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- Thread starter SnotBoogie
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Well, since no one else apparently has the balls to respond to this, I guess I will.
Keeping this adult like, I think your assessment of MonkeyChief is wrong. I have known him for quite some time. He doesn't rep anything. He has nothing for sale.
He does have pretty strong opinions based on a lot of experience. I don't see a problem with that. You must not either as you seem to have the same.
Instead of assuming he's speaking about a "mystery factory", why don't you ask him what he is talking about? I think it would be a bit more respectful don't you?
And speaking about respect, I see absolutely no reason to bash someone as you have nor call them names. Even though I may disagree with you, I can still be adult like about it and we can have a pleasant and intellectual exchange of ideas.
Plenty of your statements are declaratory as well. Is it only okay when you do it?
You definitely get some of your information correct. I do believe that Black Star doesn't use the highest quality materials. There is plenty of room here to agree, disagree and debate.
As a matter of fact, I'm from the US but have purchased Chinese lights. They function - as in they work as advertised. Are they at the same level of some of the higher-end lights like Lush Lights or Apache Tech or even GEHL (with CREE's)? No, they are not. But at the time, with what I understood at the time and for the money I had available, it's what made the most sense to me. They work. Great quality of bud, but of course, the weight is lacking.
In other threads, I have seen MonkeyChief speak very highly of Apache Tech, Area 51 and other US companies. He also speaks highly of GEHL and LGLED (GEHL also offers CREE chips) - which are Chinese companies. One thing I can tell you for sure, he is not Chinese nor is he a salesperson for any Chinese company. At least none that I've ever seen. And even if he was, I've never seen him offer anything for sale - ever. So he would make for a pretty damn poor salesperson if that was the case.
You will be much more highly respected when you keep a civil tone and are respectful. Even if you disagree, there's no need to demonstrate a lack of class. Let's all have our say... let's all highly debate the issues... and let's all be respectful even when we disagree.
FranJan
Well-Known Member
Something different, yes. Why not. But also because there is more blue in the F1 and according to Illumitex it's the most efficient of all the Surexi line. Has a slightly higher output than the F3 too. Important cause they're running under spec at 450mA. It's considered better for germinating than the F3. And really PSU, they just might just have a warehouse of F3s so they'll say anything to get rid of themWhy didn't you go with the F3 spectra? The one that illumitex recommends............trying to be different froggy
. Plus I got my hands on some F3s and ripped apart some broken BS 240s to add to my grow tent, so I got my F3 thing going too. Got 2 made and they seem stable running at 580mA. Amazing how cool they run, especially with the light of the gods coming out of them like little H150s. I had one shooting down a hallway for testing and from 15 feet away the fucker blinded me. I'm tempted to turn off the active cooling but I'm gonna hold off on that for a while. I'm going to make 1 more but need some scratch for some Illumi WWs to add. Their whites must be the shit.
monkeychief
Well-Known Member
Monkey from the "hood" responding to ol al mighty enlighten one, lol. What a joke....
Hi kids my name is FranJan and I think it's time to have a quick lesson for all you newbs trying to sort out all this LED stuff So let's take a moment to dissect this Monkeychief's salesman's routine BS. It's good practice for you as good little LED consumers to remember to think with your heads and not just your wallets, which is what Monkeystains is after.
Uh yes Mr. Naming-Calling Adult, sir. Really shows your level of mentality. As for newbies. o...k.... Hail Yoda, the mastergrower here! I'm no salesman for no one as I'm not bought, nor want or need to be. I've been retired for over 20yrs. now at 28, legit selling my American land as an American my enlighten one. I retired selling my mortgage company and a 4 section Ramus Ranch in Soledad, California. If u have the resources run a title report on the Ramus Ranch and u will know my real name because I waas the guy who bought it in Dec. of 2001 so u will know I'm not full of bs and knowledgeable as u sir. By the way if you follow the news, they just discover black gold in my area. Gee, I guess I'll know what those oil arabs will feel like when I buy the new Aventador and chop the top off. By the way, do a wikicorp search on Streetwize Autowurks and u will know my name because I'm the founder and one selling it to Nick Rodrigues. I established the No. Cal market for Lorinser and AC Schnitzer and was the 4th largest distributor for them in the late 90's. Don't believe, contact Lorinser and verify my name and company as instructed.
Obviously one have to resort to calling names and degrading others out of sheer ignorance and groundless prejudice. Maan, whatever happened to evolution. I thought mankind should have figured it out by now but guess not.
Yes, I agree with you that "caveat emptor" has no ethnic preference. I'm sure there's plenty of good ol' fellow americans that's more than willing to jack u of your hard-earned pecuniam. Sorry wrong again, buddy. I don't speak mandarin but speak latin after 4yrs of it. "Quid agis hodie?" Do u even know what that means. Oh, but sorry, I'm just a salesman ptching cheap chinese panels. If you had any kind of intelligence, you will notice I recommended both US and chinese panels and the second, you should not make any assumptions before verification my enlighten one. This is why I'm retired and you're still slaving sir.
