How to Legalize Cannabis!

blazin waffles

Well-Known Member
It is just amazing to me how propaganda*sp can jade a nation for so long!!!
It's on the way and i really don't think it's that far in the future.

:peace:
 

McLovin420

Well-Known Member
There are only 2 things that going to keep America from going the way of the roman empire. 1st Americans waking up & telling politicians to stop stealing & spending our money to buy votes. Which is never going to happen because their are just to many people that think the government & tax payers are suppose to support them. Universal health care(government health care) is a prime example of that. With so many government agencies screwed up, look no farther than government schools, & people are begging for government heath care. Someone please tell me the logic behind that one. Government is the problem. 2nd & the most likely is the FAIR TAX. With it you couldn't beat all the good jobs with a stick. If you haven't heard of it please check it out.

VV California & Michigan are having hard times because they have high taxes. Hell Toyota just pulled out of building a plant that produces the Prius in California & moved it to Mississippi because of the tax rates. America has the second highest corporate tax in the world & we wonder why American companies are leaving.

On the subject at hand I say let the free market decide don't use government to "level" the playing field. I'll take my constitutional rights raw please without a side of political bs. It'll be like alcohol, the masses will smoke their bud light & a far few will smoke micro brews. Let me have a choice don't force me to buy from this guy when I want it from that guy.

The only way it's going to become legal is like VV said. Stay in their face about it. Remember they work for us & remind them of that fact. If they block do everything with in your power to get the bastard voted out next time. If everyone in this country that smokes stood up with our many voice & said we've had it & we are not going to take it anymore shit would change. Most people are to busy getting watching american idol or to worrying about how they can force their beliefs on you.

Sorry guys I get carried away sometimes. Remember if your not outraged your not paying attention.:joint:
 
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Solo08

Well-Known Member
have you ever heard of "norml". its actually a program that works in washington d.c. thats trying to get it legal. thats the website link below. theres also a book out explaining everything about marijuana and the guy talks in detail and explains very thoroughly about why marijuana should be legal. the book is actually called "why marijuana should be legal" and heres a link for that on amazon.

Amazon.com: Why Marijuana Should Be Legal: Ed Rosenthal, Steve Kubby, S. Newhart: Books

Marijuana Law Reform - NORML
 

4maggio

Well-Known Member
VV California & Michigan are having hard times because they have high taxes. Hell Toyota just pulled out of building a plant that produces the Prius in California & moved it to Mississippi because of the tax rates. America has the second highest corporate tax in the world & we wonder why American companies are leaving.

>>>Were is the 2nd highest corp tax nfo coming from, McL?
I was into foregin exchange for some time and generally, the coutries with the highest exchange rates have the highest tax bases.
Money, in general, is more valuable on the world market because of the taxes it represents
.

Who has the most valuable money? I think it is Englands' pound.
I spent 6 months in Portsmouth, UK and taxes run rampnet.
At the time (1982) a HarleyDavison Sotail custom cost: $9,200 in the USA (I had just bought one 2 months b4 the assignment started.)
While was
there, I went to the HD dealer (XXX something or another) and the same bike was $13,000.. something about EU taxes...
That was a long time ago, I know, but the exchange rate is highr now then it was then.


On the subject at hand I say let the free market decide don't use government to "level" the playing field. I'll take my constitutional rights raw please without a side of political bs. It'll be like alcohol, the masses will smoke their bud light & a far few will smoke micro brews. Let me have a choice don't force me to buy from this guy when I want it from that guy.


The BS is what it is all about McL.. WO it the politacal BS (backhanded promises) those empty promises they make b4 the elections might be fulfilled.

The only way it's going to become legal is like VV said. Stay in their face about it. Remember they work for us & remind them of that fact. If they block do everything with in your power to get the bastard voted out next time. If everyone in this country that smokes stood up with our many voice & said we've had it & we are not going to take it anymore shit would change. Most people are to busy getting watching american idol or to worrying about how they can force their beliefs on you.

Agreed.. but a there is a long haul to go.

Sorry guys I get carried away sometimes. Remember if your not outraged your not paying attention.:joint:
Hey McL.. I know a bout the 'carried away' part.. I think it has something to do with being buzzed! LOL!!!! Me too.

Sorry, I hit the wrong button b4 I was ready....

But for y'all in England..

I'm betting the queen doesn't get high (on illegal drugs anyway). So her chances of being sympathetic is nil.
your best bet is to get one of the princes (#1) onto the growing experience..
Then you'll have a good chance, when the queen becomes the king (figurativly, of course...LOL!!!!)

