Chinese LED Grow – 75 (actual draw) Watts per plant veg/100W per plant flower

GroErr

Well-Known Member
And finally, the dank, lemon/pine JTR pheno, the piney smell came late, lemon is the stronger of the two, but definitely some pine smell coming through, this one should be fire :)

First and last shots are of that original centre cola/bud that turned into a huge, fat, 6"x3" mutant bud at the top of that cola, have to figure out how I did that and replicate it. Fimmed it 4 times but must have crushed/broken that cola to get the mutation ;) Kicking myself in the ass for not doing some training on the PBK's early on, JTR will probably produce the same amount as both PBK's put together... Oh well, next round is training right now, have 1x Blueberry, 1x PPP, and 1x JTR nicely trained "balls" in 5gal Root Pouches, targeting 1/2 an elbow from these 3 next round ;)

Jack The Ripper...
JTR-Day122-Day58-Flwr-1-HarvestDay.JPG JTR-Day122-Day58-Flwr-2-HarvestDay.JPG JTR-Day122-Day58-Flwr-3-HarvestDay.JPG JTR-Day122-Day58-Flwr-4-HarvestDay.JPG JTR-Day122-Day58-Flwr-5-HarvestDay.JPG JTR-Day122-Day58-Flwr-6-HarvestDay.JPG JTR-Day122-Day58-Flwr-7-HarvestDay-6x3inBud.JPG

:bigjoint::fire::bigjoint:
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Like watching paint dry ;) Finally got around to setting up a YouTube account so I can post videos. Nothing exciting, just a short vid from my camera in the flower room, it has IR so I can record while they're drying in the dark. Have 2 fans on their lowest settings to dry as slow as possible. Temps: 72-73F, Humidity: 56-58%.

The interesting thing I noticed from checking them is those hooks I have them hanging on allow the plants to turn, vs. turning them manually to get an even dry. I'm thinking of grabbing some swivels to attach to the end of the hooks, would allow the plants to spin 360 and dry them more evenly...

 
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aphrodisia

Well-Known Member
Like watching paint dry ;) Finally got around to setting up a YouTube account so I can post videos. Nothing exciting, just a short vid from my camera in the flower room, it has IR so I can record while they're drying in the dark. Have 2 fans on their lowest settings to dry as slow as possible. Temps: 72-73F, Humidity: 56-58%.

The interesting thing I noticed from checking them is those hooks I have them hanging on allow the plants to turn, vs. turning them manually to get an even dry. I'm thinking of grabbing some swivels to attach to the end of the hooks, would allow the plants to spin 360 and dry them more evenly...


Like the vid. So how would you say your indoor grow compares with your outdoor grows yield wise ?
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Like the vid. So how would you say your indoor grow compares with your outdoor grows yield wise ?
Hey aphrodisia, no comparison, but not really a fair comparison, any artificial light compared to the sun sucks. Then again, I can't grow outdoor from October to May where I am so it's more about trying to get as close to outdoor as possible. I'm more concerned about the quality indoor, and it looks like quality-wise I can get what I'm looking for so it's all good. My average plant outdoor with little or sometimes no maintenance for guerrilla grows was 4-6 zips per plant depending on strain. Until a couple of years ago I was in the country on a large property, i'd grow out about 10 spread throughout the property. Those plants where I could train/manage them easily, could pull 1/2 lb off some, but they were 5-6ft. and bushy, hard to get close to that indoor without a very long veg + training. Haven't tried growing monsters indoor, can't see tying up the rooms and waiting that long. I may try at some point just to see what I can get. I'll be trying some different methods over time, SOG, maybe SCROG, I think LED's lend themselves well to both, but still wouldn't expect to yield like outdoor.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Well folks, they're dry, trimmed and into the curing jars. Some may be disappointed at the final outcome. I know I am. While I would have liked a better outcome as I have a few of these lights, this was their final flowering round. They will continue to be used for clones, seedlings, side lighting, they veg quite well, but when it comes to flowering I'm looking as we speak to obtain some lights that can flower and produce dense bud/weight. More details below.

