Nutrient companies are stealing our / your money. Lets talk about it!

[jonnynobody]

This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!

Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?

Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.

Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):

The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?

The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves

If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.

Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!

Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.

My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.

I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.

There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER

BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.

 

[pk_boosted2]

This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!

Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?

Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.

Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):

The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?

The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves

If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.

Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!

Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.

My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.

I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.

There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER

BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.

To answer ur question easily. Companies like AN developed a lineup so u can create ur nutrient profile specific to the needs of individual strains. They also have nutrients in so many bottles bcuz they understand that in order to have direct control of ur grows u need to be able to use certain amounts of macro and micro nutrients and other elements bcuz every strain grows differently

There isnt just one bottle of anything that can provide all of the needs of ur plants so they provide everything u need to use in each form so u can apply them as needed.

Also AN nutrients r chelated and broken down to the best possible form for plant uptake. U cant provide everything in one bottle bcuz if u tried to the solutions would become suspended and separate and wouldnt work properly. Therefore they put them in different solutions and suspensions so u can deliver them to ur plants for optimal growth and production. AN is a very reputable company and their products are some of the best in class in each specific area they target.

U also dont need to use "15" bottles of anything to get good results. They simply offer and can provide them as u need them.

All u need from AN to get good results is one of their bases which are very inexpensive bcuz they r not only highly concentrated but also chelated for optimal uptake. They last a very long time as u dont need much of them to provide all essential elements for ur plants.

So after u get their bases all u need to grow is 4 things:
Voodoo Juice
B-52
Big Bud
Overdrive

The other products they offer are simply for piece of mind and for optimal results.
Rhino Skin - Mag and Silicates
Piranaha & Tarantula - Bene's & Microbes
Bud Candy - carbohydrates

I use most of their lineup for my grows and I can promise you and anyone else that it is well worth the money. Not only do you get superb quality flowers but they produce massive yields and huge flowers!!

I also like Canna and I think that is the best on the market all around and easiest to use. The whole lineup is only 5 things:
*Bases (a&b)
*Canna-Boost (Best product of its kind and is by far best Bloom Enhancer on the market it is 2nd to none) many companies try to make their own version but nothing comes close.. It is most exp partof the lineup but is by far the best on the market hands down!!
*PK 13:14
*Cannazyme
**** Only thing I recommend adding is the H&G Roots Excellurator which is the best product of its kind on the market for root innoculation and enhancement period.

If u wanna go cheaper route but give up final yield but focus on quality I recommend Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Series
Its easy to use. Comes w one base that works very well as a stand alone nutrient without needing kuch of anything else and it is very inexpensive.

I run the Veg & Bloom
Cal-Mag
Silicate
Hydroplex
H&G Roots Excel.
Atami Bloombastic
Sweet Raw Natural
And I average 1.5-1.75 per 1000w lamp. That being said I do get less overall yield but the quality of the flowers: smell, taste, aroma and potency is right up their with AN & Canna.

As far as GO 3-Part although the bases r very inexpensive the plants in order to get great results u still need to substitute other amendments and supplements to maximize yield and quality. Its a synthetic nutrient and doesnt produce the falvors aromas and consistency I find in AN, Canna or Botanicare; but I do know many big time growers who love the 3-Part bcuz it is cheap and easy to use. The only down side for me as mentioned is quality and yield, without alot of other by products it not in the top tier of nutrient bases available on market I consider it to be bottom tier or mid-tier nutrient as a whole.

I do like the GO General Organic line up though. Its alot of bottles and is priced fairly but it provides some very nice quality flowers without sacrificing alot of yield either. All around its great product if u wanna go organic and price is fairly reasonable.

As ppl mention IMO Dyna-Gro, Jack's, Humboldt County, Dutch Masters, Atami are bottom of the barrel nutrients. They dont produce good yields, the quality is terrible, and aroma and flavor is awful. Since these products are primarily pure synthetics that is a given. If u dont have $$ any of them will work as they are cheap as the dirt u use but I would never use any of them to grow at all.

