Unions arent bad

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Totally agree.



All i can say is WOW ! Unions stiffle by not allowing innovation to replace workers,where do you come up with that at ? Im 100% sure you've never stepped one foot inside a Ford factory,at Ford Motors humans dont even do the meaningless job of fork lift operators anymore,forklifts have been replaced with GPS guided Robotic wireless forklifts,what you claim about unions stopping technology in the workforce is absolutely backwards.

Due to non union companies being able to pay workers whatever they feel like union manufacturers have been forced to use as much technology & robotics as possible in order to compete with non union sub standard wages.

Union manufacturers & construction contractors are at the forefront of the use of technology,robotics & automation in the workplace.

Your claim of unions holding back technology is baseless & unfounded,nothing can stop technology in the workplace.
You apparently don't know Just In Time, which was first implemented by Toyota, was come up by Henry Ford before unions took over.

American car companies would be dominating globally had inneficient inventory holding methods been abandoned in place of his vision of a stream lined supply chain.
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
You apparently don't know Just In Time, which was first implemented by Toyota, was come up by Henry Ford before unions took over.

American car companies would be dominating globally had inneficient inventory holding methods been abandoned in place of his vision of a stream lined supply chain.
That may be true & it sounds very believable & sounds like something Henry Ford would of envisioned but i dont know enough about Fords just in time thinking back in the early 1900's to make a comment.

However i am very aware of the fuked up trade policies the United States agrees to regarding the export of our American made cars,im positive trade politics have far more negative effects on the automobile industry exporting its products than any union issues.

If the tarrifs & taxes were fair twords the auto market we'd still dominate the globe.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
That may be true & it sounds very believable & sounds like something Henry Ford would of envisioned but i dont know enough about Fords just in time thinking back in the early 1900's to make a comment.

However i am very aware of the fuked up trade policies the United States agrees to regarding the export of our American made cars,im positive trade politics have far more negative effects on the automobile industry exporting its products than any union issues.

If the tarrifs & taxes were fair twords the auto market we'd still dominate the globe.
At the conclusion of the 1920-1921 postwar slump, the Ford Motor Company was leaner and more competitive. For example, during the economically favorable months of 1919, Ford employed 15 workers per completed car per day. When the Highland Park Plant reopened in February 1921 after their downsizing, nine workers were employed per completed car per day. This improvement was accomplished by rehiring fewer workers and speeding up the line. Henry Ford pointed to his increased productivity as one more argument against the bankers. “If we had borrowed,” he said, “we should not have been under the necessity of finding methods to cheapen production” (Lacey, 1986, p. 286).

Ernest Kanzler and Henry Ford made a substantial contribution to what we refer to today as JIT production methods.
That explains why Ford's JIT was crowded out by unions.

http://www.shmula.com/fords-contribution-to-just-in-time/371/
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
That explains why Ford's JIT was crowded out by unions.

http://www.shmula.com/fords-contribution-to-just-in-time/371/
STFU
Or point out anything about Unions crowding out JIT