Hey y'all at the Royal Oak east of pourtsmouth on the bay, (hey, barclay L, Roz, etc.) cheers.. hope all is well...
 
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McLovin420

Well-Known Member
Were is the 2nd highest corp tax nfo coming from, McL?
Japan has a total corporate tax rate of 39.54 The US's is 39.27
The Tax Foundation - U.S. States Lead the World in High Corporate Taxes

When compared to other OECD countries:
24 U.S. states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than top-ranked Japan.
32 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than third-ranked Germany.
46 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than fourth-ranked Canada.
All 50 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than fifth-ranked France.

The FAIR TAX would eliminate corporate taxes. With no taxes on business companies would flock to the US. The FAIR TAX would also do away with all pay roll taxes, capital gains taxes & death taxes. I don't know about you but the thought of keeping more of my money is a very nice thought indeed.

At the time (1982) a HarleyDavison Sotail custom cost: $9,200 in the USA (I had just bought one 2 months b4 the assignment started.)
While was there, I went to the HD dealer (XXX something or another) and the same bike was $13,000.. something about EU taxes...
You have to remember tariff taxes. You have to pay more for products made outside the country.

The BS is what it is all about McL.. WO it the politacal BS (backhanded promises) those empty promises they make b4 the elections might be fulfilled.
This is why we have to confront them about their bs. We put them in office & we can just as easily send someone else. I think the biggest problem is our school system. Your taught just enough to be a good little citizen. Do your kids & the world a favor & send your children to private school. Many years from now when people are discussing what caused the break up of the USA teachers unions & government schools will shoulder a large portion of the blame. If we let government have our health care it's the beginning of the end for our freedom.

Government should fear it's citizens not the other way around.:cuss:

Contact your reps today. The only way it's going to change is for the people to force them & if you sit quietly in your room your part of the problem. Wake up & become part of the solution.
 
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VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Interesting , I guess I really haven't made my self clear here. To begin with I am a member of NORML and ASA. I have a fair idea of some of what is going on, I have heard Ethan Nedelmen in person and seen Howard Woolridge at a couple of locations. Common thought train are whether to get politicians to change law at the federal level or state level. And in another ten or twenty years that might happen.
If, you can raise 1/4 million, the amount needed to begin a successful petition drive in my state, you just bypass the politicians and put it on the ballot for the voters to decide. I do hope that California and Oregon are successful with the petition drives, unless a lot of folks get busy collecting signatures it ain't gonna happen, and the way I am reading it Jack and his group have just about shot their wad.
I read a press release today that said 57% of adults have tried Marijuana at some point in their lives, the majority know it is less dangerous than alcohol. AND if you can show them what is in it for them, they will sign your petition. You would just have to show the research that backs up what you say. Being the goal oriented type, you set a 5 year goal, "We expect the 'sintax revenue to be at least $xxx,xxx,xxx. If at the five year mark the goal has been met or exceeded the sintax gets cut in half. And at 10 years, if we have acheived our gaol of $x,xxx,xxx,xxx. then the sintax goes away. We would like to get the budgets back in balance, we know if you give the politicians a income source with no end, they will spend it like there is no end."
And, just to make sure we will have a clear majority, you also freeze the taxes on tobacco and alcohol at current levels, the folks that drink and smoke are tired of being the whipping boys for the budget woes, which are caused to at least some extent by our drug laws.
I have thought about this for longer than 10 minutes. I know what the numbers work out like, and they are way understated, still would wipe out the deficit for the state of Michigan, even if it is the high tax rate on corporations that caused the problem. Funny the co's say its the high wages. Believe me for Michigan it is the decline of American made car sales, which can be coorrelated to the increase in prison population, a million less cars sold, a million more people in prison. They aren't buying many cars.
Don't fugg with the 'government' go to the people. VV
 
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4maggio

Well-Known Member
High VV...

I make light.. because I've been in the game for 45 years and am loosing hope, or at least, loosing sight of any leaglization. Sorry.

Thanks for the back up data on corporate taxes..
I was going to overall public taxation... and exchange rates.

You make a good argument.. The won't let me rep you again.. say I have to spread it 'around'.. not sure how much 'around' is though.