First off Monkeythief's complete lack of proper English grammar, or even hood-speak ftm, is a sure sign you are entering a world of soulless, remorseless Chinese salespeople, (Shields UP!), who are basically doing the wishes of their communist overlords. And that wish is to separate Americans and Europeans from their money and put it into Chinese banks. There is no BBB in China that's gonna save you from these scheisters. They don't give a fuck about you. Only your money. Also kids, Chinese made diodes cannot compete with American made diodes atm. It's not even close. China puts together people's designs and ideas. Their ideas tend to be pedestrian, stolen and/or perverted by their detestable, corrupt politicians, poor education and their soulless ideology.
Sorry for my grammar as I don't take this as serious as u and am also highly medicated since I have noting to do and pains from my old body wrecking activities like racing stand-up jet skis professsionally. Besides, I think u should worry bout how much substance your misguided opinions because opinions are like an anus, everyone has one and it stinks if it's unfounded bs. Gee, I don't think too many "chinese" stand up jet ski racers I know of... I think the people who should shut up is you, buddy, as u attacking me on groundless terms is retarded, especially I'm not even chinese Mr. Know it All".
It's obvious that u lack the sophistication of knowing, unfortunately as an american, I have to admit when they got u beat so u have to strategically reposition yourself to adapt and profit from the changing market. Are u even aware that they have more than a trillion of our dollars and is our largest creditor. Without them, we're screwed and you Iphones will be $1200. I saw this coming and cashed in on their cash since they love american real estate. I love the chinese, they helped me retired and help us be more competitive in the marketplace. Our main advantage was intellectual properties before because we had the most money. Guess what, bud, time's changed and those uneducted chinese are helping us pay our bills Mr. Ill-informed. Corrupt polititians? WHere the hell have u been bud? U telling me our politicians are any better??? Why don't u do a little bit of homework and stop believing this lie that we're still in our hay days. We're in debt over our heads and they have 3.8trillion dollars of the world's money. Money buys everything, including the best talents and minds. Have u ever even been to china lately? I don't think they're running around in ricksaws anymore but are now the world's largest market for most of the top luxury makes. Wake up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOwZwkhFemQ
We did what the Romans did. We belcame too rich and powerful and have spent the last 60yrs. after WWII enjoying our success and partied while the chinese and the rest of the world caught up and about to pass us. History will always repeat itself. This kind od backward thinking of undersestimating your opponent is precisely why we fell behind, sir. This is why you're still slaving and I'm enjoying the company of young companion half my age. lol. Gee, one day if I work really hard and save all my money I'll be as prominent as you, buddy.
Let's sample some statements now:
"A51 A190's Very well american-made panels that offer great price-performance if u want to be patriotic. U can get the same performance going factory direct from china for less than half with Crees if u wish but not needed"
I mean what the fuck is he talking about? No direct panel from some mystery factory is going to compete with an A51 watt for watt. A51 uses Cree diodes because of their efficacy. Which means you don't have to use as many watts to get the light out, unlike the majority of Chinese made diodes. This is why direct panels have high wattage. They need to draw more power in order to compete with more efficient offerings from CREE or OSRAM or Illumitex, or even anything that comes out of The Free Republic of Taiwan. (Oooooo sick burn, Monkeybreath). When a China direct salesperson touts their wattage draw, it's to use the old American "bigger is better ideology" and to confuse draw and radiometric output. This is a Red Herring and the fact is, he's telling you his LEDs suck and need to burn more energy to compete.
Let me start with this not for my ego sake but for reference only. My father owned and operated a 1000hectre sugar plantation and also a 243acre vineyard/orchard in Reedley, California so I've been around the ag business all my life. I've been growing our girls for more thn 20yrs. and have purchased more than 30 panels in the last 6yrs. If u think I'm bs'ing, ask Corey from Blackdog bout his very first customer back in August 2010 when he parted with his ex-partner and I was petition from his partner his dispute on my deal. I've own HGL, GHL Spectras, Blackdog, and Apache. If anyone knows me, I have nothing but respect and praise for Apache since they're the NASA insiders. No, I'm not pitching any chinese or particular make, but only what works and try to pass on my actual experience and data to others and let them do as they wish with the info.
No, what the copulating are u talkin bout and smokin cause I would love to get that strain myself.
Again, your ignorance amazes me. Most of leds are not made by Taiwan, but over 90% of leds are main-in-china including all of the Taiwanese led companies and american. Get over it, bud. THe chinese makes everything..... FYI, most of the factory direct chinese panels offer Crees and Osram chips as an option at $1 more per 3w chip. There's a lot of panels that will kick the crap out of a good A51 panel for a lot less. There's no difference if Cree chips are installed by a chinese or us workers, so please enlighten me if there's any perceivable difference. Again, your ignorance of this market precedes you, sir.Do your homework and gain a little more experience before making a complewte idiot out of yourself.
