Real reason Democrats want to raise minimum wage.

[AlecTheGardener]

My dad is collecting on his full union retirement and earning a paycheck working at the same company he retired from. They let you work a certain amount of hours a year and still collect retirement. He can't complain. How many lost their entire employer funded retirement in 2008

My father also had his accounts take a dive.

It seems clear to me that the quality of life for union tradesmen ends up being higher then non-union ultimately.

Unions appear to have a few extra helping hands and provides for a gentle landing if investments receive no returns or indeed crash. A contingency plan in retirement.

 

[BigNBushy]

My father was a non-union finish carpenter then a superintendent, then a project manager for a medium commercial construction company. He had so much experience and time in his trade and position that his employer finally realized they could hire four boys out of school for his yearly salary.

He was given notice and fired. He now lives on what savings he flooded into his retirement accounts during his employment. Subsisting now on these funds, barely. Recent health issues prevent him from being fully able to work in this field any longer.

My friends father was a union sheet metal worker. He held off on retiring because he loved his trade so much. When he finally retired he was receiving far more money from his accounts then when he was actively working. This man now spends all his time with his grandchildren worry free about money.

Both of the men in these stories share a very hard working ethic and strive for perfection and greater education. Great at their trades. My father was able to be thrown away because he was unprotected. The other father's union affiliation protected him.

I often wonder if my own father made the right decision staying non-union. Truly. A thinker.
*edit*spelling

Your father made one poor decision.

It sounds like he was making a fairly good living.

It doesn't sound like he was saving anywhere near the recommended 15% for retirement.

It also sounds like he failed to act responsible and get himself disability insurance.

I'm sorry for the misfortune of your father.

The fact that he could so easily be replaced by a couple of green horns doesn't mesh well with your story about how experienced and awesome he was.

If he was in reality as he is in your esteem, and I'm not saying he isn't, he could have found work easily in his own experience. That savings could have afforded him to become a consultant, or start his own business.

Or maybe he would have had enough to purchase an income annuity.

Poor decisions abound.

 

[heckler73]

My father also had his accounts take a dive.

It seems clear to me that the quality of life for union tradesmen ends up being higher then non-union ultimately.

Unions appear to have a few extra helping hands and provides for a gentle landing if investments receive no returns or indeed crash. A contingency plan in retirement.

It's called a Strike Fund. One of the small unions I was in had a 7 figure strike fund at their disposal. Yes, it was in a managed account (mostly fixed assets). Pension funds are for gambling, apparently.

 

[Hazydat620]

Your father made one poor decision.

It sounds like he was making a fairly good living.

It doesn't sound like he was saving anywhere near the recommended 15% for retirement.

It also sounds like he failed to act responsible and get himself disability insurance.

I'm sorry for the misfortune of your father.

The fact that he could so easily be replaced by a couple of green horns doesn't mesh well with your story about how experienced and awesome he was.

If he was in reality as he is in your esteem, and I'm not saying he isn't, he could have found work easily in his own experience. That savings could have afforded him to become a consultant, or start his own business.

Or maybe he would have had enough to purchase an income annuity.

Poor decisions abound.

LOLOLOL, STFU

 

[AlecTheGardener]

LOLOLOL, STFU

No, it is clear my father made poor decisions.


However this delineates from my point exactly. My father made the same decisions as the union tradesmen, and lost out in the end.

He was late to the work force since he spent the sixties being a pot smoking traveling carpenter. When he finally got his shit together he began working as a finish carpenter on custom homes, he did well on his own, a job was offered he accepted.

This was his first actual job where he was able to begin saving, he POURED massive amounts of his salary into his savings and investments until the day he was let go. He claims to have put an average of no less then 50% of his salary during the last six years of his employment there into savings and investments.

I tend to believe him because he saved for such a short period I would have expected him to be living in my basement at this point. His accounts also lend credence to his short lived but zealous saving nature.

I also do not presume to know the full extension of investments and trusts my father may have made without my knowledge. Maybe he has been supporting another family for a decade or so.

The fact remains that he has been at a disadvantage when I compare him to union workers.

Oh, also benefits, it took him forever to actually get to a point where he had medical benefits! Bummer. Union guys get that pretty standard I think. No?

 

[BigNBushy]

When are you actually gonna educate yourself about a union? You make these statements based off of your scab fathers union busting propaganda brainwashing. Are you really that dense, you think the wage union members are paid are based on a formula that goes off of min wage? Wow, maybe the retirement bennis are figured by formula but not wage,lol. So unions don't bring up the standard of living in a community, what about those prevailing wage jobs? I bet you go ask some scabs working on a PW job how they like the wage over a normal non PW job, bet they say they wish they were on PW jobs all the time they can thank the unions. Why are all union wages different amongst the trades if they are based off of Min. wage? Why do I get a raise every year if min. wage doesn't go up? How can be? You have no idea how a union works, why do you keep talking about it? Was your dad ever part of a union? Or was he just trained how to scare his employees from organizing with lies and propaganda.

