Be Afraid ... VERY Afraid ...

ViRedd

New Member
Obama Speech:

'I come to Berlin as so many of my countrymen have come before. Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for President, but as a citizen -- a proud citizen of the United States, and a fellow citizen of the world.'

'People of Berlin -- people of the world -- this is our moment. This is our time.' Developing...


[FONT=ARIAL,VERDANA,HELVETICA][SIZE=+7]
[/SIZE][/FONT]
 

South Texas

Well-Known Member
Lesser of 2 evils. One, a fake, the other, a loose cannon. Take your pick. I'll go with the man that has balls.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
Heh, McCain's got no chance. He's just overmatched. Obama is smarter, understands the modern world and its problems better, is a vastly better orator, and best of all, he cares about more than just rich people and the big businesses. Nothing against rich folks (I'd like to be one) or big business (I'd like to own one), but they've fattened themselves up for eight years at the expense of everyone else, and it's time for the common man to get a break now.

Look at how presidential Obama is. It's like he was born for this. The oratory, the mannerisms, he's got that presidential aura. McCain waddles over to a golf cart and goes for a ride with the elder Bush, and together they look like a couple of retired old white guys. Yay, just what the world needs, an old stodgy white guy (again) to carry us into the....past?
 

shamegame

Well-Known Member
Obama is smarter, understands the modern world and its problems better, is a vastly better orator, and best of all, he cares about more than just rich people and the big businesses.
Where do people come up with this crap? Obama is a CFR / Neocon candidate. He is just as corrupt and in bed with big business as the next guy. Do people think because he isn't white that he is different?
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
headline stories from AP:
In Germany, Obama urges joint fight against terror

BERLIN - Before the largest crowd of his campaign, Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama on Thursday summoned Europeans and Americans together to "defeat terror and dry up the well of extremism that supports it" as surely as they conquered communism a generation ago.

"The walls between old allies on either side of the Atlantic cannot stand," Obama said, speaking not far from where the Berlin Wall once divided the city.

"The walls between the countries with the most and those with the least cannot stand. The walls between races and tribes, natives and immigrants, Christians and Muslims and Jews cannot stand," he said.

Obama said he was speaking as a citizen, not as a president, but the evening was awash in politics. His remarks inevitably invited comparison to historic speeches in the same city by Presidents John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, and he borrowed rhetoric from his own appeals to campaign audiences in the likes of Berlin, N.H., when he addressed a crowd in one of the great cities of Europe.

"People of Berlin, people of the world, this is our moment. This is our time," he said.

Obama's speech was the centerpiece of a fast-paced tour through Europe designed to reassure skeptical voters back home about his ability to lead the country and take a frayed cross-Atlantic alliance in a new direction after eight years of the Bush administration.

Republicans chafed at the media attention Obama's campaign-season trip has drawn. Presidential rival John McCain went to a German restaurant in swing-state Ohio, and said he'd like to deliver a speech in Germany, but as president not candidate.

In Die Welt, the German publication, Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-Mich., wrote: "No one knows which Obama will show. Will it be the ideological, left-wing Democratic primary candidate who vowed to 'end' the war rather than win it, or the Democratic nominee who dismisses the progressing coalition victory as a 'distraction'? Will it be the American populist who has told supporters in the United States that he will demand more from our allies in Europe and get it, or the liberal internationalist hell-bent on being liked in Europe's salons?"

Obama met earlier in the day with German Chancellor Angela Merkel for a discussion that ranged across the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, climate change, energy issues and more.

Knots of bystanders waited along Obama's motorcade route for him to pass. One man yelled out in English, "Yes, we can," the senator's campaign refrain, when he emerged from his car to enter his hotel.

Obama drew loud applause as he strode confidently across a large podium erected at the base of the Victory Column in Tiergarten Park in the heart of Berlin.

The crowd spilled away from the Column for blocks. Police spokesman Bernhard Schodrowski said the speech drew more than 200,000 people, more than double the estimated 75,000 Obama drew in Oregon this spring.

