I thought cloning was easy until..

[AlphaPhase]

This may sound like a dumb question, I should probably know the answer by now, but I don't..

Does a clone need to have a node on the stem below the medium? Most of these cuttings didn't because they had long node spacing

 

[AlphaPhase]

Well one of the clones has a root . I decided to go back to plain tap water because that always worked. I'm gonna change the water daily instead of every 2 or 3 days. Water temp is now 75-80.

If anyone has any knowledge, who had successfully cloned for 10 years and has had this stem mush problem let me know if anything has worked.

It seems once the slime happens it's very hard to get rid of so I hope no one has to deal with the problem . When you clone 950/1000 clones successfully and then lose 19 (19/19) in a clone session all of a sudden, there must be serious issues lol

 

[mike4c4]

im right there with you dude. i never had a problem either till two months ago. than i got the slime. now i only get one out of 4 i cut. what do use to clean your cloner? i was using a 3%peroxide.

 

[howsitgrowin420]

I switched to using just tap water (ph 6.5) for my cloning and there was an increase in the rot at the base of the stem on occasion and for some strains. From my experience, increasing the frequency of your water changes is a good idea. As for not having any more cuttings to take, just as you have been, you can trim them back a little bit if they get real bad, but some of them will still pop even after the rot (obviously not ideal, but if you don't have any more cuttings). After transplant those will take a little bit to recover and letting them go dry won't hurt anything.

I bubble all of my water for a few days to evaporate out some of the chlorine. I should try not bubbling my clone water to see if the chlorine helps prevent rot or keeps the water better for longer.

Temperature: my pump heats my water. If my temps are high, then I must change the water more frequently. If my temps are lower, then the water stays good for 3-5 days (good: doesn't stink). For me, cloning is harder in the summer than in the winter because my veg room does have a small seasonal fluctuation.

Personally, I'd stay away from cubes, but a lot of people love them.

 

[Spliffer1]

Couple thing I have found out the hard way, is the 3% H202 is pretty much useless for sterilizing, and especially useless for getting roots cleaned of the brown slime that I would sometimes get in my hydro grows (before I learned more about Beneficial's).
And, once you get the brown slime started, if you don't get it controlled quickly, the bacteria will eventually spread to every plant and surface, especially tools, you have. Thus, making it easier to spread. The longer it goes, the harder it is to get clear of. Keeping in mind- this has only been my personal experiences w/ hydro, and have since changed over to soil.
Get the 27-29% from your local hydro store, or online. I used it for a good while in dwc hydro (I'll probably draw some fire for admitting that), at the rate of 3ml - 5ml per gal, and would keep my roots pearly white. But it reeks havoc on the benefits of organics, plus kills any beneficial bacteria you may have started in your res. And I have been fortunate enough to have it clear up brown slime that had already started on the roots (if I caught it in time), by using a cup to scoop and pour the solution over/thru the media, bathing the roots 2 or 3 times a day.
Often, it would work, other times- not. But the plants do love the extra oxygen.
Should mention- h2o2 (in use) looses effectiveness after a few days. After it sheds its extra oxygen molecule, it becomes h2o
Though I no longer use it for hydro, I do use it (20ml in 1 quart of water) to sterilize my stuff- containers, scissors, surfaces- everything. I mix it up, put it in a spray bottle, and get after it! Every little nook and cranny.
So far, it's kept all of the bad stuff away.
I haven't used one (aero cloner), so I'm not sure how it would react with your nute solution in the res (may adversely effect their benefit? idk), but you could use a light (3ml/gal) in the res to try it and see. But I would DEF use a strong mix to clean and sterilize the unit- all of it, inside and out! I always boiled my air stones for about 15 minutes AND soaked them in the h2o2 solution, or replaced them, as I always did with my hoses- they're cheap.
I use Rapid Rooters, with RO water- always ph'd to 5.8- 6.0, humidity dome, and a heat mat. That's it. I get roots within 7-10 days. I know there are others with faster root times, but I stick with what works for me. When my moms are healthy- 100% root rate!
Hope this might help w your quest!