China direct salesperson touts their wattage draw, it's to use the old American "bigger is better ideology" and to confuse draw and radiometric output. This is a Red Herring and the fact is, he's telling you his LEDs suck and need to burn more energy to compete.
Let me take a bong rip before answering this classic line. Cough..cough...
So you're saying that we should take the american companies rated wattage instead of worrying bout the actual wattage since these us based companies wont screw u. Boy you are the ideal poster child for these us based rip-offs. When you trying to grow a light-intensive plant as ours power and intensity is everything as sunlight is constant at any distance and you're gonna try to grow them with 65w and expect them to reach full genetic potential. There's no difference, genius, if it's amercian or chinese made, if u run the same amount of current thru the same Cree chip will produce the same amount of performance. I'l like to see the face on the HID and commercial when u tell them to hang up a bunch of 65w and veg. with 38w.
I guess our beloved fellow american companies are not willing and for god sake, will never rip u off charging 3-4x for the same exact panels the us based companies import from the very same companies I mentioned. Obviously u haven't been in this seen long enough and are still very niave individual. I think the bad breath here is the one who's talking as the one calling names are the ones usually the one with issues.
"For that price u can even go with a economical Blackstar 240 that will give u 2x the wattage or better yet one of those standard 100x3w factory direct panels that will give u over 200w actual wattage."
You must remember kiddies wattage for panels is their total draw and has ALMOST NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ABILITY OF A PANEL TO GROW WEED. LEDS ARE NOT VACUUM TUBES! Chinese diodes suck monkey balls compared to actual CREE LEDs. And no folks, no 130 watt Blackstar 240 is going to outgrow a Hans 65 watt panel. Hans panels use some of the best diodes available. BS use whatever diodes that some drunk salesman can sell to another drunk salesman this quarter. Blackstars are inefficient POS compared to A51 or Hans. Do they grow weed, yes they do. I've owned some. Do they do it well or cheaply, no they don't. You pay your electrical company the money you're saving up front when you buy direct. So in the long run, direct costs much more.
Do u realize how absurd to state that the total actual wattage does not grow weed, so I guess we should rely on the rated or stated wattage to grow weed. It seems that u will shoot down anything that u don't agree with even though they are an american company based in NY. Funny how prejudice usually stem from ignorance. If you check the web, there's plenty of documented rsults that they work as to why they're the top selling brand, poeriod. Yes, they're not the best of quality, but they work and most important, affordable unlike all of the other us based rip-offs. Don't know bout u, bud, but most people after investing the same amount of time and resources would like to yield as much as possible. I don't think anyone will be bragging what brand and where it's made because the end of the day, the only thing that matters is how much did u get from whatever you're using.
Intensity is everything. Without it, nothing matters because it determines the rate of photosythesis and growth. Take sunlight, the benchmark of all grow light source in terms of spectrum and intensity and what happens to the lower growth and buds that do not get direct light contact... You end up with airy, popcorn, cottonballs similar to the floro's grown meds and now u're gonna try to grow them with 65w.
"The Crees advantage is purely academic because in real life application, it's not even considering."
Statements like this make no sense. It's just declaratory. It provides no proof and is just a smokescreen to help confuse you. Can you find more of his poor use of logic and obvious nationalism? Go ahead it's good practice in rooting out people like this.
And your statements makes more sense and not declaratory. What the hell do I have to gain blowing smoke up people's rear end to confuse them?? If you would take enough time before making these crazy attacks, as I've recommended and praised both US and chinese factory directs as long as merits justifies. Are u a retard, I'm not chinese so stop making assinine remarks making a fool out of yourself, bud. Lighten up, we don't have to behave like a bunch of savages attacking each other. THe idea here is to share our knoweldge and experiences to help ech other avoid bs rip-offs and increase our knowlege regarding the subject. I simply made a statement of observation and not offended anyone to being attacked in this manner.
So what have we learned kiddies? Please think critically. Do not believe the one sided arguments of salespeople. This person is some kind of Pro-China shill and is not here to help you. He/They are here to confuse you and you must be aware that in the LED world shills like this exist all over RIU.
I think the one condused is you, sir. Again, your ignorance preceds you as I'm not no salesperson trying to pitch anything but simply making actual hands-on experience and observations. As with any info, I could be wrong at times but will have the open-minded attitude to verify and correct if necessary.
I'll leave you with this. If a car is as good as a Lamborghini, you don't sell it for 30 or 40 % less. Maybe 10%, but not 30 or 40% less. Only an idiot would do that and you don't want to buy something from some idiot. Right?
First off. Have u ever even bought a Lambo? I had a Diablo VT bak in 97-98, so again, stop making groundless remarks that will only reveal your capabilities. Yeah, give the chinewse enough time and they'll probably by Lambo. Hell, it's a global economy now as I used to own a Diamler-Chrysler. Wanna talk prejudice... Try running that by an american soldier in europe in WWII. No, only an idiot would listen to an idiot making misguided, groundless attacks before even making the effort to verify before shooting a bunch of duds, bud.