He drew loud applause when he talked of a world without nuclear weapons and again when he called for steps to counter climate change.

Obama mentioned Iraq, a war he has opposed from the start, only in passing. But in discussing Afghanistan, he said, "no one welcomes war. ... But my country and yours have a stake in seeing that NATO's first mission beyond Europe's borders is a success."

He referred repeatedly to the Berlin airlift, launched by the Allies 60 years ago when the Russians sought to isolate the Western part of the city. If they had succeeded, he said, communism would have marched across Europe.

"Where the last war had ended, another World War could have easily begun," the presidential candidate said.

Now, he said, the enemy is different but the need for an alliance is the same as the world stares down terrorism and the extremism that supports it. "This threat is real and we cannot shrink from our responsibility to combat it," he said.

He said Europeans sometimes view America as "part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right ..." And in America, "there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future."

He said both views miss the truth, "that Europeans today are bearing new burdens and taking more responsibility in critical parts of the world; and that just as American bases built in the last century still help to defend the security of this continent, so does our country still sacrifice greatly for freedom around the globe."

In any event, he said, there will always be differences.

"But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together. A change of leadership in Washington will not lift this burden. In this new century, Americans and Europeans alike will be required to do more, not less."


McCain visits German restaurant — in Ohio

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Republican presidential candidate John McCain had his own German experience Thursday — at a restaurant in Ohio. He asserted that he was happy to devote his time this week to touring the nation's heartland.

"I'd love to give a speech in Germany. But I'd much prefer to do it as president of the United States rather than as a candidate for president," McCain told reporters after a meal of bratwurst with local business leaders at Schmidt's Sausage Haus und Restaurant in Columbus' German Village neighborhood.

As Barack Obama delivered a high-profile speech in Berlin, McCain said he was focusing his attention this week on economic issues, including soaring food and fuel costs. He has been busy campaigning and raising funds in key battleground states like Ohio.

In what was clearly not a coincidence, McCain spoke with reporters shortly before Obama began his speech at Berlin's Victory Column.

At the same time, The Republican National Committee was running anti-Obama ads in Berlin, Pa., and other namesake villages in Wisconsin and New Hampshire.

McCain is trying hard to get attention during Obama's week abroad. He had planned to visit an offshore oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico on Wednesday, but rough seas leftover from Hurricane Dolly caused him to scrub that trip. He was to appear with famed cyclist Lance Armstrong later Thursday at a town-hall meeting here that is focused on cancer. And on Friday, he'll meet with the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan spiritual leader, in Aspen, Colo.

He said he regretted not being able to make the trip to the drilling rig, a visit intended to emphasize his support for lifting of the ban on offshore drilling. President Bush earlier this month rescinded an executive order reinforcing the congressional ban, but Congress must act as well for the moratorium on Outer Continental Shelf drilling to be abolished.

"I'm sorry Congress is gridlocked again on offshore drilling," McCain said. "When I'm president, we'll all sit down together and work this out."

On Europe, where Obama has been meeting with leaders, McCain said cultivating good relations with a new generation of European leaders was important . "A lot of these leaders are a lot more pro-American than their predecessors were," he said.

The Arizona senator defended his assertions that Obama was more interested in winning a campaign than winning the war in Iraq. Democrats have suggested McCain went overboard, implying that the Illinois Democrat would put the nation's children at jeopardy for political reasons.

"All of us care about our children," McCain said. "I stand by my comments."

McCain has complained that Obama's support for a fixed timetable to withdraw troops ignores recent progress made under President Bush's troop buildup.

"It's clear Sen. Obama doesn't understand what's at stake here. It's pretty obvious he's taken this position to secure the nomination of his party."

Of Friday's meeting with the Dalai Lama in Colorado, McCain called the Tibetan spiritual leader "a transcendent national role-model."

"I have been a great admirer of the Dalai Lama," said McCain, a sharp critic of the Chinese crackdown in the Tibetan region.

