New DIY Nutrient Thread

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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
I've never tried it personally. Cropking also has a line (which i haven't tried either) of micro elements, and they let you tailor it if you're buying a bunch, but I don't know how good it is.

I can't really say. I just have small bags (never ending) of iron sulfate, sodium borate, manganese sulfate, and sodium molybdate.

A post 1982 penny is plated in copper and zinc on the inside. Just throw one into a tank of water and you have copperzinc water. You only need those elements at homeopathic levels anyway....

chandi said:
thanks church, switching back to my normal schedule after i noticed a little bit of tip curl after the 1:3:2.
what do you think of the trace elements combo? Seems to have everything without having to buy each one separately?
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jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
Is there any good reason to purchase chelated micro nutrients (besides iron)? I understand the concept, but I've never seen any proof.

A lifetimes supply is relatively cheap, but is there any measurable benefit?

- Jiji
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Iron is the only nutrient that has a good reason for being chelated. You only need it really if you want to mix iron into a+b stock.


jijiandfarmgang said:
Is there any good reason to purchase chelated micro nutrients (besides iron)? I understand the concept, but I've never seen any proof.

A lifetimes supply is relatively cheap, but is there any measurable benefit?

- Jiji
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L

LurchLurkin

Active Member
When using ready made micros I would ask:

Which specific chemicals did you mix? (So you can find out if it will be compatible with your A or B solution to keep precipitate from forming.)

If they just specify use x grams per L of 100x stock solution or something you'd be fine but you're trusting that they used high quality chemicals in the correct ratios.

The only benefit of chelated micros is that it allows them to become mobile in the plant whereas a lot of micros are traditionally immobile. I belive fulvic and fumic acid can chelate some elements but how well they work I'm not sure and if you're using larger amounts of micros (as in the ratios I borrowed from the former fatman5754 [My assumptions on why he used higher levels]). You might end up with excess useable micros.

Try it out on one plant though and who knows fulvic/fumic acid might be beneficial.
 
..BULLIT..

..BULLIT..

Active Member
LurchLurkin said:
When using ready made micros I would ask:

Which specific chemicals did you mix? (So you can find out if it will be compatible with your A or B solution to keep precipitate from forming.)

If they just specify use x grams per L of 100x stock solution or something you'd be fine but you're trusting that they used high quality chemicals in the correct ratios.

The only benefit of chelated micros is that it allows them to become mobile in the plant whereas a lot of micros are traditionally immobile. I belive fulvic and fumic acid can chelate some elements but how well they work I'm not sure and if you're using larger amounts of micros (as in the ratios I borrowed from the former fatman5754 [My assumptions on why he used higher levels]). You might end up with excess useable micros.

Try it out on one plant though and who knows fulvic/fumic acid might be beneficial.
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i couldn't find a better thread to ask a simple question, hope its not so dumb........ Iv got some 46-0-0 ureic nitrogen soluble , can i use it in hydroponics res?
it says its got 3% nitrogen as well. Thank u
 
L

LurchLurkin

Active Member
..BULLIT.. said:
i couldn't find a better thread to ask a simple question, hope its not so dumb........ Iv got some 46-0-0 ureic nitrogen soluble , can i use it in hydroponics res?
it says its got 3% nitrogen as well. Thank u
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Do you mean something like this? http://www.knoxfert.com/professional_brands/professional_golf/spec_sheets/6702909.pdf

Ok, short answer - NO.

Long answer, maybe.

Let's take a look at the Nitrogen cycle:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_gateway_pre_2011/greenworld/recyclingrev2.shtml

As we see, only nitrates are available for direct use by plants. Urea can be used, but only after it has been converted first into ammonia and then by bacteria such as rhizobium (they actually live in the root nodules) into nitrates.

The problem with this is that in a hydroponic reservoir you have perfect conditions for the bacteria to really get out of hand and depending on your aeration you can end up with root rot (pythium).

Now antibiotics are becoming a thing of the past, the new idea is probiotic. 10lb of your body right now is bacteria. There's so much beneficial bacteria on you that the 'bad' bacteria e.g. MRSA or the like can't even get a 'footing' since it's competing for resources.

Generally, in hydroponics, there isn't this kind of competition since resources are so vast and even if there is the bacteria ends up gumming things up. An exception would be bio buckets. They work fine with all the bacteria.

Except, you know, why go through the trouble? Well, you wouldn't have to deal with dirt per say. Also, the only benefits you get from bacteria are if you aren't providing enough nitrates. If you actually have adequate nitrate levels then the beneficial bacteria become merely parasites and can actually hurt your yield.

Also, your tap water probably already has monochloramine or chlorine in it in which case this will end up killing off all the bacteria anyway.

I do have this idea about a wick system though. Coat the inside and outside bottom of the pots in some home brewed microkote[utilizing food safe paint mixed with 100g/L cupric carbonate/hydroxide] so that the roots can't make it to the reservoir (all holes are filled with rope). Utilizing vermiculite, perlite, cocoa, worm castings, and alfalfa meal. I hypothesize that small doses of chlorine would not fare very well on the travel up the wick and so your nitrogen fixing bacteria would do fine to support some "hydro" growing low maintenance mothers while keeping the reservoir from having some sort of a bloom.
 