Hi kids my name is FranJan and I think it's time to have a quick lesson for all you newbs trying to sort out all this LED stuff So let's take a moment to dissect this Monkeychief's salesman's routine BS. It's good practice for you as good little LED consumers to remember to think with your heads and not just your wallets, which is what Monkeystains is after.
Uh yes Mr. Naming-Calling Adult, sir. Really shows your level of mentality. As for newbies. o...k.... Hail Yoda, the mastergrower here! I'm no salesman for no one as I'm not bought, nor want or need to be. I've been retired for over 20yrs. now at 28, legit selling my American land as an American my enlighten one. I retired selling my mortgage company and a 4 section Ramus Ranch in Soledad, California. If u have the resources run a title report on the Ramus Ranch and u will know my real name because I waas the guy who bought it in Dec. of 2001 so u will know I'm not full of bs and knowledgeable as u sir. By the way if you follow the news, they just discover black gold in my area. Gee, I guess I'll know what those oil arabs will feel like when I buy the new Aventador and chop the top off. By the way, do a wikicorp search on Streetwize Autowurks and u will know my name because I'm the founder and one selling it to Nick Rodrigues. I established the No. Cal market for Lorinser and AC Schnitzer and was the 4th largest distributor for them in the late 90's. Don't believe, contact Lorinser and verify my name and company as instructed.
Obviously one have to resort to calling names and degrading others out of sheer ignorance and groundless prejudice. Maan, whatever happened to evolution. I thought mankind should have figured it out by now but guess not.
Yes, I agree with you that "caveat emptor" has no ethnic preference. I'm sure there's plenty of good ol' fellow americans that's more than willing to jack u of your hard-earned pecuniam. Sorry wrong again, buddy. I don't speak mandarin but speak latin after 4yrs of it. "Quid agis hodie?" Do u even know what that means. Oh, but sorry, I'm just a salesman ptching cheap chinese panels. If you had any kind of intelligence, you will notice I recommended both US and chinese panels and the second, you should not make any assumptions before verification my enlighten one. This is why I'm retired and you're still slaving sir.
First off Monkeythief's complete lack of proper English grammar, or even hood-speak ftm, is a sure sign you are entering a world of soulless, remorseless Chinese salespeople, (Shields UP!), who are basically doing the wishes of their communist overlords. And that wish is to separate Americans and Europeans from their money and put it into Chinese banks. There is no BBB in China that's gonna save you from these scheisters. They don't give a fuck about you. Only your money. Also kids, Chinese made diodes cannot compete with American made diodes atm. It's not even close. China puts together people's designs and ideas. Their ideas tend to be pedestrian, stolen and/or perverted by their detestable, corrupt politicians, poor education and their soulless ideology.
Sorry for my grammar as I don't take this as serious as u and am also highly medicated since I have noting to do and pains from my old body wrecking activities like racing stand-up jet skis professsionally. Besides, I think u should worry bout how much substance your misguided opinions because opinions are like an anus, everyone has one and it stinks if it's unfounded bs. Gee, I don't think too many "chinese" stand up jet ski racers I know of... I think the people who should shut up is you, buddy, as u attacking me on groundless terms is retarded, especially I'm not even chinese Mr. Know it All".
It's obvious that u lack the sophistication of knowing, unfortunately as an american, I have to admit when they got u beat so u have to strategically reposition yourself to adapt and profit from the changing market. Are u even aware that they have more than a trillion of our dollars and is our largest creditor. Without them, we're screwed and you Iphones will be $1200. I saw this coming and cashed in on their cash since they love american real estate. I love the chinese, they helped me retired and help us be more competitive in the marketplace. Our main advantage was intellectual properties before because we had the most money. Guess what, bud, time's changed and those uneducted chinese are helping us pay our bills Mr. Ill-informed. Corrupt polititians? WHere the hell have u been bud? U telling me our politicians are any better??? Why don't u do a little bit of homework and stop believing this lie that we're still in our hay days. We're in debt over our heads and they have 3.8trillion dollars of the world's money. Money buys everything, including the best talents and minds. Have u ever even been to china lately? I don't think they're running around in ricksaws anymore but are now the world's largest market for most of the top luxury makes. Wake up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOwZwkhFemQ
We did what the Romans did. We belcame too rich and powerful and have spent the last 60yrs. after WWII enjoying our success and partied while the chinese and the rest of the world caught up and about to pass us. History will always repeat itself. This kind od backward thinking of undersestimating your opponent is precisely why we fell behind, sir. This is why you're still slaving and I'm enjoying the company of young companion half my age. lol. Gee, one day if I work really hard and save all my money I'll be as prominent as you, buddy.