Ohio is a key swing state. Recent polls have suggested a close contest between Obama and McCain. President Bush narrowly defeated Democrat John Kerry here in 2004, and some Democrats have suggested that voting irregularities that favored Republicans helped swing the election Bush's way.

German Village is in the 15th congressional district, held by Republican Rep. Deborah Pryce. It encompasses most of the city of Columbus and its southern and western suburbs. Pryce won in the last congressional election by a narrow margin.

Before settling down to lunch, McCain bounded through the crowded restaurant shaking hands and posing for photographs with lunchtime patrons.

He was overheard remarking on the "great sausages here." The restaurant's specialties are "Bahama Mama" bratwurst and cream puffs.

"Can we have a couple of cream puffs to go, too?" he asked.

Poster's Comment:
One actually Goes to Germany, the Other Goes to a German Restarant.
One is a Statesman, the Other is a phoney.
One Puts forth an effort to polish the Image of the United States, the other could give a shit less about the image of the United States.
 

ccodiane

New Member
Obama is smarter, understands the modern world and its problems better, is a vastly better orator, and best of all, he cares about more than just rich people and the big businesses.

Look at how presidential obama is. It's like he was born for this. The oratory, the mannerisms, he's got that presidential aura.

***rimshot***

heh,
 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
Obama is smarter, understands the modern world and its problems better, is a vastly better orator, and best of all, he cares about more than just rich people and the big businesses.
Where do people come up with this crap? Obama is a CFR / Neocon candidate. He is just as corrupt and in bed with big business as the next guy. Do people think because he isn't white that he is different?
They "believe" and they "hope". They pay no attention to how he has voted in the Senate and refuse to acknowledge his voting record. They are just a guilty as those that voted for Bush because they thought he's a "nice guy" or more of a "real person" than Gore or Kerry. They're going to vote for Obama because he speaks well and is "presidential material" not because he voted one way or another. These are the same people who "believe" he's anti-war and will ignore his most recent statement about redeployment of more troops to Afghanistan to comabt the Taliban (read: not OBL).
 
Last edited:

medicineman

New Member
They "believe" and they "hope". They pay no attention to how he has voted in the Senate and refuse to acknowledge his voting record.

Yup, that about sums it up allright, genious.
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
One Puts forth an effort to polish the Image of the United States, the other could give a shit less about the image of the United States.
image without substance, i guess that's what america wants. while one candidate speaks to the american people, the other campaigns on an entirely different continent. while one spouts words designed to soothe the masses, the other utters the reality of the situation. while one is adored as the media's darling, the other is painted with a broad brush as the successor to one of the least popular administrations in recent history. it's all quite amusing and completely predictable.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
About the only thing McCain differed with Bush on is, McCain wanted to send more troops into Iraq. (And leave none in Afghanistan to fight Osama? Where would all those troops have come from anyway?) Otherwise, they're extremely similar. McCain hasn't gotten busted for all the dishonesty-related stuff, but that's probably just because he was never part of Bush's inner circle.

Riding around with elder Bush on that golf cart, that looked about right to me, a couple of retired old men farting around and playing golf. Well, I guess McCain isn't quite retired yet, but November's coming fast, and I'm sure elder Bush will save him a seat on the golf cart, and they can ride off into the sunset while the rest of us tackle repairing the damage the Republican Party has done to this country and our image around the world.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, one big beef I have with McCain is this: he has never been willing to define 'victory', as it pertains to Iraq. How can we elect a commander in chief who doesn't know what victory is? Why will he not define what he means by victory? That's one huge and important thing a president is expected to do during a conflict: define the victory conditions, so the troops themselves know when victory has been achieved and their families then know when the troops will be able to come home.

I mean, since it's undefined, how do we know we didn't achieve victory four or five years ago? Maybe we did. In fact, why not assume we have achieved victory and get out now? That way, McCain and Bush won't have to figure out what victory means, because clearly they have no clue.
 
