giving defoliation during flower a try

[Uncle Ben]

Hello! My first post, as I waited 2 months for my confirmation email to join this forum I really needed to post on like 2 months ago.
Anyways this is a hot topic between me and a friend. Anyways he believes in defoliating and I do not.

Here's how I see it; simplest way to say..

Fan leaves grow roots.
More plant above dirt, more roots below dirt. Each fan leaf has veins that I suppose are linked to its own root below. The fan leaf makes food, root stores it. Then when it buds, the food storage in the root feeds through the branch forming bud.
If you destroy a fan leaf I imagine you killing the root it runs to below therefore killing your buds reserve. That's how I see it. I used to play hide and seek in plants when I was like 3. It's my way or life.

How uncanny, just addressed this - https://www.rollitup.org/t/uncle-bens-topping-technique-to-get-2-or-4-main-colas.151706/page-277#post-10809945

 

[Uncle Ben]

I find it interesting most sativa plants can grow well with virtually no leaves, but i do not think it improves yield

No, it doesn't improve yields and most if not all my sativas, indoors or out, finish with plenty of leaves.

 

[BDOGKush]

Stupid plants don't they know they don't need those fan leaves? Wish they'd get with the times and evolve already....

Does anyone else find it amusing that people in the defoliaton camp think a plant doesn't know how to grow? That it puts energy into growing leaves for no reason?

 

[Jimdamick]

Just an experiment I guess. I did some reading on the subject and understand where both sides are coming from but I wanted to see for myself.if it works sweet if not I'll just know not to do that again.
You see I figure it this way; I'll try a bunch of different growing methods early on so I can perfect the style that best suits me. I'll update with some pics in a few days.

Till then happy growing!

Me, myself and I cut light blockers to the bud around 3 weeks before harvest. Those fan leaves are half shot anyway, and the added light to the bud definitely helps them in my opinion. I do not cut every leaf, but only the ones above bud sites. Try it. Keep some bud under a leaf, and cut some leafs above bud site. Simple test, and you will see which is better.Peace out.

 

[skunkd0c]

No, it doesn't improve yields and most if not all my sativas, indoors or out, finish with plenty of leaves.

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Have you seen blues grow, its a sativa dom, not pure sativa
the calyx to leaf ratio is pretty insane very few bud leaves
these type of plants seem to grow with very few leaves naturally
if you flower them when small clones overall the amount of leaves including larger leaves compared
to the amount of bud/cola produced is huge
that is what i was thinking of, or kali mist, although you could find this trait with other sativa doms

the point i was making is, some plants will actually grow less leaves naturally, than other plants that would be considered defoliated,
not sure what all this means, but i find it interesting

 

[Uncle Ben]

Sounds interesting. In all fairness, no, I haven't kissed all the pretty ladies.

 

[jpizzle4shizzle]

The argument defoliaters bring acrossed is look how much bigger my plant looks after defioliation. So i bet your penis grows as well when you shave your pubes. I wouldn't label myself an experienced grower but i see no scientific basis of defoliaters theory. Only pictures compared to nothing, the way i see it is less leaves hinder photosynthesis so what scientific benefit is there to defoliating? Pictures prove nothing, i see fat girls looking great in pics all the time

 

[Sativied]

So I bet your penis grows as well when you shave your pubes.

Perfect analogy

 

[Stompromper]

Enjoy your airy little popcorn fluff that gets no light.. cut a few light blockers and see what happens to it.. so may pros that don't know Wtf they are talking about.

 

[Sativied]

the point i was making is, some plants will actually grow less leaves naturally, than other plants that would be considered defoliated,
not sure what all this means, but i find it interesting

I've had haze buds that got so fat they sort of swallowed up the leaves leaving very little green for photosynthesis. Sugar leaves are not as effective as fans though, being they are full with trichs (in my case anyway ) and there purpose is to protect the buds in multiple ways include preventing them from drying out. It's indeed interesting how some plants can do with less, but.... those sativas usually take longer too so they have more time to gather the energy they need.

One of the ICE (indica) x Cannalope Haze (sativa-dom pheno) crosses I've grown last round was so leafy it wouldn't surprise me if it would have done at least as well with less leaves, maybe... maybe even a little better. Indica-short internodes from top to bottom.



After shaving pubes:


Not that there was any more popcorn on it than what I smoked during the day of the final trim... but an example of what I meant with "bad genetics".

 

[Sativied]

Bored... so...

The most common argument of defolihaters (wearing that label with pride) is "photosynthesis" or "solar panels" which yes kind of says enough already but it always leads to the same (ignorant) counter argument of the inner part of the plant needing light.

Photosynthesis is however just one function of leaves...