In the era when capitalism had no restraints the union was a vital and needed organization.

Fortunately for everyone most of what those earlier unions fought for is exceeded by labor laws.

Unions, like nearly everything else had to keep working to make themselves relevant.

They kept negotiating better conditions and eventually they passed the point of what I consider reasonable.
Different people can disagree on what is reasonable.

Not all unions have.

The auto union has. I have an uncle who was a high ranking union official. He is dead now. But he retired in the mid 90's, his widow still draws his retirement salary. It's nearly 50k. On top of his social security.

That's why a new Chevy and Ford is so expensive.

When I was in rehab the one I went to first was super expensive. I told my parents not to pay for it, that I wasn't done. The rehab of course convinced them they could cure me. The rail roads sent their people there.

So there is a rehab in knoxville Tennessee that is one of the highest rated in the country. Rail road workers from all over the country go there, while there they get 80% of their pay, 90 days in house and six months in half way house, all at 80% salary while the rail road pays the rehab 100k or better for them.

It's absurd that you can't fire an alcoholic, you have to pay to send one to rehab, and pay them their salary while there.

That is too far.

Now, if you don't understand formulas I don't know if I can communicate with you.

Minimum wage × Y = salary

Y can be different from one place to another. And it does.

And not all have that formula. But many do.

 

[Hazydat620]

No, it is clear my father made poor decisions.


However this delineates from my point exactly. My father made the same decisions as the union tradesmen, and lost out in the end.

He was late to the work force since he spent the sixties being a pot smoking traveling carpenter. When he finally got his shit together he began working as a finish carpenter on custom homes, he did well on his own, a job was offered he accepted.

This was his first actual job where he was able to begin saving, he POURED massive amounts of his salary into his savings and investments until the day he was let go. He claims to have put an average of no less then 50% of his salary during the last six years of his employment there into savings and investments.

I tend to believe him because he saved for such a short period I would have expected him to be living in my basement at this point. His accounts also lend credence to his short lived but zealous saving nature.

I also do not presume to know the full extension of investments and trusts my father may have made without my knowledge. Maybe he has been supporting another family for a decade or so.

The fact remains that he has been at a disadvantage when I compare him to union workers.

Oh, also benefits, it took him forever to actually get to a point where he had medical benefits! Bummer. Union guys get that pretty standard I think. No?

Depends on the union, the local laborers and hod carriers get benni's the day they start. Int-ext. specialists takes a certain amount of hours worked, usually enough to bank three months of healthcare, vaction and ret. is based on your %. Wood butchers unknown but sure close the same. The only disadvantage your dad had, was people like BnB and his dad filling your dads head full of lies about the union and why it was best to stay with them and starve. It is never too late to get in the union, and your dad should have looked into it. Why should your dad have to pay a bunch of people and buy all sort of insurances to secure a future for himself, why shouldn't his hard work been enough?

 

[AlecTheGardener]

Depends on the union, the local laborers and hod carriers get benni's the day they start. Int-ext. specialists takes a certain amount of hours worked, usually enough to bank three months of healthcare, vaction and ret. is based on your %. Wood butchers unknown but sure close the same. The only disadvantage your dad had, was people like BnB and his dad filling your dads head full of lies about the union and why it was best to stay with them and starve. It is never too late to get in the union, and your dad should have looked into it. Why should your dad have to pay a bunch of people and buy all sort of insurances to secure a future for himself, why shouldn't his hard work been enough?

Who knows?! Nowadays we just remodel my home and drink with the tradesmen at the bar. The conversations are great.

 

[Hazydat620]

In the era when capitalism had no restraints the union was a vital and needed organization.

Fortunately for everyone most of what those earlier unions fought for is exceeded by labor laws.

Unions, like nearly everything else had to keep working to make themselves relevant.

They kept negotiating better conditions and eventually they passed the point of what I consider reasonable.
Different people can disagree on what is reasonable.

Not all unions have.

The auto union has. I have an uncle who was a high ranking union official. He is dead now. But he retired in the mid 90's, his widow still draws his retirement salary. It's nearly 50k. On top of his social security.

That's why a new Chevy and Ford is so expensive.

When I was in rehab the one I went to first was super expensive. I told my parents not to pay for it, that I wasn't done. The rehab of course convinced them they could cure me. The rail roads sent their people there.

So there is a rehab in knoxville Tennessee that is one of the highest rated in the country. Rail road workers from all over the country go there, while there they get 80% of their pay, 90 days in house and six months in half way house, all at 80% salary while the rail road pays the rehab 100k or better for them.

It's absurd that you can't fire an alcoholic, you have to pay to send one to rehab, and pay them their salary while there.

That is too far.

Now, if you don't understand formulas I don't know if I can communicate with you.

Minimum wage × Y = salary

Y can be different from one place to another. And it does.

And not all have that formula. But many do.