Go NORMAL...:joint::joint:
 

McLovin420

Well-Known Member
And, just to make sure we will have a clear majority, you also freeze the taxes on tobacco and alcohol at current levels, the folks that drink and smoke are tired of being the whipping boys for the budget woes, which are caused to at least some extent by our drug laws.
I have to disagree here man I think the reason taxes are so high on alcohol & tobacco is because politicians know people will continue to pay. Plus they know the general public doesn't care as long as it's not them & it's for education.

I'm not saying the high corporate tax rate is Michigan only problem but it is certainly a major player.

A large portion of the problem the automotive industry is labor unions. Plus they don't make quality cars anymore. Why buy a Ford car that does good to get 150,000 when I can buy a Toyota or Honda that'll go 300,000 & keep its value for longer.

AS far as legalization it sounds like you know a bit more than I about the process. Sure I call & email my reps. about it a few times a year but I'm going to do more. For all your hard work I say thanks brother. You inspire me to be more involved. This buds for you VV:joint:
 

blazin waffles

Well-Known Member
I have to disagree here man I think the reason taxes are so high on alcohol & tobacco is because politicians know people will continue to pay. Plus they know the general public doesn't care as long as it's not them & it's for education.
Sin tax right?
I agree, taxes are high b/c we'll pay them.......just like income tax.....we'll pay them, not right of them but we do it anyways. But there are so mayny taxes we don't see. 35 cents a gallon of gas or some shit like that, for roads. Smokes, Alcohol, and gambling is where florida gets most funding from school.

Honestly we need to spread our tax dollars more appropriately. I mean if they actually used income tax to pay for schooling, roads, environment we might get some where! Billions of dollars that go straight into the pockets of the bankers.

Sad really.:cry:

:peace:
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
Oh I certainly agree that is the reason they keep raising the taxes on tobacco and alcohol. My point in doing this is simple. Name the lobbies against Marijuana legalization. Now write a bill that two of those lobbies would have to support?? It would be a little hard for the liqour industry and the tobacco industry to come out against a bill that is in the interest of their customers, don't you think.
And the taxes paid by the smokers and drinkers pays for the war on drugs, that is what they are tired of, their taxes keep raising, it is a regressive tax. What is needed is fiscal responsabilty on the part of the legislature. It is not a good use of our tax dollars to continue this stupid war, they don't put the drugs in jail, and they can't keep them out of the jails. Oh yeah, they are winning. Just something to think about. I am done defending. VV
't
 

blazin waffles

Well-Known Member
And the taxes paid by the smokers and drinkers pays for the war on drugs, that is what they are tired of, their taxes keep raising, it is a regressive tax. What is needed is fiscal responsabilty on the part of the legislature
That clears it up!!!!!

A common enemy between foes causes an alliance? Makes sense.....we did it Afgahnistan*sp against the Russians..........wait......bad example but you get the idea!

Marlboro and Camel would make a shit ton off of legal weed! They have all the tools and space already! I'm sure as soon as it's legal there will be Packs on the shelves full of joints.

:peace:
 

4maggio

Well-Known Member
I just saw on tv that bush sighned a federal bill that would decriminalize posession of 100gr of MJ.

Is that a start!? I know that it still has to pass, what the congress/senate.. one of them.. and AHs being AHs, will probably axe it.

This is a first!? yes? or did I miss it prviously when I wasn't paying attention in the 60s, 70, and 80s? LOL!!:joint:
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Support states rights. The best thing for legalization right now is medical marijuana. If we continue to make it a states rights issue and fight on the local level the fed will have to back down and let the states decide. I support this initiative, SAFER - Home they were successful at making 1 OZ of pot legal to carry in the Denver, Boulder, Colorado Springs area. It's a political statement if local law enforcement does not enforce these laws the fed will have to re-write their own. Mason is getting lots of press and part of what he is doing is killing propaganda and uncovering the hippocracy of marijuana laws. Grassroots bottom-up local movements such as these are our best chance right now. So if you really want to change pot laws stand up for it in you local town/state.
 

McLovin420

Well-Known Member
Oh I certainly agree that is the reason they keep raising the taxes on tobacco and alcohol. My point in doing this is simple. Name the lobbies against Marijuana legalization. Now write a bill that two of those lobbies would have to support?? It would be a little hard for the liqour industry and the tobacco industry to come out against a bill that is in the interest of their customers, don't you think.
And the taxes paid by the smokers and drinkers pays for the war on drugs, that is what they are tired of, their taxes keep raising, it is a regressive tax. What is needed is fiscal responsabilty on the part of the legislature. It is not a good use of our tax dollars to continue this stupid war, they don't put the drugs in jail, and they can't keep them out of the jails. Oh yeah, they are winning. Just something to think about. I am done defending. VV
't
I agree man but why are you against letting big corporations in on the action? In the long run it's only beneficial to use the consumer to have more competition. They have tools in place to begin widespread distribution. It would give farmers that have been put out of business by all this anti smoking crap a way to support themselves. I know in my state their has been a few farms go under because they can't make money on tobacco. The way to kill any market is to regulate it to death.