Kanzler’s JIT method took an unusual approach in delivering cars to dealers during the winter of 1920-1921. Approximately 6,000 Ford dealers received more cars than they ordered. Along with these extra cars was a delivery of an excessive amount of spare parts. In those days, a Ford dealer’s franchise required dealers to pay in full upon delivery for all cars and spare parts received. While a few dealers refused to pay for cars and parts they did not order or could not sell, most of the dealers borrowed money locally and paid in full. Obviously they wanted to retain their Ford dealer’s franchise. As a result, the Ford Motor Company reduced their excessive inventory of cars and spare parts and subsequently improved their critical cashflow position:
Back in Highland Park, meanwhile, the company had unilaterally changed its own schedule of payments to suppliers from 60 to 90 days, and had also used the generally depressed state of the market to cut its offer prices on raw materials and ready-made parts to the bone. By paying only a skeleton staff of executives and despatchers at Highland Park through the month of January, costs were reduced still further, and by the spring of 1921 Henry Ford could boast that he had paid off all his debts. He had an additional cash surplus in hand of no less than $20 million. Best of all, he had achieved this miracle without borrowing a penny from the bank. As they heard the news, 6,000 or so people around the country knew that they had done the borrowing for him (Lacey, 1986, p. 286).
At the conclusion of the 1920-1921 postwar slump, the Ford Motor Company was leaner and more competitive. For example, during the economically favorable months of 1919, Ford employed 15 workers per completed car per day. When the Highland Park Plant reopened in February 1921 after their downsizing, nine workers were employed per completed car per day. This improvement was accomplished by rehiring fewer workers and speeding up the line. Henry Ford pointed to his increased productivity as one more argument against the bankers. “If we had borrowed,” he said, “we should not have been under the necessity of finding methods to cheapen production” (Lacey, 1986, p. 286
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Diverging from Ford's wage motive, Ohno required Toyota plant workers to manage several processes at once. This transition, like the implementation of the kanban system, took time to test, adapt, and roll out within Toyota's manufacturing facilities.

It also met resistance from workers who felt threatened by potential downsizing, a reality Ohno reflectively acknowledged would have made the Toyota Production System incompatible with American labor unions of that time.

.....

Unions are communist.

http://www.inboundlogistics.com/cms/article/the-evolution-of-inbound-logistics-the-ford-and-toyota-legacy-origin-of-the-species/
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Diverging from Ford's wage motive, Ohno required Toyota plant workers to manage several processes at once. This transition, like the implementation of the kanban system, took time to test, adapt, and roll out within Toyota's manufacturing facilities.

It also met resistance from workers who felt threatened by potential downsizing, a reality Ohno reflectively acknowledged would have made the Toyota Production System incompatible with American labor unions of that time.

.....

Unions are communist.

http://www.inboundlogistics.com/cms/article/the-evolution-of-inbound-logistics-the-ford-and-toyota-legacy-origin-of-the-species/
1 All big companies use JIT, Kanban and 5s
2 Toyota workers have been unionized since WW2

ETA
thats the last link of yours I follow
It says nothing about unions
your this close <> to joining the list
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Japan is a different culture. They aren't as individualistic and more community oriented. It's not fair to compare what other countries do.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Yet you keep saying Unions are communist when their goal is the financial well being of it's member workers
That's the goal, not reality. Capitalism prevents such. But communism isn't the answer, neither is a trying to implement it partially with unions.

Like many have said, unions once had their place. Because of technology, that ship long sailed away.
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
That explains why Ford's JIT was crowded out by unions.

http://www.shmula.com/fords-contribution-to-just-in-time/371/
Nobody can deny Henry Fords genious but at the same time Mr Ford & his family were working assembly line workers to death,literally,the speed of the assembly lines & deplorably hot & general unsafe work areas caused countless line workers to drop dead trying to keep up with the frantic pace the assembly line was sped up to.

Ford,Gm,Hudson,Packard ect were some of the worst jobs in America & according to my father taking a job at one of the big 3 was a guys last resort,lets not forget that the Uaw was founded over working conditions more than low pay.

At a time when most Americans were lucky to have any job at all thousands of GM workers chose loosing everything they owned & striking instead of working,lets also never forget the automakers hiring Pinkerton Security thugs to beat strikers within an inch of their lives,in quite a few cases men were beaten to death & shot & stabbed to death,all endorsed by Henry Ford & the other auto big shots.

On an unrelated note ive spent time in a Ford family members sprawling estate while my union company replaced the copper & spanish tile on the roof,while the family were very nice 2 things struck me in a bad way & i'll never forget.

Im a white man but since marrying a true Lebanese woman 30 yrs ago ive become hyper sensitive to subtle acts of innocent looking racisim,the ford estate has a 10 car garage with italian marble floors & i'll never forget the black servant woman down on her hands & knees hand scrubbing the Ford family garage floor.