..BULLIT..

..BULLIT..

Active Member
LurchLurkin said:
Do you mean something like this? http://www.knoxfert.com/professional_brands/professional_golf/spec_sheets/6702909.pdf

Ok, short answer - NO.

Long answer, maybe.

Let's take a look at the Nitrogen cycle:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_gateway_pre_2011/greenworld/recyclingrev2.shtml

As we see, only nitrates are available for direct use by plants. Urea can be used, but only after it has been converted first into ammonia and then by bacteria such as rhizobium (they actually live in the root nodules) into nitrates.

The problem with this is that in a hydroponic reservoir you have perfect conditions for the bacteria to really get out of hand and depending on your aeration you can end up with root rot (pythium).

Now antibiotics are becoming a thing of the past, the new idea is probiotic. 10lb of your body right now is bacteria. There's so much beneficial bacteria on you that the 'bad' bacteria e.g. MRSA or the like can't even get a 'footing' since it's competing for resources.

Generally, in hydroponics, there isn't this kind of competition since resources are so vast and even if there is the bacteria ends up gumming things up. An exception would be bio buckets. They work fine with all the bacteria.

Except, you know, why go through the trouble? Well, you wouldn't have to deal with dirt per say. Also, the only benefits you get from bacteria are if you aren't providing enough nitrates. If you actually have adequate nitrate levels then the beneficial bacteria become merely parasites and can actually hurt your yield.

Also, your tap water probably already has monochloramine or chlorine in it in which case this will end up killing off all the bacteria anyway.

I do have this idea about a wick system though. Coat the inside and outside bottom of the pots in some home brewed microkote[utilizing food safe paint mixed with 100g/L cupric carbonate/hydroxide] so that the roots can't make it to the reservoir (all holes are filled with rope). Utilizing vermiculite, perlite, cocoa, worm castings, and alfalfa meal. I hypothesize that small doses of chlorine would not fare very well on the travel up the wick and so your nitrogen fixing bacteria would do fine to support some "hydro" growing low maintenance mothers while keeping the reservoir from having some sort of a bloom.
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yes but it says UREIC and not URIA?
 
L

LurchLurkin

Active Member
Most likely..no, not in hydro. Not unless you want to try and wage the good bacteria vs. the bad and only experience benefits if you're not providing enough nitrates. If you're competent enough to manage bacteria you're more than competent enough to provide enough nitrates. As such is the burden of the beauty of hydro and why soil is much more forgiving if yet less rewarding.
 
..BULLIT..

..BULLIT..

Active Member
LurchLurkin said:
Most likely..no, not in hydro. Not unless you want to try and wage the good bacteria vs. the bad and only experience benefits if you're not providing enough nitrates. If you're competent enough to manage bacteria you're more than competent enough to provide enough nitrates. As such is the burden of the beauty of hydro and why soil is much more forgiving if yet less rewarding.
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i don't use bennies ?
 
..BULLIT..

..BULLIT..

Active Member
LurchLurkin said:
What fertilizer are you using? Why do you want to add more nitrogen? Try adding small amounts of this: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xspectracide+stump+remove&_nkw=spectracide+stump+remover&_sacat=0

100% pure KNO3. This provides both useable nitrogen and potassium for your plants 8-)
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i use veg and bloom atm but im wanting to start using 100% nutrients so iv got more control , iv already got mono potassium phosphate for my P and K
and i have a box of this urea nitrogen in the cupboard, so i was wondering if i can use it?
 
chandi

chandi

Active Member
LurchLurkin said:
When using ready made micros I would ask:

Which specific chemicals did you mix? (So you can find out if it will be compatible with your A or B solution to keep precipitate from forming.)

If they just specify use x grams per L of 100x stock solution or something you'd be fine but you're trusting that they used high quality chemicals in the correct ratios.
Click to expand...
I got a free 50# bag of mono potasium phosphate and was thinking of doing a 2-part with some potasium sulphate and calnit. Would adding the micros as a separate 3rd part work?
Thanks
 
L

LurchLurkin

Active Member
Potassium Sulphate and Calcium Nitrate will precipitate so those need to be separate. Mono potassium phosphate I'm not sure about, I just used hydro buddy to check for me but you can use charts like this too:



As far as doing a three part with the micro's separate..yes that would work. Micros are always at low levels no matter what stage of the plant so as long as the manufacturer provided some guidelines on "x g per L" or something and you follow it and just add it as a separate concentrate you'll be fine.

If you could find out what's in it though you could just punch those values into hydrobuddy and see if it would work with your A or B solution.
 
chandi

chandi

Active Member
Thanks LL!
Haven't seen that chart before. Since i want to control the nitrogen level through the cycle i'm assuming mixing the mono potassium phosphate and calnit for one part isn't ideal. Which would require this to be a 4 part solution?
Going to spend some time with hydrobuddy and will post back with my possible recipe to make sure it's not ridiculous.
Thanks again.
 
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