Would you support universal basic income if it meant eliminating all other social safety net progs?

[Harrekin]

We have over 100 different federal welfare departments since our war on poverty started. There are studies that show we could give everyone living under poverty here 40K a year a piece for what it costs to do it the way we do it now. So it's believable it could be cheaper.

It's still first level thinking. We all know there are broken people out there, people willing to pee in the punch or shit in the floor for laughs. If everyone is getting a UBI, who will clean it up? How much will we have to pay someone to clean it up? I sure as hell won't clean up someone's shit for less that what I make doing nothing so good luck with menial jobs.

So wages will go up which will also make the 1st level thinkers happy. A UBI, nobody working for less than 20 bucks an hour, sound lovely.

What level will poverty be now that your big mac costs 14 dollars?

Hold up, you're way underestimating the cost of a UBI.

300mill X 18,000 = approx 5.4 trillion a year

Current total budgeted welfare spending for fiscal year 2015 is around 500 billion. (That's State and Federal).

If you call a ten-fold increase in costs "roughly the same" then I've been giving you far too much credit all this time. (Just kidding, you can remain in my harem)

 

[ginwilly]

societal model does work and has been proven.

why do people comment without reading the thread?

How much have we spent on the war on poverty to date. Could we have chosen a better method? On a small scale lots of things work that don't on a large scale.

If I'm on a deserted Island with less than 100 people, you better believe the optimal system would a communistic approach. 300 million people? Not so much.

Human nature is something that just can't be ignored. Trillions of dollars spent to maintain the same level of poverty over 50 years doesn't seem like it's a great thing to me. I'm all for trying new things, I thought that's why were discussing this.

NO DISSENSION says ms schuylaar.

 

[ginwilly]

Hold up, you're way underestimating the cost of a UBI.

300mill X 18,000 = approx 5.4 trillion a year

Current total budgeted welfare spending for fiscal year 2015 is around 500 billion. (That's State and Federal).

If you call a ten-fold increase in costs "roughly the same" then I've been giving you far too much credit all this time. (Just kidding, you can remain in my harem)

LOL, sorry, I was basing that off of us never paying our bills. We would only pay the 0.25% interest, which would be roughly the same cost.

 

[schuylaar]

Define "works" .

Do you want a forcefully ordered society or a spontaneous and free society where people are free to own themselves is the question you might ask.

see: denmark or any of the other nordic countries..like i already posted on page 1.

 

[schuylaar]

How much have we spent on the war on poverty to date. Could we have chosen a better method? On a small scale lots of things work that don't on a large scale.

If I'm on a deserted Island with less than 100 people, you better believe the optimal system would a communistic approach. 300 million people? Not so much.

Human nature is something that just can't be ignored. Trillions of dollars spent to maintain the same level of poverty over 50 years doesn't seem like it's a great thing to me. I'm all for trying new things, I thought that's why were discussing this.

NO DISSENSION says ms schuylaar.

i'm not suggesting communism, just a more fair approach..you still have capitalism in a societal model.

 

[Rob Roy]

see: denmark or any of the other nordic countries..like i already posted on page 1.

When something works for you, but other people don't want to participate in it and agree to leave you alone if you will leave them alone, do you think that's acceptable?

Why do you think you don't own yourself?

 

[Rob Roy]

i'm not suggesting communism, just a more fair approach..you still have capitalism in a societal model.

A fair approach would be you get to do that which you like and others would get to do that which they like and nobody would force the other into something different.

It's a really cool concept, it's called freedom. Perhaps you've heard of it?

 

[ginwilly]

i'm not suggesting communism, just a more fair approach..you still have capitalism in a societal model.

I know you weren't sorry if it came across that way. I was just comparing populations.

In a small population setting (100 or less) I would think communism would be the most efficient. In a setting of 300 million, human nature is less controllable.

 

[schuylaar]

Hold up, you're way underestimating the cost of a UBI.

300mill X 18,000 = approx 5.4 trillion a year

Current total budgeted welfare spending for fiscal year 2015 is around 500 billion. (That's State and Federal).

If you call a ten-fold increase in costs "roughly the same" then I've been giving you far too much credit all this time. (Just kidding, you can remain in my harem)

um, you're missing one component..taxes at 60% which will alter the budget demonstrably.

 

[Rob Roy]

um, you're missing one component..taxes at 60% which will alter the budget demonstrably.

If a person is taxed at 60% are they a slave? How about 73% ? 88% ? 93.234 % ?