Henry Ford was a genious but he was also a monster when it came to human rights,civil rights & most of all workers rights.
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
That's the goal, not reality. Capitalism prevents such. But communism isn't the answer, neither is a trying to implement it partially with unions.

Like many have said, unions once had their place. Because of technology, that ship long sailed away.
Not only your anti union posts but all the anti union posts ive read in this thread are grabbing at straws,the anti union posts remind me of a well known anti union video that all new hires at Wallmart & a few other places like cosco were made to watch.

Unions are bad because they hate old people,unions are bad because they charge union dues,unions are bad because they eat your children,all nonsense posting with ZERO factual information,only speculation & personal opinion,for me personally i like to form my opinion after ive learned the facts on both sides of the coin & ive seen very little of that type of informed posting on the anti union side of this debate.

Welcome to Costco , I Love you , Welcome to Costco , I Love you .
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
Japan is a different culture. They aren't as individualistic and more community oriented. It's not fair to compare what other countries do.
We live in a globalized economy,if your not basing your work ethic vs competing countries work ethics your business will close its doors very soon.

As for Japan ive been there & the whole famy bit isnt how it is,the japanese are just shorter Americans with prettier woman & bad teeth,they are some of the most materialistic people ive ever met.

When i was in Africa working on a US Embassy those workers would beat a famy member in the head with a brick over the 25 cents an hour we paid them.

In Saudi Arabia the workers cleared by the embassy were the laziest loafers ever,Americans work harder than every forigen country ive worked in with the exception of Mexico.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
We live in a globalized economy,if your not basing your work ethic vs competing countries work ethics your business will close its doors very soon.

As for Japan ive been there & the whole famy bit isnt how it is,the japanese are just shorter Americans with prettier woman & bad teeth,they are some of the most materialistic people ive ever met.

When i was in Africa working on a US Embassy those workers would beat a famy member in the head with a brick over the 25 cents an hour we paid them.

In Saudi Arabia the workers cleared by the embassy were the laziest loafers ever,Americans work harder than every forigen country ive worked in with the exception of Mexico.
Work smarter,not harder, Scrooge McDuck.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Nobody can deny Henry Fords genious but at the same time Mr Ford & his family were working assembly line workers to death,literally,the speed of the assembly lines & deplorably hot & general unsafe work areas caused countless line workers to drop dead trying to keep up with the frantic pace the assembly line was sped up to.

.
My Uncle Angelo, Tony, Carl and Louis all died at their jobs.
Different times back then but not better
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
My Uncle Angelo, Tony, Carl and Louis all died at their jobs.
Different times back then but not better
That sucks but sadly those harsh working conditions that killed your forefathers are rapidly approaching the American workforce & workers are doing nothing to help their own job stability or working conditions.

This isnt the 1st union thread we've had at RIU since i joined , i looked back thru some of them & they are all the same,the anti union members all think unions are bad for America but non can articulate why they say unions are a bad thing.

Thread after thread they hate unions but cant post any facts showing how unions hurt workers or the economy,but still they hate unions,its good to see there is still a few members who haven't absorbed the anti union drool they've been spoon fed by the media & their employers.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
That sucks but sadly those harsh working conditions that killed your forefathers are rapidly approaching the American workforce & workers are doing nothing to help their own job stability or working conditions.

This isnt the 1st union thread we've had at RIU since i joined , i looked back thru some of them & they are all the same,the anti union members all think unions are bad for America but non can articulate why they say unions are a bad thing.

Thread after thread they hate unions but cant post any facts showing how unions hurt workers or the economy,but still they hate unions,its good to see there is still a few members who haven't absorbed the anti union drool they've been spoon fed by the media & their employers.
Because most of the anti union people really don't know why they hate unions.
But the Republicans hate them so they should as well
 
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