buds stopped at the stage they were at and in two weeks, no change. Tester reading the same as plant two.

I tried to take pictures of Plants 2 and 3 but I am not good with a digital camera. I have a good one with too many settings and can rarely get a good picture. (I used to have a 35mm SLR with BTL meter and did magazine quality photos, but do not understand the settings on the digital). Here are the best photos I could get.

I appreciate any help offered.


Plant1pic1.jpgPlant1pic2.jpgPlant1pic3.jpgPlant2pic1.jpgPlant2pic2.jpgPlant2pic3.jpg
 

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
Do you have a picture of when they "looked good"? Agree your pictures are pretty bad and difficult to interpret. Overall they look pretty spindly and stretched which means you probably have inadequate lighting to start.

Please describe your soil mix and feeding schedule with the ppm you are running. I see you have a humidifier on them, what is your rh now? What is your water source?

Besides your lighting, it feels like something else is fundamentally wrong. More info and better photos and this forum will help you get it sorted out.
 

StanlySpedowski

Active Member
Yes, something is definitely wrong...they do not look good. I dont think I've seen a plant that tall be so bare.

Did you remove any of the lower leaves or did some die and fall off?

How often do you water and with what nutes?
 

ganjanoob536

New Member
Yes, something is definitely wrong...they do not look good. I dont think I've seen a plant that tall be so bare.

Did you remove any of the lower leaves or did some die and fall off?

How often do you water and with what nutes?
Some fell off. IO have lately varied the waer schedule trying to see if over or under watering was at fault. It had no effect. I thought maybe heat stress was a factor because some leaves close to the lights looked like it, and experimented moving them away from it. No effect. I added a calcium mix to the water when the one looked like it was having calcium deficiency. No effect.

The soil for these three was the same mix (I believe 'ocean forest'?) I had used for the first two. I used the same nutrients (Fox Farm) Grow Big, Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom. The only difference I can recall was calcium added after the problems were already well advanced.
 

Merlin34

Well-Known Member
What are you running for lights? And how far away are the lights?

Sent from Northern Colorado.
 

ganjanoob536

New Member
Do you have a picture of when they "looked good"? Agree your pictures are pretty bad and difficult to interpret. Overall they look pretty spindly and stretched which means you probably have inadequate lighting to start.

Please describe your soil mix and feeding schedule with the ppm you are running. I see you have a humidifier on them, what is your rh now? What is your water source?

Besides your lighting, it feels like something else is fundamentally wrong. More info and better photos and this forum will help you get it sorted out.
Lighting is definitely an issue. The light I used for the first two fell from the ceiling early on, and I am still waiting for it to be repaired (wires shorted) and had to make do, using a series of grow bulbs in domes and worklights, and a small fluorescent. But they were doing great with it till the tenth week.

I WISH I had documented their progress and taken pictures, but I did not. I will on all future grows for sure. At least I learned that much. Humidity varies from 38% to 50% and my meter shows the soil moisture at the point where the red and green meet, slightly on the green side. I am not happy with my diagnostic tools. It seems like you guys are using more accurate equipment..
 

ganjanoob536

New Member
What are you running for lights? And how far away are the lights?

Sent from Northern Colorado.
For the first two and the first two weeks of these three, I had a large high intensity light, that fell from the ceiling (Luckily it fell on an angle and missed them) at week two, shorting out some of its wiring. I am still waiting on the local handyman to get it fixed. It was about 4 feet from the plants I think. (I am kind of new to the area and it took awhile to find someone. Since then I am using four lights - a 19" plant grow fluorescent, a domed clamp-on light with a75 watt Exo-terra 'intense basking spot', two auto worklights less the shroud - one with Exo-Terra 60 watt 'Daytime Lamp' bulb and the other with Fluker's 75 watt 'Daylight bulb'. They are all about 2 to 2.5 feet from the plants.

Temperature ranges from 74 to 80, measured at plant middle. Humidity from 38% to 50%.

.
 

StanlySpedowski

Active Member
For the first two and the first two weeks of these three, I had a large high intensity light, that fell from the ceiling (Luckily it fell on an angle and missed them) at week two, shorting out some of its wiring. I am still waiting on the local handyman to get it fixed. It was about 4 feet from the plants I think. (I am kind of new to the area and it took awhile to find someone. Since then I am using four lights - a 19" plant grow fluorescent, a domed clamp-on light with a75 watt Exo-terra 'intense basking spot', two auto worklights less the shroud - one with Exo-Terra 60 watt 'Daytime Lamp' bulb and the other with Fluker's 75 watt 'Daylight bulb'. They are all about 2 to 2.5 feet from the plants.