 

[burgertime2010]

The seasonal increase in temperature causes all sorts of pathogens to thrive....bugs, algae, and fungus commonly find a mother plant(s)that is too wet and warm to settle into. The immune system is tested and warmer climates require adjustments to maintain stasis in mothers. The common denominator making cloning harder is the mother, and the way we fortify, sterilize, and regulate their environment. In an ideal space, the plants are immune to temperature swings and all airborne pathogens but, this is harder than many can accomplish with the brutal summer heat. So, the angle I find helpful is to prepare the mothers by feeding them silica, fulvic acid, beneficials and then I use a sterilizing agent as well as a systemic insecticide. It might seem awkward to run bennies and then kill them but it will innoculate them and bolster their root systems. The heat will damage roots and encourage rot so I go sterile, the silica protects them from stress caused by temp, drought, and environmental fluctuation....it makes a tougher plant. A tougher mother is then prepped for cuttings to be taken by a light peroxide spray followed by a heavy rinsing of tap water. This cleans and opens up the leaves to breathe better in the dome, the rot potential is lessened, and the cuttings will be plump with stored water. Rot is too much heat and humidity in the dome...use as little water as possible and spray the dome and not the leaves. The best results come from clones that harden off early and stay as dry as possible. Clean the dome and switching out the tray is a good habit...but ideally they should be left alone, uncrowded, and free fom contact with the perpetually moist surfaces.

 

[Spliffer1]

The seasonal increase in temperature causes all sorts of pathogens to thrive....bugs, algae, and fungus commonly find a mother plant(s)that is too wet and warm to settle into. The immune system is tested and warmer climates require adjustments to maintain stasis in mothers. The common denominator making cloning harder is the mother, and the way we fortify, sterilize, and regulate their environment. In an ideal space, the plants are immune to temperature swings and all airborne pathogens but, this is harder than many can accomplish with the brutal summer heat. So, the angle I find helpful is to prepare the mothers by feeding them silica, fulvic acid, beneficials and then I use a sterilizing agent as well as a systemic insecticide. It might seem awkward to run bennies and then kill them but it will innoculate them and bolster their root systems. The heat will damage roots and encourage rot so I go sterile, the silica protects them from stress caused by temp, drought, and environmental fluctuation....it makes a tougher plant. A tougher mother is then prepped for cuttings to be taken by a light peroxide spray followed by a heavy rinsing of tap water. This cleans and opens up the leaves to breathe better in the dome, the rot potential is lessened, and the cuttings will be plump with stored water. Rot is too much heat and humidity in the dome...use as little water as possible and spray the dome and not the leaves. The best results come from clones that harden off early and stay as dry as possible. Clean the dome and switching out the tray is a good habit...but ideally they should be left alone, uncrowded, and free fom contact with the perpetually moist surfaces.

Very well put!
I'm always listening and learning, so forgive me for being nosey, but-
What's the dilution of your peroxide spray?
Would the use of that spray kill your bennies, or do you use something different as a soil drench for the sterilizing agent?
What do you use as a systemic insecticide?

 

[AlphaPhase]

It sucks doesn't it!? It really makes no sense. I used to be one of those people who would say, sanitize, keep it simple plain tap water and let the clones be, clonings easy, don't over think it, yyadda yadda lol. Now I'm like wth is happening. It's not as simple as that, I mean it is, until something takes over the cloner and then it's not fun at all.

I run the equipment through a dishwasher on high heat and sanitize mode. Then a scrub with bleach and water, then rinse a few times with water. Still no luck

im right there with you dude. i never had a problem either till two months ago. than i got the slime. now i only get one out of 4 i cut. what do use to clean your cloner? i was using a 3%peroxide.

 

[AlphaPhase]

Very good info guys. I'll look into the higher % h2o2, I only have the 3% and like you said it's unless.

I got thinking, I wonder if the neoprene pucks that hold the clones in the cloner have an infection of some sort? They are squishy and do hold some water, I ddidn't think of it until now but ewhen you said boil airstones, I got thinking I should boil the inserts. I'm going to do one more sterilization of the equipment today, including boiling the things that fit in the pot and I will use a strong chlorine mix to sterilize what doesn't fit in the pot. Wish me luck. If I don't have roots by my next day off, Wednesday I think, I will have to go pick up clones from the dispensary. I was really looking forward to growing this purple paralysis out, I hope the clones pull through

 

[ballist]

8mls per litre of 3% h2o2 should be ok in the res. I can only buy 7% locally but I have seen 14% from one of the nutrient companies. Pretty sure I've seen it on Amazon as well. I must admit to only using the bubble cloner as I am lazy. Change the water every 2 weeks. If I am serious about the cut I will usr rockwool plugs. I find them much faster and less to go wrong.

