Feminized seeds are evil!!!!!

[cloudflyer]

I keep reading on here how great feminized seeds are.

FEMINIZED SEEDS ARE EVIL!!!!!

First, I understand why people use them. You want to fill every space you have with a female plant to increase yield. I get it. If you must fill every little hole use clones (i dont really like them either but they are the lesser of two evils).

Fact: Every feminized seed was once a hermi. It is inbred. Can you name one thing that the inbred version is better than the healthy one.

Ok let say you dont agree

Fact: every generation of the seed cycle for natural plant is genetically stronger than the previous generation. UNLESS you stress the plant (stressing the plant is how fem seeds are made.) Clones do not get stronger!

The seed companies are selling two things to you and marketing them as a benefit. They are selling you female probability and they are limiting the ability for other people to breed by providing no male plants.

One day all seed will be feminized and you will gave no choice but to get them thru seed banks. And all along they are charging you more for a lesser product.

If you want 20 plants then plant 40. But see now you want 40 right. At the very least plant half your crop with seeds and the other half with clones.

 

[AquafinaOrbit]

Evil is all perspective. If someone is just trying to grow a few plants and wants good yields I see no I see no issue with using them.

 

[GrowTech]

I second the latter opinion.

 

[cloudflyer]

Evil is all perspective. If someone is just trying to grow a few plants and wants good yields I see no I see no issue with using them.

But the plants yeild less and are weaker. Plus out of every 10 fem seeds you get 2 are going to hermie anyway. And yes that is less than will be male with regular seeds. Its just all around a bad idea for the future of the plant. Clones will give you better results than fem.
Also regular seeds produce 20% more weed than clones and fems

 

[GreenphoeniX]

I'm not going to agree or disagree with you on this one.
But I will say, I've never used feminized seeds ever, I've never actually seen the need for them, but that's my personal view. I've always had 50/50 male/female ratio or 'better' (as in more females) with every pack of regular seeds of grown, and that's good enough for me!

If you must fill every little hole use clones (i dont really like them either but they are the lesser of two evils).

What's wrong with clones? I'm just curious as to what people dislike about them, because I love them, they're awesome, you know exactly what you're getting and can grow them to their full potential once you get to know them. ('Them' being the phenotype cloned).
Although it is fun to grow seeds and go on the age old hunt for that special pheno ... to clone ... for future grows ... Wait what's wrong with clones again? lol

P.S - Clones have never yielded less than seed plants for me ... In fact, in my experience, my clones usually yield more because I know them better after growing them a few times, so I can get them dialed in better and boost their yield, potency and overall performance.

 

[GrowTech]

What's wrong with clones? I'm just curious as to what people dislike about them, because I love them, they're awesome, you know exactly what you're getting and can grow them to their full potential once you get to know them. ('Them' being the phenotype cloned).
Although it is fun to grow seeds and go on the age old hunt for that special pheno ... to clone ... for future grows ... Wait what's wrong with clones again? lol

Clones are excellent and I love using them. I absolutely agree with every statement you've made in the above quote.

 

[Barako]

i'm wondering that myself..what's wrong with clones? LOL

 

[pacman123]

>>One day all seed will be feminized and you will gave no choice but to get them thru seed banks. And all along they are charging you more for a lesser product.<<

WTF? Don't worry, never will ALL seed be feminized! Supply and demand/survival of the fittest yadda, yadda. Actually it has nothing to do with any of that, but humans beings will never stop producing naturally pollinated female plants, ever.

 

[s.c.mtn.hillbilly]

they'll never-and I do mean NEVER- have a lock on seeds...that is sheer paranoia! even if they got rid of guys like me, they'll never eradicate ditchweed; which means male genetics.

 

[cloudflyer]

I'm not going to agree or disagree with you on this one.
But I will say, I've never used feminized seeds ever, I've never actually seen the need for them, but that's my personal view. I've always had 50/50 male/female ratio or 'better' (as in more females) with every pack of regular seeds of grown, and that's good enough for me!



What's wrong with clones? I'm just curious as to what people dislike about them, because I love them, they're awesome, you know exactly what you're getting and can grow them to their full potential once you get to know them. ('Them' being the phenotype cloned).
Although it is fun to grow seeds and go on the age old hunt for that special pheno ... to clone ... for future grows ... Wait what's wrong with clones again? lol

P.S - Clones have never yielded less than seed plants for me ... In fact, in my experience, my clones usually yield more because I know them better after growing them a few times, so I can get them dialed in better and boost their yield, potency and overall performance.

Clones serve there purpose there is no doubt about that at all. You will get strong female plants all the time but there are two dis advantage. One is made up for though.

The first disadvantage is. It is an absolute fact that the orig mother (seed) of the clone is is stronger and will yield more than the actual clone itself. It has been proven time and time again. But You can make up for the yield since it is only a 20% loss in yield and natural seeds are about 50% fem/male. So yes for overall yield per crop not per plant clones work better.

The major disadvantage of clones is it does not insure the survival of the plant in the long run and each generation is not stronger than the one before it. You can't clone a clone a clone forever (i think its 18 times). After that your strain is gone. With a seed each generation is stronger than the past. I do 4 grows per year. One of which I grow for seed and do some genetic breeding. I now I have my seeds for next year. and so on. After 11 or so years I am still growing off the same family of WW. It is now stronger than ever. You will never get that with a clone.

 

[cloudflyer]

they'll never-and I do mean NEVER- have a lock on seeds...that is sheer paranoia! even if they got rid of guys like me, they'll never eradicate ditchweed; which means male genetics.