Final weight from 3 plants, was 59g of decent/smokable bud, plus another 20g of popcorn/close-to-the-bud trim for the oil bin. 1/2 of what I was thinking. Quality of the smoke is outstanding, that's the genetics, they were nicely finished, but the buds are all fluff, no density to them, obvious from the final weight.

This is actually less weight than my last round, where I felt I had more to do with the outcome than the lights themselves, but this just confirms (to me at least) that while these lights can technically flower, they suck at it. While neither of these strains were considered high producers, I would have expected 150+g from this round at the low end.

Could I have bumped the weight up? Of course, maybe some additional training, heavier on the feeds, there's always room for improvement. If anything I held back a bit, trying to mimic more of an average grow. But could I have doubled the final weight (imo the low end from medium producing strains), I highly doubt it. I don't consider myself and expert indoor but I've been growing a long time and didn't screw-up anything this round. I had a nearly perfect run from an environmental standpoint, kept them healthy throughout the run, they were strong plants going into flowering, they produced a good amount of bud sites, they just didn't produce weight/density. So, I have to blame the lights, there's nothing else that could have made a significant enough difference to produce a more acceptable final weight. And, again, this was a second chance at flowering, not the first run.

Summary:
Cheap lights, good for vegging, will continue to use them for clones, seedlings, vegging, and now side-lights. But for flowering, another light, or more accurately lights will take their place in the flower room. No quality problems with them, decent build, only thing I haven't tested them on is their warranty. They just can't produce good bud, at least to my standards, and that's what it's all about isn't it? If I throw all costs in, I could have bought this weight (2 oz.) at wholesale prices, not good...

Rough costs:
Power: $160
Nutes: $20
Seeds: $30
Water/filter: $25
Pots: $10
Work: ??

So, for flowering it's down to the following, googling and will pull the trigger on a couple of panels shortly. When I get some time I'll be looking to expand with DIY panels as they seem to be the most efficient if done right...
A51, Inda-Gro, Apache???
A51 has some great deals on right now on the XGS-190's... 2x RW-150's or 2x XGS-190's? Any thoughts? I'm leaning towards 2 of the XGS-190's @ $475/each which would do 4 plants nicely. Keep in mind, these will be dedicated flowering lights.

Will post some of the final pics later, gotta do some clean-up on the flowering room and get it ready for the next round while I wait for delivery of some decent lights. Cheers and safe growing :) Thoughts/comments/arguments are more than welcome...
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
I expected more from this run too friend.................live and learn, and you got some clean/homegrown smoke out of it:)

Slipon did have some great results with your panel...............how where your temps during flower???
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
I expected more from this run too friend.................live and learn, and you got some clean/homegrown smoke out of it:)

Slipon did have some great results with your panel...............how where your temps during flower???
Hey Psu, thanks for stopping in. Yeah, at least the quality is good, but still disappointed, temps were consistently 78-82, averaging 80 throughout flowering, maybe a little more could have produced better but it's a big delta between what I would have expected. There's just no density there, running them a little longer may have helped but I wouldn't have let them go more than a few days at most or they would have ended up too amber for my liking.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Hey Psu, thanks for stopping in. Yeah, at least the quality is good, but still disappointed, temps were consistently 78-82, averaging 80 throughout flowering, maybe a little more could have produced better but it's a big delta between what I would have expected. There's just no density there, running them a little longer may have helped but I wouldn't have let them go more than a few days at most or they would have ended up too amber for my liking.

Hey no problem grower................seems dialed in to me^^^^^, so after two runs you don't recommend this topled reflector series for flowering???? just wanna make sure if new led growers ask about it...

I would prefer the a51 150rw over the xgs190 if you decide to go that path

be safe
 

dirtyrigger

Member
How was the density on that JTR cola compared to the rest of the crop? It looks like it was closest to the light by a good margin, did that help at all?
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Hey no problem grower................seems dialed in to me^^^^^, so after two runs you don't recommend this topled reflector series for flowering???? just wanna make sure if new led growers ask about it...