Let's sample some statements now:
"A51 A190's Very well american-made panels that offer great price-performance if u want to be patriotic. U can get the same performance going factory direct from china for less than half with Crees if u wish but not needed"
I mean what the fuck is he talking about? No direct panel from some mystery factory is going to compete with an A51 watt for watt. A51 uses Cree diodes because of their efficacy. Which means you don't have to use as many watts to get the light out, unlike the majority of Chinese made diodes. This is why direct panels have high wattage. They need to draw more power in order to compete with more efficient offerings from CREE or OSRAM or Illumitex, or even anything that comes out of The Free Republic of Taiwan. (Oooooo sick burn, Monkeybreath). When a China direct salesperson touts their wattage draw, it's to use the old American "bigger is better ideology" and to confuse draw and radiometric output. This is a Red Herring and the fact is, he's telling you his LEDs suck and need to burn more energy to compete.
Let me start with this not for my ego sake but for reference only. My father owned and operated a 1000hectre sugar plantation and also a 243acre vineyard/orchard in Reedley, California so I've been around the ag business all my life. I've been growing our girls for more thn 20yrs. and have purchased more than 30 panels in the last 6yrs. If u think I'm bs'ing, ask Corey from Blackdog bout his very first customer back in August 2010 when he parted with his ex-partner and I was petition from his partner his dispute on my deal. I've own HGL, GHL Spectras, Blackdog, and Apache. If anyone knows me, I have nothing but respect and praise for Apache since they're the NASA insiders. No, I'm not pitching any chinese or particular make, but only what works and try to pass on my actual experience and data to others and let them do as they wish with the info.
No, what the copulating are u talkin bout and smokin cause I would love to get that strain myself.
Again, your ignorance amazes me. Most of leds are not made by Taiwan, but over 90% of leds are main-in-china including all of the Taiwanese led companies and american. Get over it, bud. THe chinese makes everything..... FYI, most of the factory direct chinese panels offer Crees and Osram chips as an option at $1 more per 3w chip. There's a lot of panels that will kick the crap out of a good A51 panel for a lot less. There's no difference if Cree chips are installed by a chinese or us workers, so please enlighten me if there's any perceivable difference. Again, your ignorance of this market precedes you, sir.Do your homework and gain a little more experience before making a complewte idiot out of yourself.
China direct salesperson touts their wattage draw, it's to use the old American "bigger is better ideology" and to confuse draw and radiometric output. This is a Red Herring and the fact is, he's telling you his LEDs suck and need to burn more energy to compete.
Let me take a bong rip before answering this classic line. Cough..cough...
So you're saying that we should take the american companies rated wattage instead of worrying bout the actual wattage since these us based companies wont screw u. Boy you are the ideal poster child for these us based rip-offs. When you trying to grow a light-intensive plant as ours power and intensity is everything as sunlight is constant at any distance and you're gonna try to grow them with 65w and expect them to reach full genetic potential. There's no difference, genius, if it's amercian or chinese made, if u run the same amount of current thru the same Cree chip will produce the same amount of performance. I'l like to see the face on the HID and commercial when u tell them to hang up a bunch of 65w and veg. with 38w.
I guess our beloved fellow american companies are not willing and for god sake, will never rip u off charging 3-4x for the same exact panels the us based companies import from the very same companies I mentioned. Obviously u haven't been in this seen long enough and are still very niave individual. I think the bad breath here is the one who's talking as the one calling names are the ones usually the one with issues.
"For that price u can even go with a economical Blackstar 240 that will give u 2x the wattage or better yet one of those standard 100x3w factory direct panels that will give u over 200w actual wattage."
You must remember kiddies wattage for panels is their total draw and has ALMOST NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ABILITY OF A PANEL TO GROW WEED. LEDS ARE NOT VACUUM TUBES! Chinese diodes suck monkey balls compared to actual CREE LEDs. And no folks, no 130 watt Blackstar 240 is going to outgrow a Hans 65 watt panel. Hans panels use some of the best diodes available. BS use whatever diodes that some drunk salesman can sell to another drunk salesman this quarter. Blackstars are inefficient POS compared to A51 or Hans. Do they grow weed, yes they do. I've owned some. Do they do it well or cheaply, no they don't. You pay your electrical company the money you're saving up front when you buy direct. So in the long run, direct costs much more.
Do u realize how absurd to state that the total actual wattage does not grow weed, so I guess we should rely on the rated or stated wattage to grow weed. It seems that u will shoot down anything that u don't agree with even though they are an american company based in NY. Funny how prejudice usually stem from ignorance. If you check the web, there's plenty of documented rsults that they work as to why they're the top selling brand, poeriod. Yes, they're not the best of quality, but they work and most important, affordable unlike all of the other us based rip-offs. Don't know bout u, bud, but most people after investing the same amount of time and resources would like to yield as much as possible. I don't think anyone will be bragging what brand and where it's made because the end of the day, the only thing that matters is how much did u get from whatever you're using.
Intensity is everything. Without it, nothing matters because it determines the rate of photosythesis and growth. Take sunlight, the benchmark of all grow light source in terms of spectrum and intensity and what happens to the lower growth and buds that do not get direct light contact... You end up with airy, popcorn, cottonballs similar to the floro's grown meds and now u're gonna try to grow them with 65w.