Take a bottle of mineral nutrients, let the water evaporate, and behold the small amount, the low weight of nutrients. Obviously that small amount alone isn't going to be enough to account for the weight of all those heavy buds. The light provides energy, which is stored as sugar (which is burned for energy, and transported throughout the plant..."this is a whole plant phenomena - transport of photosynthate from leaf to root", see phloem sap translocation, eg http://www.uic.edu/classes/bios/bios100/lecturesf04am/lect19.htm ). The water we dry out the buds obviously doesn't account for all the bud either.

So where does the bud come from, what is it made of and how do plants get all that material... Hint: For photosynthesis open stomata are essential. While calyxes are through evolution modified leaves to protect the seed, and on some species bracts contain a small amount of stomata, they are located at the underside of the leaf, which obvious incase of a cannabis calyx would be useless. In addition to "gas exchange", plants transpire water through their leaves. Transpiration is a primary process for the plant as a whole (water+nutrient uptake) but also again for photosynthesis. Now imagine a LED grower (lower temp means less water potential in the air means less transpiration), growing organics, who defoliates, and flushes. The closest thing you can get to "flushing a plant" is increasing transpiration, which requires leaves... the more leaves you have, the more water you can "flush" through your plants.


"It's the good advice that you just didn't take"

 

[chuck estevez]

stomata, transpiration, respiration, those are some big words dude.

 

[Stompromper]

Throw all the horticultural mumbo jumbo that you learned in your book that you want. Ill take the word of experience over a booksmart wannabe anyday. I've seen the side by side differences many many times.. if you think that bud down in the shade is going to grow and mature just as well as a bud that's getting direct light then you have more learning to do, and I don't mean by reading your books.

 

[CaretakerDad]

Throw all the horticultural mumbo jumbo that you learned in your book that you want. Ill take the word of experience over a booksmart wannabe anyday. I've seen the side by side differences many many times.. if you think that bud down in the shade is going to grow and mature just as well as a bud that's getting direct light then you have more learning to do, and I don't mean by reading your books.

You are taking the word of internet chat dummies like yourself who are too busy to be "booksmart" and are ignoring the advice of actual experienced growers with actual real world experience, including degrees in biology and chemistry for myself. Google apical dominance and read it carefully, it explains much of what you have confusion about regarding the lower budsites. Selective harvest is the best way to fatten them up.........apical dominance.

 

[Cubicfrost]

Throw all the horticultural mumbo jumbo that you learned in your book that you want. Ill take the word of experience over a booksmart wannabe anyday. I've seen the side by side differences many many times.. if you think that bud down in the shade is going to grow and mature just as well as a bud that's getting direct light then you have more learning to do, and I don't mean by reading your books.

I think we were talking about before buds. Of course ur right, hence the scrog.

 

[jacksthc]

stomata, transpiration, respiration, those are some

Throw all the horticultural mumbo jumbo that you learned in your book that you want. Ill take the word of experience over a booksmart wannabe anyday. I've seen the side by side differences many many times.. if you think that bud down in the shade is going to grow and mature just as well as a bud that's getting direct light then you have more learning to do, and I don't mean by reading your books.

There never going to learn lol
but you right, I grow plants and over time workout what works and what don't

I did look up a book everyone was going on about and looked up airflow and guess what

it said if the canopy too thick you should remove some fan leaves to increase airflow

After they start saying you should grow plants with high bud to leaf ratio lol

Imo you look at a plant and use some common sense

if you need to fill space you top and lst and if the canopy too thick, thin it out

This is simple stuff lol

 

[Sativied]

I've seen the side by side differences many many times.. if you think that bud down in the shade is going to grow and mature just as well as a bud that's getting direct light then you have more learning to do, and I don't mean by reading your books.

if you think that bud down in the shade is not going to grow and mature just as well as a bud that's getting direct light then you have more experience to gain...

Perhaps we should start talking gpw...

 

[sgadan]

well fk it guys why not spin them on a lazy susan and have some side lighting?

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

if you think that bud down in the shade is not going to grow and mature just as well as a bud that's getting direct light then you have more experience to gain...

Perhaps we should start talking gpw...

yeah i always thought it had more to do with the architecture of the plant more so than the amount of light. Meaning the buds on the top will always be dominant and will always produce the best buds while the buds on the lower sections are less dominant and are not given the same amount of energy..

wonder how a experiment would do if you somehow shaded the top of the plant and provided light the the underside, would the top remain the heaviest yeilding portion of the plant?

i do think more light penetration does increase yields as well. but not at the cost of too many energy producing leaves (aka defoliation) i think if you remove one huge leaf to allow lights to penetrate to 10 smaller leafs giving more surface area that light is hitting essentially the plant is able to produce more food.

 

[chuck estevez]

if your having light penetration problems, I would get a better light,not molest my girls.