I would prefer the a51 150rw over the xgs190 if you decide to go that path

be safe
No, definitely not recommending them for flowering, no problems for vegging, they're good for vegging, so for getting and keeping my perpetual grow going they'll just be relegated to the vegging/cloning/seedling cabinets, maybe since I have some extras I may use them as side-lighting/initiators. I'll dedicate some better lights for flowering and they should last longer that way too. Had I not given them a couple of shots at it (flowering), I'd consider them but both runs produced fluff, good quality fluff, but no density. Many would be hard pressed to have a room with the environmental controls/consistency I have available in the new flower room, so if you throw that factor in, newbies would end up with next to nothing from them imo.

RE: XGS-190 vs. RW-150's. For 2 panels, flowering 4 plants, and considering they have the XGS-190's at the same price as they RW-150's right now, would you still go for the RW-150's?
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
How was the density on that JTR cola compared to the rest of the crop? It looks like it was closest to the light by a good margin, did that help at all?
Hey dirtyrigger, JTR produced a total of 22.5g, the larges cola was only 5g, imo should have been 8-9 with any density though. The buds were nice looking, good size, great smoke/quality, but no density, thereby no weight. And that density was missing in both strains so I have to say the light would have been the biggest factor. This is the second flower run with these, first had some environmental issues in my old cabinet so I gave them another shot this last round but not good enough imo. I'd think/hope that a better light would produce more density. Should be able to compare somewhat in next round with a higher end light. The closest plant to the light was actually PBK1 which ended up around 33" tall, it was 12-14" from the light vs. 16-18" for the other two. It produced almost identical to the JTR, 23g's, the smaller PBK was only 13g's :(
 

aphrodisia

Well-Known Member
Well folks, they're dry, trimmed and into the curing jars. Some may be disappointed at the final outcome. I know I am. While I would have liked a better outcome as I have a few of these lights, this was their final flowering round. They will continue to be used for clones, seedlings, side lighting, they veg quite well, but when it comes to flowering I'm looking as we speak to obtain some lights that can flower and produce dense bud/weight. More details below.

Final weight from 3 plants, was 59g of decent/smokable bud, plus another 20g of popcorn/close-to-the-bud trim for the oil bin. 1/2 of what I was thinking. Quality of the smoke is outstanding, that's the genetics, they were nicely finished, but the buds are all fluff, no density to them, obvious from the final weight.

This is actually less weight than my last round, where I felt I had more to do with the outcome than the lights themselves, but this just confirms (to me at least) that while these lights can technically flower, they suck at it. While neither of these strains were considered high producers, I would have expected 150+g from this round at the low end.

Could I have bumped the weight up? Of course, maybe some additional training, heavier on the feeds, there's always room for improvement. If anything I held back a bit, trying to mimic more of an average grow. But could I have doubled the final weight (imo the low end from medium producing strains), I highly doubt it. I don't consider myself and expert indoor but I've been growing a long time and didn't screw-up anything this round. I had a nearly perfect run from an environmental standpoint, kept them healthy throughout the run, they were strong plants going into flowering, they produced a good amount of bud sites, they just didn't produce weight/density. So, I have to blame the lights, there's nothing else that could have made a significant enough difference to produce a more acceptable final weight. And, again, this was a second chance at flowering, not the first run.

Summary:
Cheap lights, good for vegging, will continue to use them for clones, seedlings, vegging, and now side-lights. But for flowering, another light, or more accurately lights will take their place in the flower room. No quality problems with them, decent build, only thing I haven't tested them on is their warranty. They just can't produce good bud, at least to my standards, and that's what it's all about isn't it? If I throw all costs in, I could have bought this weight (2 oz.) at wholesale prices, not good...

Rough costs:
Power: $160
Nutes: $20
Seeds: $30
Water/filter: $25
Pots: $10
Work: ??