"The Crees advantage is purely academic because in real life application, it's not even considering."
Statements like this make no sense. It's just declaratory. It provides no proof and is just a smokescreen to help confuse you. Can you find more of his poor use of logic and obvious nationalism? Go ahead it's good practice in rooting out people like this.
And your statements makes more sense and not declaratory. What the hell do I have to gain blowing smoke up people's rear end to confuse them?? If you would take enough time before making these crazy attacks, as I've recommended and praised both US and chinese factory directs as long as merits justifies. Are u a retard, I'm not chinese so stop making assinine remarks making a fool out of yourself, bud. Lighten up, we don't have to behave like a bunch of savages attacking each other. THe idea here is to share our knoweldge and experiences to help ech other avoid bs rip-offs and increase our knowlege regarding the subject. I simply made a statement of observation and not offended anyone to being attacked in this manner.
So what have we learned kiddies? Please think critically. Do not believe the one sided arguments of salespeople. This person is some kind of Pro-China shill and is not here to help you. He/They are here to confuse you and you must be aware that in the LED world shills like this exist all over RIU.
I think the one condused is you, sir. Again, your ignorance preceds you as I'm not no salesperson trying to pitch anything but simply making actual hands-on experience and observations. As with any info, I could be wrong at times but will have the open-minded attitude to verify and correct if necessary.
I'll leave you with this. If a car is as good as a Lamborghini, you don't sell it for 30 or 40 % less. Maybe 10%, but not 30 or 40% less. Only an idiot would do that and you don't want to buy something from some idiot. Right?
First off. Have u ever even bought a Lambo? I had a Diablo VT bak in 97-98, so again, stop making groundless remarks that will only reveal your capabilities. Yeah, give the chinewse enough time and they'll probably by Lambo. Hell, it's a global economy now as I used to own a Diamler-Chrysler. Wanna talk prejudice... Try running that by an american soldier in europe in WWII. No, only an idiot would listen to an idiot making misguided, groundless attacks before even making the effort to verify before shooting a bunch of duds, bud.
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
@Monkey
Do you know what LED binning is?
Let me tell you something about buying LEDs from China. There is no binning available. They give you whatever they have or can get.
Without binning, it's always a gamble, you never know what you're going to get, and there are no consistencies from 1 purchase to the next.
Companies like A51, as well as Cali Lightworks, Lumigrow, Apache, Bonsai Hero, they source their LEDs from more reliable sources than China direct. They know what bin they're getting and they have total consistency from purchase to purchase.
No name LEDs coming from China typically run at inefficiencies of 200mW per 1w of power given to them, sometimes less, but on average, 200mW is the most you'll usually see coming out of China.
And any "Cree" coming from China is either a counterfeit, or is a low bin. If you ask the Chinese seller what the bin is, guaranteed they'll say something along the lines of "what is bin?".
Real genuine Crees are tons more efficient than 200mW per 1w given to them, depending on which LED, it can be as much as triple that amount.
Real genuine Crees cost more than $1 over the Chinese LEDs like you said, especially if they're 5w like the A51s. There's a reason A51s, Cali Lightworks, Apaches, etc... cost more, because they cost more to build.
Some people are more comfortable paying for the wattage draw of a panel regardless of output. Some people, typically the type that shop at A51, Cali and Apache care more about the output total of the lamp.
Do you know what LED binning is?
Let me tell you something about buying LEDs from China. There is no binning available. They give you whatever they have or can get.
Without binning, it's always a gamble, you never know what you're going to get, and there are no consistencies from 1 purchase to the next.
Companies like A51, as well as Cali Lightworks, Lumigrow, Apache, Bonsai Hero, they source their LEDs from more reliable sources than China direct. They know what bin they're getting and they have total consistency from purchase to purchase.
No name LEDs coming from China typically run at inefficiencies of 200mW per 1w of power given to them, sometimes less, but on average, 200mW is the most you'll usually see coming out of China.
And any "Cree" coming from China is either a counterfeit, or is a low bin. If you ask the Chinese seller what the bin is, guaranteed they'll say something along the lines of "what is bin?".
Real genuine Crees are tons more efficient than 200mW per 1w given to them, depending on which LED, it can be as much as triple that amount.
Real genuine Crees cost more than $1 over the Chinese LEDs like you said, especially if they're 5w like the A51s. There's a reason A51s, Cali Lightworks, Apaches, etc... cost more, because they cost more to build.
Some people are more comfortable paying for the wattage draw of a panel regardless of output. Some people, typically the type that shop at A51, Cali and Apache care more about the output total of the lamp.
monkeychief
Well-Known Member
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
Yes I have. I have been to the Cidly factory, Eshine factory and the Evergrow factory.
I've talked with all 3 places about their selection of chips and binning and parts numbers and encapsulation process. Because what I have seen 1st hand, I would never trust a Chinese factory to use their in-house selection of encapsulated diodes. I would much rather buy my diodes from Digikey or Mouser, this way I know the bin, the exact nanometer or kelvin, and the fact it is a genuine (insert name brand here), not some Chinese knockoff.