 

[howsitgrowin420]

Very good info guys. I'll look into the higher % h2o2, I only have the 3% and like you said it's unless.

I got thinking, I wonder if the neoprene pucks that hold the clones in the cloner have an infection of some sort? They are squishy and do hold some water, I ddidn't think of it until now but ewhen you said boil airstones, I got thinking I should boil the inserts. I'm going to do one more sterilization of the equipment today, including boiling the things that fit in the pot and I will use a strong chlorine mix to sterilize what doesn't fit in the pot. Wish me luck. If I don't have roots by my next day off, Wednesday I think, I will have to go pick up clones from the dispensary. I was really looking forward to growing this purple paralysis out, I hope the clones pull through

After every batch I fill my cloner with pretty dilute (sorry man, I just pour some in. maybe less than half a cup) clorox with about a gallon of water. The smell of bleach isn't too punchy, but you can definitely tell it is there. I splash that all around and let the pucks and baskets sit in it for a couple hours. I then thoroughly rinse everything with clean water, fill the cloner up with clean water, and squish all of the pucks a few times in the clean water. After that everything is put out to fully dry.

Before the next batch I'll usually wash everything except the pucks with dawn dish soap (non-antibacterial, but it probably doesn't matter) and dry it thoroughly. All tools are sterilized with rubbing alcohol before I begin.

This, along with more frequent water changes, has really prevented the rot problem that started creeping in and I've been pretty happy with the results in absence of rooting hormone and rooting nutrients.

 

[AlphaPhase]

I am only using the bubble cloner because I wanted to down size, my Aero cloner could hold like 36cuts but I ccan only flower 9 max now so it was a little over kill and took up a lot of room. It's been a while since I've used rock wool, but I am interested in the root riot plugs. I ordered a 20 pack and will see if I have any luck with those. Clones at my dispensary are 15 each, but I can get a mother plant for 45. The thing is if I get the mother plant and save money and just take my own clones from it, I don't know if they'll root with the luck I've had this month lol. I might be better off paying more for the rooted cuts but at the same time I'm stubborn. I really want to know what's going wrong, bleach and cleaning is just the band aid covering up the core problem. I'd really llike to know what the core problem is and fix that, so it's likely I'll just keep trying different things with clones until I figure out how to get them to root again and not rot.

I've always followed things by the books and kept things clean and simple, but still this rotting stem problem came and is overstating iit's welcome. I've heard about bennies like ewc tea combating the bad bacteria, I want to try it, but I first want to solve the problem with the sterile environment.

 

[AlphaPhase]

@howsitgrowin420 for sure cleaning is number one. This may be over kill but I'm going to to a boil of all pucks, airstones ect. Then a bleach, then a chlorine bath and then a rinse and hope this solves the problem, if not I think I have a super slime that may be unstoppable lol

 

[burgertime2010]

Very well put!
I'm always listening and learning, so forgive me for being nosey, but-
What's the dilution of your peroxide spray?
Would the use of that spray kill your bennies, or do you use something different as a soil drench for the sterilizing agent?
What do you use as a systemic insecticide?

the dilution rate I base on hearing. I simply add as little as possible until the spray has a bubbling sound after 10 seconds . For my root zone I use Dutch Masters Zone as a sterilizing agent and that will kill your bennies, the peroxide would as well. The Zone is really strong 1ml per gallon and stable so I prefer it to peroxide. As a systemic, I use Azamax.

 

[firsttimeARE]

I dont have a timer on my DIY aero cloner and I get that rotted stem from too much water spraying 24/7.

I just use straight water and have gotten roots in as little as 4 days with 90F water. During the winter my water is around 80F and rooting is a bit slower. It gets so warm due to running the pump 24/7.

I haven't killed a clone yet, no lie. I have been starting seeds this way as well.

 

[burgertime2010]

85F is ideal root zone temp from what I have read, and 75F is ideal above the surface. I use a clone dome because I like to take a lot of cuts and choose the best. I hear aerocloners work very fast, perhaps to fast to rot as easily? If it is working for you than proceed. Not sure what you are asking.