In this business ur input is as only good as ur output. Meaning you pay for what u get. So go with #1 Canna #2 Adv Nutrients #3 H&G #4 Botanicare #5 Complete Nutrients (new product very good all around nutrients - combination between AN and Canna - but very expensive and not as good as either of those companies as its a "knock-off" brand.

Ppl can argue all they want there is a reason that Canna - AN and Botanicare are the leading MJ nutrients in the world. You pay for what you get. When u compare your input (cost up front) for your output "ROI" (return on investment) using any of the mentioned products I use with out perform and of those cheaper products on the market hands down.

 

[chuck estevez]

LOL

Nuff said,

 

[chuck estevez]

To answer ur question easily. Companies like AN developed a lineup so u can create ur nutrient profile specific to the needs of individual strains. They also have nutrients in so many bottles bcuz they understand that in order to have direct control of ur grows u need to be able to use certain amounts of macro and micro nutrients and other elements bcuz every strain grows differently

There isnt just one bottle of anything that can provide all of the needs of ur plants so they provide everything u need to use in each form so u can apply them as needed.

Also AN nutrients r chelated and broken down to the best possible form for plant uptake. U cant provide everything in one bottle bcuz if u tried to the solutions would become suspended and separate and wouldnt work properly. Therefore they put them in different solutions and suspensions so u can deliver them to ur plants for optimal growth and production. AN is a very reputable company and their products are some of the best in class in each specific area they target.

U also dont need to use "15" bottles of anything to get good results. They simply offer and can provide them as u need them.

All u need from AN to get good results is one of their bases which are very inexpensive bcuz they r not only highly concentrated but also chelated for optimal uptake. They last a very long time as u dont need much of them to provide all essential elements for ur plants.

So after u get their bases all u need to grow is 4 things:
Voodoo Juice
B-52
Big Bud
Overdrive

The other products they offer are simply for piece of mind and for optimal results.
Rhino Skin - Mag and Silicates
Piranaha & Tarantula - Bene's & Microbes
Bud Candy - carbohydrates

I use most of their lineup for my grows and I can promise you and anyone else that it is well worth the money. Not only do you get superb quality flowers but they produce massive yields and huge flowers!!

I also like Canna and I think that is the best on the market all around and easiest to use. The whole lineup is only 5 things:
*Bases (a&b)
*Canna-Boost (Best product of its kind and is by far best Bloom Enhancer on the market it is 2nd to none) many companies try to make their own version but nothing comes close.. It is most exp partof the lineup but is by far the best on the market hands down!!
*PK 13:14
*Cannazyme
**** Only thing I recommend adding is the H&G Roots Excellurator which is the best product of its kind on the market for root innoculation and enhancement period.

If u wanna go cheaper route but give up final yield but focus on quality I recommend Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Series
Its easy to use. Comes w one base that works very well as a stand alone nutrient without needing kuch of anything else and it is very inexpensive.

I run the Veg & Bloom
Cal-Mag
Silicate
Hydroplex
H&G Roots Excel.
Atami Bloombastic
Sweet Raw Natural
And I average 1.5-1.75 per 1000w lamp. That being said I do get less overall yield but the quality of the flowers: smell, taste, aroma and potency is right up their with AN & Canna.

As far as GO 3-Part although the bases r very inexpensive the plants in order to get great results u still need to substitute other amendments and supplements to maximize yield and quality. Its a synthetic nutrient and doesnt produce the falvors aromas and consistency I find in AN, Canna or Botanicare; but I do know many big time growers who love the 3-Part bcuz it is cheap and easy to use. The only down side for me as mentioned is quality and yield, without alot of other by products it not in the top tier of nutrient bases available on market I consider it to be bottom tier or mid-tier nutrient as a whole.

I do like the GO General Organic line up though. Its alot of bottles and is priced fairly but it provides some very nice quality flowers without sacrificing alot of yield either. All around its great product if u wanna go organic and price is fairly reasonable.

As ppl mention IMO Dyna-Gro, Jack's, Humboldt County, Dutch Masters, Atami are bottom of the barrel nutrients. They dont produce good yields, the quality is terrible, and aroma and flavor is awful. Since these products are primarily pure synthetics that is a given. If u dont have $$ any of them will work as they are cheap as the dirt u use but I would never use any of them to grow at all.