I guess what I'm trying to say is just because you don't agree with Camel selling weed don't prevent someone who may smoke cigs from smoking thier favrite brand in both.I'm sure sombody somewhere wants a pack of camel lefties or marlboro greens.:blsmoke: Remember the whole reason weed is illegal right now is because someone pushed their views & beliefs on us. We need big corporations because they have big money & big connections. Would big tobacco really support a bill that writes them out of the profits? No.
 

imtylerdammit

Well-Known Member
If pot were legal im sure many people would start there own grows, but not everyone would obviously! So people would still be wheelin and dealin, not to mention the government would no doubt tax its sale somehow. Hardcore dealers would still make money because they would just grow the biggest and best strains and have bud thats better then anyone elses.

Small time dealers would be the only people losing money but, most small time dealers already have jobs on the side.

The legalization of marijuana shouldnt be about money to stoners like you and me, it should be about being able to smoke and grow all day everyday without having to hide your stash or worry about prosecution. Screw profit, let the government worry about all that.
 

VictorVIcious

Well-Known Member
I agree man but why are you against letting big corporations in on the action? In the long run it's only beneficial to use the consumer to have more competition. They have tools in place to begin widespread distribution.
Who the hell needs wide spread distribution. If it was legal I could sell all I grow without leaving my neighborhood. Oh yeah, I see, big companies encourage competition. Do camel and marlboro growing medical in california, they don't seem to need them.


It would give farmers that have been put out of business by all this anti smoking crap a way to support themselves. I know in my state their has been a few farms go under because they can't make money on tobacco. The way to kill any market is to regulate it to death.
I was talking with a guy the other day that told me the 40 acre tobacco allotment is worth a hundred grand a year. It didn't kill tobacco, it just decided who would be allowed to make the money. The tobacco growing grading situation is not one you want to try and defend, we subsidize tobacco farmers, that is bullshit.

I guess what I'm trying to say is just because you don't agree with Camel selling weed don't prevent someone who may smoke cigs from smoking thier favrite brand in both.I'm sure sombody somewhere wants a pack of camel lefties or marlboro greens.:blsmoke: Remember the whole reason weed is illegal right now is because someone pushed their views & beliefs on us. We need big corporations because they have big money & big connections. Would big tobacco really support a bill that writes them out of the profits? No.
What are you talking about, the tobacco companies don't make profit off weed now. This bill would freeze the tax on the products the sell in our state at the current level. What are they going to do, tell their customers they want them to pay more tax because we aren't going to let them control the weed market.

I have to apoligize, I forgot to mention that because Marijuan is no longer illegal, neither is growing hemp. What I have against big business getting into it is because they are big business. It's a state issue as far as I am concerned.

You know its funny the last time I brought this shit up some one pointed out more tobacco is sold then weed. Of course the major share of it now is not grown in this country. We don't need and don't want any imported bullshit, local product, local consumption and tell me the price isn't good enough at $45.00 pre quarter oz. If it is not reasonable I'll just keep doing what I am doing.
Michigan gets a large part of its produce from CANANDA. They grow it using Hydroponics. Is their weather better than ours, no, we just aren't encouraged to gow hydro, might grow some weed too. Michigan State University is a land grant agricultural college. You know how many classes the offer on hydroponics?? zero. You are right farmers have problems, growing hemp could sure help at $600/ acre. Small business is the back bone that doesn't leave the state. All over the world folks are growing hydro veggies and fish in the same operation. could feed the world locally and end the problem of oil shortage by not shipping produce acrross the country, better food, grown to ripeness not picked and packed two weeks before its ready, hard as a rock tasteless produce, fresh,grown here, consumed here healthy food.
Hemp milk cost about 50% more than soy milk, is better for you and taste better, so I am told, must be true because the hemp milk sales are climbing and the soy milk ( think milk of magnesia) sales are declining.
Sorry I forgot the Hemp, the North Dakota farmers will forgive me won't ya guys,,, guys,,,, I'll be back later goatta go talk. VV
 
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