So, for flowering it's down to the following, googling and will pull the trigger on a couple of panels shortly. When I get some time I'll be looking to expand with DIY panels as they seem to be the most efficient if done right...
A51, Inda-Gro, Apache???
A51 has some great deals on right now on the XGS-190's... 2x RW-150's or 2x XGS-190's? Any thoughts? I'm leaning towards 2 of the XGS-190's @ $475/each which would do 4 plants nicely. Keep in mind, these will be dedicated flowering lights.

Will post some of the final pics later, gotta do some clean-up on the flowering room and get it ready for the next round while I wait for delivery of some decent lights. Cheers and safe growing :) Thoughts/comments/arguments are more than welcome...
Hi GroErr. Sorry to hear about the dismal yield. I think this about confirms for me the pointlessness of flowering only with LEDs. There are people out there who seem to get massive yields using just LEDs but I for one haven't got a clue how they managed it. I will be flowering using a combination of both LEDs and HPS from now on as I think this is the best option for me as they really complement each other.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Hey aphrodisia, thanks for stopping in, a disappointment and confirmation that at least these panels, on their own, aren't efficient enough for flowering. There are certainly decent LED grows around so they can, typically the higher end, A51's and Apache, a couple of others. Gave these 2 rounds, 3 strains, last grow was soil, this one a lighter soil mix w/nute supplement, both produced airy buds. Plants produced a lot of bud sites, and buds, just missing density. Oh well, they veg well, have a stash, and will get to play with some new flowering lights next round ;)
 

Oddjob

Well-Known Member
Hey GroErr thanks for the grow throughout all stages. And the proof is in the pudding as they say.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Hey oddjob, thanks, yes, not a good flowering light. They'll be used for veg/clones/seedlings, but moving on to other options for flowering. Looking at starting with this Ceramatek 375W CMH, if it runs on 120v, waiting for confirmation. They're about the most efficient flowering tech out there, should cover a 4x4 nicely. Then I'll likely build a DIY LED flowering light later. I like to play with this stuff, in search of the perfect indoor environment, if that exists ;)
 

nvhak49

Well-Known Member
Are you still using the green LED panel for vegging?? Debating in to get T5s or a cheap LED panel for vegging.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Are you still using the green LED panel for vegging?? Debating in to get T5s or a cheap LED panel for vegging.
Hey nvhak, yes, still using them for seedlings, clones, vegging, they do well for those things. Still haven't had a single failure in any of the panels, not bad.
 

nvhak49

Well-Known Member
Hey nvhak, yes, still using them for seedlings, clones, vegging, they do well for those things. Still haven't had a single failure in any of the panels, not bad.
Oh dang that's awesome you've had no problems with them. That's cool your still using them for vegging and what not. Bummer they don't flower well. Are you using a different lighting now for flowering?
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Oh dang that's awesome you've had no problems with them. That's cool your still using them for vegging and what not. Bummer they don't flower well. Are you using a different lighting now for flowering?
Yeah, after I finished this thread/round (2nd shot at it with those LG reflector LED's) I switched to the Philips Elite Agro CMH (my current red signature for more details) and I think I've found the sun indoors, absolutely awesome lights/technology with all the benefits of LED's (no heat, low power draw, high efficiency) but they flower like nothing I've seen, just bought a second unit to run through the winter. At the high end they're about $1.50/watt, you can DIY them and run them bare bulb for around $1/watt. imo, the only thing that compares to these for efficiency and bud output are DIY Cree 3070 COB setups, and maybe the Apache AT600, although after seeing them in action in a test run, I'd run 2 of these for $1,000 before buying an AT600 for twice the money.
 

Goldy

Well-Known Member
hey man, how far were your panels from the tops of the buds? I've read that it's easy to have them too close with seemingly little ill effect but hugely less yield. I'll try find where I've seen it. I think it was in respect to LEDs in general rather than MarsHydro. Have you tried any other brands of LED panels?

The pics look really nice. Crazy they were so light:(

Dunno if it's been mentioned in the thread already but MarsHydro and Blackdog LED are the same. Just relabeled and sold on for heaps more. I.e. the actual wattage of the mars is half of what they state..apologies if already said.

I've been pretty impressed with the panels for veg myself..was going to look into getting the 1600w model.
 
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