Last edited:

shamegame

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, one big beef I have with McCain is this: he has never been willing to define 'victory', as it pertains to Iraq. How can we elect a commander in chief who doesn't know what victory is? Why will he not define what he means by victory? That's one huge and important thing a president is expected to do during a conflict: define the victory conditions, so the troops themselves know when victory has been achieved and their families then know when the troops will be able to come home.

I mean, since it's undefined, how do we know we didn't achieve victory four or five years ago? Maybe we did. In fact, why not assume we have achieved victory and get out now? That way, McCain and Bush won't have to figure out what victory means, because clearly they have no clue.
Obama will nto be able to remove troops from Iraq any sooner than McCain. Bush and Co.'s legacy will go on for years...and years...and years.
 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
And leave none in Afghanistan to fight Osama?
OBL is directing the war effort in Afghanistan against us now? Could you provide a link please? Last I knew, I thought our troops were fighting the Taliban w/ a serving of OBL on the side.
 

Bongulator

Well-Known Member
Saw some guy with a bunch of stars on his shoulders on CNN saying something about bin Laden being in the border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan. You have info to the contrary? If so, I'm sure people would like to know, so please go tell them. As to whether he's calling the shots or the Taliban is, or they make decisions jointly, or whatever: does that matter? They're still the enemy, and they still deserve to be brought to justice, or killed, whichever is more expedient.

It's like playing detective. Last anyone knows, bin Laden was in the border area. Maybe he's not there now, maybe he is. Probably he is. It's easier to hide a 6'6" Muslim with tubes and machines connected to him in mountainous areas full of caves than it would be to hide him anywhere populated. But either way, that's the last info we have and the Taliban is *definitely* there, and they were his protectors, so that's where we start. Who is giving the orders is irrelevant. All that's really relevant is that whoever is giving the orders is still breathing.
 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
As to whether he's calling the shots or the Taliban is, or they make decisions jointly, or whatever: does that matter? They're still the enemy, and they still deserve to be brought to justice, or killed, whichever is more expedient.
It does matter IMO. The last time we toppled a regime in the Middle East we ended up in a hostage situation years later. We've since toppled 2 more regimes. Want to know more? Allow me to suggest an excellent, and rather sobering, read...
Amazon.com: Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire: Chalmers Johnson: Books

As Zen posted in another thread...These folks in the Middle East have loooong memories.They don't forget. In fact, I have a friend on another forum who is British. He traveled once to the Middle East and he told me that he had people blurt out "Sykes-Picot" and "Balfour" to him when they found that he was British. Most Americans wouldn't even know what that meant. I do.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Saw some guy with a bunch of stars on his shoulders on CNN saying something about bin Laden being in the border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan. You have info to the contrary? If so, I'm sure people would like to know, so please go tell them. As to whether he's calling the shots or the Taliban is, or they make decisions jointly, or whatever: does that matter? They're still the enemy, and they still deserve to be brought to justice, or killed, whichever is more expedient.
Why are the Taliban and Pashtun our enemies? Because their ways are diametrically opposed to ours? Or was it all those Afghanis on the planes that fateful September day? Or is it for having the balls and the gumption to tell us, the U.S., that we'd have to sort things out ourselves after bin Laden stuck with them through the entire Russian 'thing' and we suddenly wanted him? How does that make them our enemy?
It's like playing detective. Last anyone knows, bin Laden was in the border area. Maybe he's not there now, maybe he is. Probably he is. It's easier to hide a 6'6" Muslim with tubes and machines connected to him in mountainous areas full of caves than it would be to hide him anywhere populated. But either way, that's the last info we have and the Taliban is *definitely* there, and they were his protectors, so that's where we start. Who is giving the orders is irrelevant. All that's really relevant is that whoever is giving the orders is still breathing.
Then if that's the case, you might want to learn a little more. bin Laden gives orders to al Quaida operatives, not the Taliban. Of course, considering their previous successes what with our backing (money + weapons + training) and his stick-to-it-iveness they got those pesky Reds right outta their hair, and they'll probably succeed getting us outta their hair, too, but the real point is that maybe they trust bin Laden just a little more than they trust us. And maybe it's that way for good reason. ;)
 
Top