Temperature ranges from 74 to 80, measured at plant middle. Humidity from 38% to 50%.

.
Sounds like you have your lights way too far from your plants. Probably not your only problem, but try to get the light closer.

I have my HID lights around 1.5 - 2 ft usually. Fluorescents need to be closer.
 

ganjanoob536

New Member
Sounds like you have your lights way too far from your plants. Probably not your only problem, but try to get the light closer.

I have my HID lights around 1.5 - 2 ft usually. Fluorescents need to be closer.
I was afraid of getting them too hot and causing heat stress. Did not know they could be that close. I will move them closer immediately.
 

Dr Smith

Active Member
I was afraid of getting them too hot and causing heat stress. Did not know they could be that close. I will move them closer immediately.
Use the top of your hand as a heat guide for measuring heat.. There is a 'heat window' and you will feel that.
 

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
The lights you're describing don't feel like they're the ones you want to use...
Do some lighting research and you'll see a vast improvement.
 

Lo Budget

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid if you have to wait on your HID light much longer these plants won't be worth it. Can you light a fire under him, or somehow obtain a replacement? Fluorescent lighting is usually only a very few inches away from the plant whereas HID is several/many inches away. Do you have any deeper pots? If you get the current lighting closer or you get your HID back soon, I would re-pot and bury a lot of those stems; treat them like seedlings and go from there.
 

ganjanoob536

New Member
I was afraid of getting them too hot and causing heat stress. Did not know they could be that close. I will move them closer immediately.
Owe you a big THANKS for that advice. 24 hours later and already one of the 2 has improved at least 60% and is budding furiously well. On another happy note, my big light is finally repaired and I just put it into service again. YAY!
 

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
The general rule of thumb with HID's is, 'Hold your hand at the top of the plant, can you keep it there without feeling a burning on your hand? If so,you're good, if it burns you, it'll burn the plant, move it up.'
Good luck with the grow though man. Keep us all updated with as much info as you can provide. It will help us assess issues and conclude solutions.
 

ganjanoob536

New Member
Hey Jonnyquest,
Thanks for the really helpful advice because I was not bright enough to use Google and find like a million conflicting posts and fuck things up worse before finding this forum, where I really got some help, from everyone but you. Bad advice found on Google and misunderstood is what killed one of the three.

Originally Posted by jonnyquest

To the original poster, do some fucking research. You know who has the answer to all your stupid questions? Google.




 

ganjanoob536

New Member
Everyone, THANK YOU! The change in lighting and getting my original light back seems to have saved the day. Both plants are improving GREATLY and very quickly. The tip on heat measurement using the hand is a good one. I found almost NO heat from most of the lights I had. I thought they were putting out a lot of heat because without the fans the temp would be like 80. But I could hold my hand there for ten minutes and barely feel half the warmth of a Summer day. (Not so with the big light, of course) I could still use some advice on a good set of diagnostic meters, though. The Rapitest ones I am using did not seem to help a great deal through this, and the webpage on 'sick plants' talks about measuring all sorts of things I cannot with them.
 

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
Everyone, THANK YOU! The change in lighting and getting my original light back seems to have saved the day. Both plants are improving GREATLY and very quickly. The tip on heat measurement using the hand is a good one. I found almost NO heat from most of the lights I had. I thought they were putting out a lot of heat because without the fans the temp would be like 80. But I could hold my hand there for ten minutes and barely feel half the warmth of a Summer day. (Not so with the big light, of course) I could still use some advice on a good set of diagnostic meters, though. The Rapitest ones I am using did not seem to help a great deal through this, and the webpage on 'sick plants' talks about measuring all sorts of things I cannot with them.
Glad we could help... and ignore johny, there's always gonna be one asshole who doesn't want to answer questions on a forum designed to be for answering peoples questions.
 

Lo Budget

Well-Known Member
My advice was sound. You're confusing my post with my sig. Wow. Good Luck!

Hey Jonnyquest,
Thanks for the really helpful advice because I was not bright enough to use Google and find like a million conflicting posts and fuck things up worse before finding this forum, where I really got some help, from everyone but you. Bad advice found on Google and misunderstood is what killed one of the three.

Originally Posted by jonnyquest

To the original poster, do some fucking research. You know who has the answer to all your stupid questions? Google.




 
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