If I were just a customer that wanted to buy 1 or 2 panels, but otherwise not sell them to others in mass amounts, Evergrow panels like the Nova and Nova II are okay Chinese lights, just don't expect consistency between that weeks chips and last weeks or next weeks chips. They change all the time, they buy whatever they can get within certain parameters that they set for themselves, and buy accordingly. 1 week they may be using Epiled 620nm that has an efficiency of 175mW @ 350mA, the following week they may have an Epistar 628nm that has an efficiency of 125mW @ 350mA. Now, when a customer goes to buy a lamp with "630nm", you could get either, and they'll tell you it's the same. Same goes for their white LEDs, efficiency and kelvins will vary a lot.
Factories like Evergrow, Cidly, Eshine, Bysen, etc... They make their own diodes, they have the machines to encapsulate everything on-site. That is why every diode looks identical coming from China, they have a standard generic encapsulation machine. They order the chips from Epistar, Epiled and occasionally from Bridgelux and encapsulate the chips into their LED packaging.
I've talked with all 3 places about their selection of chips and binning and parts numbers and encapsulation process. Because what I have seen 1st hand, I would never trust a Chinese factory to use their in-house selection of encapsulated diodes. I would much rather buy my diodes from Digikey or Mouser, this way I know the bin, the exact nanometer or kelvin, and the fact it is a genuine (insert name brand here), not some Chinese knockoff.
If I were just a customer that wanted to buy 1 or 2 panels, but otherwise not sell them to others in mass amounts, Evergrow panels like the Nova and Nova II are okay Chinese lights, just don't expect consistency between that weeks chips and last weeks or next weeks chips. They change all the time, they buy whatever they can get within certain parameters that they set for themselves, and buy accordingly. 1 week they may be using Epiled 620nm that has an efficiency of 175mW @ 350mA, the following week they may have an Epistar 628nm that has an efficiency of 125mW @ 350mA. Now, when a customer goes to buy a lamp with "630nm", you could get either, and they'll tell you it's the same. Same goes for their white LEDs, efficiency and kelvins will vary a lot.
Factories like Evergrow, Cidly, Eshine, Bysen, etc... They make their own diodes, they have the machines to encapsulate everything on-site. That is why every diode looks identical coming from China, they have a standard generic encapsulation machine. They order the chips from Epistar, Epiled and occasionally from Bridgelux and encapsulate the chips into their LED packaging.
monkeychief
Well-Known Member
Point noted but as I also stated, greed has no ethnic preferences so we're still at the mercy of their integrity. But if this is true then we must discredit also us brands like Advanced, BD's and others because they are from the same factories. The factories who deal with brand names who require top bins Crees and Osrams like Advanced, BD's, and HGL must also be fakes? This is why it takes trials and errors to find out the good ones and those are the ones that I recommended. I only recommended GEHL and LG for the chinese factories. I've had bad experience with 1 chinese and 1 us brand so go figure. Regarding the actual efficiency difference between the different bins is true but that's why u have to measure the actual par readings and who in the hell has an extra spectrometer sitting around to see how much actual par you're getting cause eye-balling it ain't gonna do it..
monkeychief
Well-Known Member
Some people are more comfortable paying for the wattage draw of a panel regardless of output. Some people, typically the type that shop at A51, Cali and Apache care more about the output total of the lamp.
I totally understand and respect this thinking along with their direction towards the more quality vs. pricing. I personally can't tell the difference my supposed Crees in My HGL Penetrators vs. the chinese regarding performance and reliability. But then again, I'm not out there with a par meter seeing if there's a drop in my efficiency. As far as visible difference in growth. I see none. The Apache's a different story cause their secondary lens are tricked. but it was also extremely expensive for it's size. But then again a C6 will whip a lot of high-dollar europeans top names but it's not for everyone and vice-versa.
I totally understand and respect this thinking along with their direction towards the more quality vs. pricing. I personally can't tell the difference my supposed Crees in My HGL Penetrators vs. the chinese regarding performance and reliability. But then again, I'm not out there with a par meter seeing if there's a drop in my efficiency. As far as visible difference in growth. I see none. The Apache's a different story cause their secondary lens are tricked. but it was also extremely expensive for it's size. But then again a C6 will whip a lot of high-dollar europeans top names but it's not for everyone and vice-versa.
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
Both A51 and Advanced (the real Advanced) get stuff made at Evergrow. Everything from A51's current catalog is from Evergrow, and the Advanced XML lights are from there as well.
I am not 100% positive how Advanced's manufacturing process is and where all their parts come from, but I do know how A51's is. Evergrow manufactures everything except for the circuit boards and LEDs, those are bought from Digikey and Mouser, then soldered and assembled in Dale City, VA. Everything that Evergrow does manufacture, are all done to A51's standard and selection of parts.