Do you want to breed your plants with ditch weed? People will pay for the better and just accept it. Ironicaly this very subject is one of great debate right now in the growing world. It may not go away but when supply goes down demand and price go up.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

I always find those studies to have contradictory evidence (a quick e.g - One study says clones have the exact genetic make-up of the plant they're taken from, and one study says a clones yield is decreased compared to the seeded plant, which would mean its not the exact genetic make-up (which never bothered me because I've always had the opposite results in my personal little experiments - room for human error tho).
*If you flower a seed plant, reveg it, then clone from the reveg, the yield can decrease (in my experience).

And wouldn't any next generation seed depend on what genetics are crossed with what? You can breed out good traits and bad traits alike.

If you do home breeding you should know that it is a lot more complicated than people often think.

Don't get me wrong, selective breeding if you know what you're doing WILL make a stronger strain, but not always if it's done at random, it'll make a different strain, but not necessarily a better one (but that depends on what you personally consider better).

There are ways to get more than 18 clones out of one plant (like a mother plant) ... But you could be right about cloning a clone of a clone 18 times, I've never looked into that, never cloned a clone of a clone 18 times myself lol

Cheers mate.

 

[cloudflyer]

I always find those studies to have controversial evidence (a quick e.g - One study says clones have the exact genetic make-up of the plant they're taken from, and one study says a clones yield is decreased (which never bothered me because I've always had the opposite results in my personal little experiments - room for human error tho).

And wouldn't any next generation seed depend on what genetics are crossed with what? You can breed out good traits and bad traits alike.

If you do home breeding you should know that it is a lot more complicated than people often think.

Don't get me wrong, selective breeding if you know what you're doing WILL make a stronger strain, but not always if it's done at random, it'll make a different strain, but not necessarily a better one (but that depends on what you personally consider better).

There are ways to get more than 18 clones out of one plant (like a mother plant) ... But you could be right about cloning a clone of a clone 18 times, I've never looked into that, never cloned a clone of a clone 18 times myself lol

Cheers mate.

You are right the qualities that transfer are not always the good ones.
I use WW as my control.

So on my seed grows my WW is always my male.
I will grow half WW and Half one other thing.

This insures my WW stays the same and my second breed is WW/other.

Last year was silver haze, year before that was blueberry, before that was god bud and so on.
So far my strongest mix was ww/bb

 

[GreenphoeniX]

Sounds good man. I like White Widow, the one thing I dislike about it is how over-hyped people make it (which isn't a problem with the strain itself lol).

You should cross a White Widow with some sort of Haze, always a good combo if you can get the Haze to show through in the buzz!

Nice grow journal mate. Looks good.

 

[cloudflyer]

Sounds good man. I like White Widow, the one thing I dislike about it is how over-hyped people make it (which isn't a problem with the strain itself lol).

You should cross a White Widow with some sort of Haze, always a good combo if you can get the Haze to show through in the buzz!

Nice grow journal mate. Looks good.

Thanks man funny thing I meant to say silver haze, not kush lol (silver haze journal you just saw).
That grow Journal is a little old. I have ramped things up quite a bit now that I bought a home. I was in an apartment then. I have not posted new pics cuz I am making a aeropoincs dvd that covers 3 grows one being breeding. I chose WW as my control because it has a very good habit of being dominate and passing on strong genetics. It is a very consistent plant.

 

[Woomeister]

Clones serve there purpose there is no doubt about that at all. You will get strong female plants all the time but there are two dis advantage. One is made up for though.

The first disadvantage is. It is an absolute fact that the orig mother (seed) of the clone is is stronger and will yield more than the actual clone itself. It has been proven time and time again. But You can make up for the yield since it is only a 20% loss in yield and natural seeds are about 50% fem/male. So yes for overall yield per crop not per plant clones work better.

The major disadvantage of clones is it does not insure the survival of the plant in the long run and each generation is not stronger than the one before it. You can't clone a clone a clone forever (i think its 18 times). After that your strain is gone. With a seed each generation is stronger than the past. I do 4 grows per year. One of which I grow for seed and do some genetic breeding. I now I have my seeds for next year. and so on. After 11 or so years I am still growing off the same family of WW. It is now stronger than ever. You will never get that with a clone.

Hearsay, old wives tales whatever you want to call it but not fact, 18x lmao. I know people who have cloned from the same stock for years and years. One guy I know has a mother thats over 8 years old.Also I have done a perpetual cloning experiment and am currently on number 12 so in 6 more times I will let you know what happens, but I can assure you they are healthy and yielding the same each and every time.

 

[cloudflyer]

Hearsay, old wives tales whatever you want to call it but not fact, 18x lmao. I know people who have cloned from the same stock for years and years. One guy I know has a mother thats over 8 years old.

Having a mother that is 8 years old has nothing to do with it. He is cloning from one mother . That is not a clone of a clone of a clone and so on..
And it is not getting stronger each generation either. It is frozen in time

 

[reefcouple]

Very odd you mated a male WW and Fem BB.. I plan do do exactly that.. tell me, did your BB increase in THC and lose a little in yield?? That is what I would assume would happen but am interested in what you found...

thanks much

 

[Woomeister]

Having a mother that is 8 years old has nothing to do with it. He is cloning from one mother . That is not a clone of a clone of a clone and so on..
And it is not getting stronger each generation either. It is frozen in time

I know that wasnt the salient point, what was the point is that I have cloned off a clone etc 12 times now and have seen no ill effects only a far greater understanding of the strain, so better and better yields.

 

[GreenphoeniX]

I am interested in what was found too, but just bare in mind that that does not mean your plants will do the same. Slightly different genetics can mean slight-large difference in result (depending on dominant and recessive genes).