In this business ur input is as only good as ur output. Meaning you pay for what u get. So go with #1 Canna #2 Adv Nutrients #3 H&G #4 Botanicare #5 Complete Nutrients (new product very good all around nutrients - combination between AN and Canna - but very expensive and not as good as either of those companies as its a "knock-off" brand.

Ppl can argue all they want there is a reason that Canna - AN and Botanicare are the leading MJ nutrients in the world. You pay for what you get. When u compare your input (cost up front) for your output "ROI" (return on investment) using any of the mentioned products I use with out perform and of those cheaper products on the market hands down.

WORD FOR WORD, exactly what he tells his hydro store customers every day. He spouts it SO much. he actually believes it,LOL

 

[unspecified]

This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!

Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?

Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.

Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):

The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?

The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves

If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.

Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!

Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.

My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.

I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.

There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER

BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.

AN suggest you use all their products, like any good business. They do not say you have to have them all, some are "enhancers" that you dont have to use. They also make a wide range of products because everyone swears their way is the best and want to make a product for everyone. I've had nice grows with just the basic AN jungle Juice 3 part and with the Ph perfect. Both companies will tell you it was designed for hydro but works in soil.

GH is glad to have the Mj market but its not their main target!

While he acknowledged the medical marijuana industry uses his company’s products, he said it has never been the company’s focus. Rather, he said his lifelong goal has been to perfect ways to grow food more efficiently on a planet whose resources are strained by an exploding population.

“However large a cannabis market may be, a fruit market is exponentially larger,” Brooke said.

 

[phil k]

This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!

Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?

Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.

Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):

The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?

The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves

If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.

Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!

Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.

My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.

I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.

There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER

BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.

completely freaking agree but the issues come into play when you open a grow magazine and see all these full page ads of marketing at its best to sell you the crap you don't need.. i always tried telling people that when they are buying stuff.... like years ago when advanced came out and it was like 600+ $ just to run their line... and EVERYONE was itching to run it because their marketing was so good.. it all comes to what you said.. NPK macro.. micros.. beneficial bacteria and shit like mycos and bacillus

but also when you as a new grower walk into any hydro store with cash and say hey i wanna have the best system point me to it.. the last thing they do is walk you to something like general hydroponics line or something thats completely reliable.. proven and cheap .. they walk you straight to the bud candy/connisuer bottles... or the house of gardens .. or humboldt.. ya know ..

 

[Fogdog]

LOL

Nuff said,

Sorry but I'm not sure what you trying to say. I'm not picking a fight, I'm just trying to learn. Are you saying this one bottle is all one would need or are you poking fun at the product or you are trying to say something else?

 

[phil k]

AN suggest you use all their products, like any good business. They do not say you have to have them all, some are "enhancers" that you dont have to use. They also make a wide range of products because everyone swears their way is the best and want to make a product for everyone. I've had nice grows with just the basic AN jungle Juice 3 part and with the Ph perfect. Both companies will tell you it was designed for hydro but works in soil.

GH is glad to have the Mj market but its not their main target!

While he acknowledged the medical marijuana industry uses his company’s products, he said it has never been the company’s focus. Rather, he said his lifelong goal has been to perfect ways to grow food more efficiently on a planet whose resources are strained by an exploding population.

“However large a cannabis market may be, a fruit market is exponentially larger,” Brooke said.

GH originally started their company on a nasa contract to create a grow line they could use in shit like the space station to grow .... thats how they started ... well i can't say thats how they actually first started but i do know their first big break was the nasa thing.

 

[chuck estevez]

Sorry but I'm not sure what you trying to say. I'm not picking a fight, I'm just trying to learn. Are you saying this one bottle is all one would need or are you poking fun at the product or you are trying to say something else?

I grow multiple strains, all with this one bottle, start to finish, ANYTHING made cannabis specific is designed for one thing, to get your $$$$$

 

[chuck estevez]

everything a plant needs

 

[phil k]

well sugars become important to to an extent but theres sugars in shit people don't even realize.. amendment wise you can get ample sugars from soybean meal.