I would think Advanced's 10w Crees are ordered in a similar fashion. It doesn't really matter where it's soldered, USA or China, it's the quality control that is in place after to make sure it's been done proper. I would also think that the parts that are in Advanced's lights are not the same parts that are found in the Nova and Nova II. I know the A51 does not share parts with the Nova or Nova II.
It'd be nice if spectroradiometeres are cheap enough so more people can own them, mine was almost $5000.
I am not 100% positive how Advanced's manufacturing process is and where all their parts come from, but I do know how A51's is. Evergrow manufactures everything except for the circuit boards and LEDs, those are bought from Digikey and Mouser, then soldered and assembled in Dale City, VA. Everything that Evergrow does manufacture, are all done to A51's standard and selection of parts.
I would think Advanced's 10w Crees are ordered in a similar fashion. It doesn't really matter where it's soldered, USA or China, it's the quality control that is in place after to make sure it's been done proper. I would also think that the parts that are in Advanced's lights are not the same parts that are found in the Nova and Nova II. I know the A51 does not share parts with the Nova or Nova II.
It'd be nice if spectroradiometeres are cheap enough so more people can own them, mine was almost $5000.
HGL never claimed to use Cree LEDs. I would expect HGL to preform close to what the Chinese lights do as well.
monkeychief
Well-Known Member
I salute you, sir. You've been around. I used to spend a lot of time in "crazy town" Shenzhen running my building construction and granite company. Next time u go there try Queen's Spa/Resort, awesome. I got suspicious on the A51's being us made cause they posted on their website last december bout some of the panels will be coming from HK, which is the shipping hub for Shenzhen. hmmm. That's why they can offer competitive pricing. The chinese can make anything and you're dead on regarding QC. I just think it's crazy for us to think the chinese are still like in the 70's during the Mao days. They threw a 40 billion dollar olympic statement for the world to see. Again, it's nice to converse with someone who understands. My respect, sir.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
This is early for me on a sundaySomething different, yes. Why not. But also because there is more blue in the F1 and according to Illumitex it's the most efficient of all the Surexi line. Has a slightly higher output than the F3 too. Important cause they're running under spec at 450mA. It's considered better for germinating than the F3. And really PSU, they just might just have a warehouse of F3s so they'll say anything to get rid of them
.....lol........anyways, have you done a full run to harvest with these surexi modules???????????Someone needs to get a monkey off his back!ha, oh yeah the chinese have great quality control now
................need to buy their "fancy" welding masks PRONTO!!!
FranJan
Well-Known Member
^^^Nope, the Surexis are being used as secondary lighting for this period. Shooting those 50 degree beams at about 45 degrees straight into the plants. Growth and healthiness are up and I know about the growth cause I'm constantly burning leaves on my CREE bulbs and plants are growing right into the Surexis so I'm constantly moving panels now, except for the VIPAR, (lumen deprecation is probably becoming a factor). Plus they look a lot better, but that can also be from the removal of the BS's that the were producing major heat towards the end.
And a quick shout out to Eraserehead for cluing me in as to why that round gull-wing LED design is so predominant in budget panels and why I can't find that form factor on diodes that I would want to upgrade the VIPAR to. Avago makes some that probably would fit but beam angles are huge and may not be worth adding lenses to. Illumitex's latest diodes might fit, but that can get expensive fast and I'm not a fan of COBs in the flowering department, (yet), especially with 16 CREE bulbs running. That's why I'm leaning on buying a panel for my main light. Maybe I'll buy direct this time. Directly from A51, Apache, Hans........
Dude that picture's totally racist. LOL
And a quick shout out to Eraserehead for cluing me in as to why that round gull-wing LED design is so predominant in budget panels and why I can't find that form factor on diodes that I would want to upgrade the VIPAR to. Avago makes some that probably would fit but beam angles are huge and may not be worth adding lenses to. Illumitex's latest diodes might fit, but that can get expensive fast and I'm not a fan of COBs in the flowering department, (yet), especially with 16 CREE bulbs running. That's why I'm leaning on buying a panel for my main light. Maybe I'll buy direct this time. Directly from A51, Apache, Hans........
Dude that picture's totally racist. LOL
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Save up and BUY THIS http://www.illumitex.com/illumitex-led-products/neosol-ds/ beastly panel.............their GUARANTEEING a 15% yield increase over a 1000w hps.....lol, don't think that's the greatest idea
FranJan
Well-Known Member
Yeah I saw the DS. That is crazy guaranteeing shit, but they'll probably just march 10 PHds into a courtroom in west Texas and prove you didn't know what you were doing anyway. Case DISMISSED!!!!
Now imagine taking an Apache 600 and surrounding your grow with 3 or 4 of those, thenn.....Uhhhhhh uh uh hhhh...OMG...Ahhhhhhhhhh. Ooooops, just made a mess of my keyboard.
Now imagine taking an Apache 600 and surrounding your grow with 3 or 4 of those, thenn.....Uhhhhhh uh uh hhhh...OMG...Ahhhhhhhhhh. Ooooops, just made a mess of my keyboard.
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