More of your bullshit propaganda. Who says you can't fire a alchy? the only ones who's jobs are secured like that are the higher brass. You see it is real easy to get rid of a bum out in the field, you lay them off. Bring em in the office, sit em down and say sorry bub, not enough work to keep you on, call the hall and the unemployment office, good luck. The company's don't pay for my rehab, I should know I have failed 3 or more union drug tests. My insurance, that I work for, pays for it if I went to kaiser out patient. Anywhere else I was on my own. Why can't you face the fact you know nothing of what you talk about. Fill that Y variable in with something and show me your formula. I guarantee you can't make that formula make sense to any one here.

 

[BigNBushy]

More of your bullshit propaganda. Who says you can't fire a alchy? the only ones who's jobs are secured like that are the higher brass. You see it is real easy to get rid of a bum out in the field, you lay them off. Bring em in the office, sit em down and say sorry bub, not enough work to keep you on, call the hall and the unemployment office, good luck. The company's don't pay for my rehab, I should know I have failed 3 or more union drug tests. My insurance, that I work for, pays for it if I went to kaiser out patient. Anywhere else I was on my own. Why can't you face the fact you know nothing of what you talk about. Fill that Y variable in with something and show me your formula. I guarantee you can't make that formula make sense to any one here.

Higher brass, eh?

Dude, I was in there with those guys. They were engineers, conductors, and yard workers.

Just so you know, yard workers are about as low on the totem pole as it gets.

Even guys that were caught drunk on the job were sent to rehab, and given 80% pay for their year off.

One guy wrecked the rail road company's truck drunk.

Now, drunk or high on the job means you're tested a lot when you get back and second time is termination.

It was a joke to them.

One of the guys was a conductor from New Orleans. He wanted to stay sober when he got back. So he started gambling a lot. He then went back, self reported gambling problem, to get a year of treatment again.

 

[Hazydat620]

Higher brass, eh?

Dude, I was in there with those guys. They were engineers, conductors, and yard workers.

Just so you know, yard workers are about as low on the totem pole as it gets.

Even guys that were caught drunk on the job were sent to rehab, and given 80% pay for their year off.

One guy wrecked the rail road company's truck drunk.

Now, drunk or high on the job means you're tested a lot when you get back and second time is termination.

It was a joke to them.

One of the guys was a conductor from New Orleans. He wanted to stay sober when he got back. So he started gambling a lot. He then went back, self reported gambling problem, to get a year of treatment again.

So why do you blame the unions? Alcoholism and gambling are considered addictions and classified as an illness or disease and therefore not a grounds to terminate. You should blame the federal govt. for that. I suppose you would like the power to fire someone in a wheel chair, or cause they are overweight, or maybe cause they have MS. I've got you nailed to a T.

 

[Commander Strax]

A 12"TV was $600 and you can't give them away now. One commodity is not representative of the cost of living.

'82 Sylvania: $430 (19")

you are not a great shopper
a black and white tv '82 GE: $105 (12")


you should have gone with VCR

 

[schuylaar]

Ughh, that's gross.

It's well documented that in times of economic hardship, the sale of cat/dog food dramatically increases.

They are supposedly safe for human consumption.

All raising minimum wage will do is make those poor fucker eat more cat food.

except where its stamped on the bag "not safe for human consumption".

hell, publix has to put a "not safe" sign in the freezer where Frosty Paws is..seems the stamp on the all over the box is not enough.

 

[schuylaar]

Uncle Buck is one of the biggest trolls on this board, does he even grow weed or he just hear to talk about butt fucking?

The minimum wage increasing would be a pain in the ass for everyone except those below it. Our dollars are increasingly less money while most people get small increases in pay over time. We are on a one way ticket to Uncle Buck America.

i'd gladly live in UB america..hamm's for everyone!

 

[schuylaar]

'82 Sylvania: $430 (19")

you are not a great shopper
a black and white tv '82 GE: $105 (12")

that's because red never looks anything up. part of the troll charm.

 

[schuylaar]

Black and other minorities get subsidies and grants from the federal government to start a business. I don't have a huge problem with that.

my problem is the tax credits and subsidies they get, for years on end.


It's hard to compete against a business that gets tax money instead of pays taxes.

really? from where?..i'd like to apply.

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

Ughh, that's gross.

It's well documented that in times of economic hardship, the sale of cat/dog food dramatically increases.

They are supposedly safe for human consumption.

All raising minimum wage will do is make those poor fucker eat more cat food.

compare the ingredients. Alpo with carrots

 

[BigNBushy]

except where its stamped on the bag "not safe for human consumption".

hell, publix has to put a "not safe" sign in the freezer where Frosty Paws is..seems the stamp on the all over the box is not enough.

They have to do that.

But on the back end, the FDA requires them to make the food safe for people.

Have you not seen district 9?

 

[schuylaar]

My dad is collecting on his full union retirement and earning a paycheck working at the same company he retired from. They let you work a certain amount of hours a year and still collect retirement. He can't complain. How many lost their entire employer funded retirement in 2008

me.

 

[schuylaar]

They have to do that.

But on the back end, the FDA requires them to make the food safe for people.

Have you not seen district 9?

as long a there is a dollar menu at mcd's; that's my choice.