This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!

Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?

Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.

Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):

The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?

The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves

If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.

Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!

Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.

My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.

I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.

There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER

BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.

This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!

Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?

Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.

Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):

The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?

The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves

If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.

Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!

Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.

My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.

I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.

There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER

BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.

 

[phil k]

I grow multiple strains, all with this one bottle, start to finish, ANYTHING made cannabis specific is designed for one thing, to get your $$$$$

yeah absolutely if you know what your doing feed wise you can grow with 1 and 2 parts.. all your getting with 8 part systems is 1 and 2 part systems separated.. thats it.. instead of calcium.. magnesium.. sugars.. all in one they put them in separate bottles and charge you individually for each chemical as opposed to charging you for one mix.....

i don't use chemicals but I'm the same i have butt loads of genetics... and have gone through butt loads in the past ... never had issues growing the way i do all my strains are always hardy and healthy as long as you know what your doing... you can't make the genetics grow better with some magic chemicals ... the genetics are what they are you either grow them properly and healthy without drowning them in foods and water or you don't

 

[Fogdog]

This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!

Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?

Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.

Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):

The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?

The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves

If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.

Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!

Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.

My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.

I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.

There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER

BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.

I'm trying to learn as much as I can before the laws in Oregon regarding non-medical MJ growing open up in July. I will say that I'm put off by the hype that the hydro suppliers use to push their stuff and suspicious that there isn't good science behind it. When picking a wine, if I'm confronted with selections that I haven't tried I have a rule of thumb regarding colors on the label. More than two colors on the label -- marketing hype, choose a different bottle. Those psychedelic labels with eye popping colors on the hydro nutrient bottles set off an alert to me that somebody is selling something other than plant food. This post and others confirms my suspicions. So, thanks for this post!

 

[chuck estevez]

I'm trying to learn as much as I can before the laws in Oregon regarding non-medical MJ growing open up in July. I will say that I'm put off by the hype that the hydro suppliers use to push their stuff and suspicious that there isn't good science behind it. When picking a wine, if I'm confronted with selections that I haven't tried I have a rule of thumb regarding colors on the label. More than two colors on the label -- marketing hype, choose a different bottle. Those psychedelic labels with eye popping colors on the hydro nutrient bottles set off an alert to me that somebody is selling something other than plant food. This post and others confirms my suspicions. So, thanks for this post!

a plant is a plant and Weed is no different than any other plant. there is no magic bottles. Remember this
in soil/dirt, you want a living medium. you feed the soil, the soil feeds the plant. this requires understanding organic soil
for synthetic nutes, use a soiless,i e peat/coco or do full hydro.
most people buy a bag of ocean forest and start pumping it full of AN nutes. it doesn't usually work very well.

 

[unspecified]

I'm trying to learn as much as I can before the laws in Oregon regarding non-medical MJ growing open up in July. I will say that I'm put off by the hype that the hydro suppliers use to push their stuff and suspicious that there isn't good science behind it. When picking a wine, if I'm confronted with selections that I haven't tried I have a rule of thumb regarding colors on the label. More than two colors on the label -- marketing hype, choose a different bottle. Those psychedelic labels with eye popping colors on the hydro nutrient bottles set off an alert to me that somebody is selling something other than plant food. This post and others confirms my suspicions. So, thanks for this post!

There is plenty of science behind them! look into GH. They aren't a weed nutrient business. They are a nutrient company based on science and mass producing any type of fruit or veggie. It's doctors and scientists that started the company.

using a flashy bottle is obviously to catch your but in no way means it's junk. What a terrible way to select wine as well! I live in wine country, I drive through vineyards to get to my property, my family works in the wine business, I get free wine all the time and that is a terrible way to judge! There is an old saying for this! Don't judge a book by it's cover!

 

[chuck estevez]

There is plenty of science behind them! look into GH. They aren't a weed nutrient business. They are a nutrient company based on science and mass producing any type of fruit or veggie. It's doctors and scientists that started the company.

and they are now owned by SCOTT'S/Monsanto/miracle gro, still want to use them?

 

[unspecified]

and they are now owned by SCOTT'S/Monsanto/miracle gro, still want to use them?

I don't use them anymore... I'm all outdoor now, all organic, brewing teas. Who bought them recently has nothing to do with the product and yes I would still use them knowing they were bought by them! That's millions more they can spend on R&D. Scott's is a leader in the fert business for a reason, thier shit works and there is ton of science behind them. that is their thing...

How is something bad because a big company bought it? This huge fert company realized GH was a great product and purchased it, they aren't changing the formula or how its made, they are going to start making other products under the GH line and keep the original money maker. Scotts has talked about getting into the MJ market long before they actually bought GH. buying GH was just an easy step into the market with a huge share of the market already using their product now, they don't have to build their name from scratch to make money, they have a trusted brand they can expand on. Good business, not their fault if you buy something you don't need. Maybe study more and you won't waste your money.

 

[chuck estevez]

I don't use them anymore... I'm all outdoor now, all organic, brewing teas. Who bought them recently has nothing to do with the product and yes I would still use them knowing they were bought by them! That's millions more they can spend on R&D. Scott's is a leader in the fert business for a reason, thier shit works and there is ton of science behind them. that is their thing...

How is something bad because a big company bought it? This huge fert company realized GH was a great product and purchased it, they aren't changing the formula or how its made, they are going to start making other products under the GH line and keep the original money maker. Scotts has talked about getting into the MJ market long before they actually bought GH. buying GH was just an easy step into the market with a huge share of the market already using their product now, they don't have to build their name from scratch to make money, they have a trusted brand they can expand on. Good business, not their fault if you buy something you don't need. Maybe study more and you won't waste your money.

if you enjoy supporting greedy corporations like Monsanto, who will eventually ruin Marijuana as we know it, then good for you. Just remember, when it happens, you helped it. good luck with that.

• 1998 - Monsanto: Scotts entered into a collaboration with the Monsanto Company to bring the benefits of biotechnology to the multi-billion dollar turfgrass and ornamental plants business. Under the agreement, Scotts and Monsanto agree to share technologies, including Monsanto's extensive genetic library of plant traits and Scotts' proprietary gene gun technology to produce improved transgenic turfgrasses and ornamental plants.

 

[chuck estevez]

what a GREAT company

Sale of bird seed in 2005–2008[edit]
On January 27, 2012, Scotts Miracle-Gro agreed to plead guilty in federal court and pay $4.5 million in fines for selling 73 million units of bird seed from November 2005 to March 2008 that was coated with pesticide known to be deadly to birds and fish. Pesticides were added to protect the product from insects during storage, notwithstanding that Storcide II, one of the pesticides used, was clearly marked as extremely toxic to birds. Records show that its own experts warned of the risk in the summer and fall of 2007 and yet Scotts continued to sell the deadly product until March 2008. In 2008, Scotts Miracle-Gro also falsified pesticide registration numbers required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on its products.[5]

On September 7, 2012, in Ohio, a federal court sentenced Scotts to pay a $4 million fine and perform community service for 11 criminal violations of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA). In a separate agreement with the Environmental Protection Agency, Scotts agreed to pay more than $6 million in penalties and spend $2 million on environmental projects. According to the Justice Department, both the criminal and civil settlements are the largest under FIFRA to date.[6]

 

[unspecified]

if you enjoy supporting greedy corporations like Monsanto, who will eventually ruin Marijuana as we know it, then good for you. Just remember, when it happens, you helped it. good luck with that.

HAHAHA! Yes I am in support of greedy corporations! If I had the chance to start a huge corp you bet your ass I would! What makes them greedy? The fact that they want to make money? that's not greedy! Have they raised the price on their products since purchasing it? no they havent.
It's called good business to expand. You try to make as much money as you can, are you greedy? just because they are on a larger scale doesn't mean they are greedy. Have you seen the amount of donations those companies make, companies don't have to give anything, do anything but they have. Just because you can write off donations on taxes it doesn't mean you saved money. They still don't have the money they gave away, big deal they don't have to pay taxes on money they don't have. I would rather pay 30% taxes and still have my other 70%

How will they ruin marijuana as we know it? I don't even use their products, I make my own...