A tax of 60% will mean that more than half the value of your labor has been taken from you under threat of force.

If I take some of your stuff, against your will, but also leave you some, did I steal from you or is there a magic percentage number where if it remains under that my taking your stuff becomes "not theft" ?

 

[UncleBuck]

I'd not work and just do under the table jobs for additional income.

Kinda like Buck does now to be honest.

If you've a slut of a system (like UBI) I'm gonna lash it OUT OF IT like everyone else would he guaranteed.

Let me see if I get it right, even the rich would get this?

obsessed.

 

[King Arthur]

Who builds the robots?

Are you really that ignorant? I know you are going to come back with your classic flames and all but really...

are you that fucking stupid?

Google owns more than 5 robotics firms... I wonder who the fuck is going to make all these robots??? hmmm... the mystery is almost as deep to you as the question about god existing.

 

[UncleBuck]

We have over 100 different federal welfare departments since our war on poverty started. There are studies that show we could give everyone living under poverty here 40K a year a piece for what it costs to do it the way we do it now. So it's believable it could be cheaper.

It's still first level thinking. We all know there are broken people out there, people willing to pee in the punch or shit in the floor for laughs. If everyone is getting a UBI, who will clean it up? How much will we have to pay someone to clean it up? I sure as hell won't clean up someone's shit for less that what I make doing nothing so good luck with menial jobs.

So wages will go up which will also make the 1st level thinkers happy. A UBI, nobody working for less than 20 bucks an hour, sound lovely.

What level will poverty be now that your big mac costs 14 dollars?

denmark already has a version of UBI and a $20 min wage.

big macs there cost $5.38, as opposed to $4.80 here.

you have no point so you have to lie, over and over and over.

go away.

 

[UncleBuck]

You are using the wrong term. A "donation" implies a voluntary act. State money is not gotten thru voluntary acts, it is taken under threat of force.

A state as an institution doesn't want competition, and will kill you if advocate it, it's existence is threatened by people making free choices and ultimately by peaceful and voluntary human interactions.

Also you didn't really answer my question.

if everyone is getting a UBI, the only money that is taxed is above and beyond the UBI, which is money people chose to make and consented to be taxed on.

thus, it is done under consent, not force.

inb4 pedophilia get s described as consensual and voluntary.

 

[UncleBuck]

Hold up, you're way underestimating the cost of a UBI.

300mill X 18,000 = approx 5.4 trillion a year

Current total budgeted welfare spending for fiscal year 2015 is around 500 billion. (That's State and Federal).

If you call a ten-fold increase in costs "roughly the same" then I've been giving you far too much credit all this time. (Just kidding, you can remain in my harem)

don't forget SS, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, heating assistance, WIC, et al.

you dumb fucking midget.

 

[UncleBuck]

Trillions of dollars spent to maintain the same level of poverty over 50 years doesn't seem like it's a great thing to me.

actually, if you abolished the war on poverty, the poverty rate would double overnight.

 

[King Arthur]

I am all for a base income, all of you guys should be too if you really think about it. Corporations don't pay their fair share of taxes anymore and we are all supporting that.... we pay more for the corporations not doing their fair share than we do on the safety net programs that we have.

People would be in much better financial situations if they were getting a check every month. Imagine all the shit we could do with the extra free time.. like fix our cars, clean our houses, plant gardens, fix all kinds of broken shit.

It would cost us less to close the tax loophole and to give everyone a base income than it would to continue social security and wellfare.

You have to be a real dumbass to think that this wouldn't benefit our entire country.

 

[sheskunk]

Are you really that ignorant? I know you are going to come back with your classic flames and all but really...

are you that fucking stupid?

Google owns more than 5 robotics firms... I wonder who the fuck is going to make all these robots??? hmmm... the mystery is almost as deep to you as the question about god existing.

So you're suggesting a 100% robotic workforce? Not one human will ever have to work? Doing anything, anywhere?

I'm not being stupid, I'm just making sure I'm clear on your opinion. No need to get over emotional about it.

 

[Rob Roy]

if everyone is getting a UBI, the only money that is taxed is above and beyond the UBI, which is money people chose to make and consented to be taxed on.

thus, it is done under consent, not force.

inb4 pedophilia get s described as consensual and voluntary.

Nope. You cast a blind on whether or not a person can opt out of something and not be held in it by legislative force. Your assumption is that is not an option for the individual. Thus what follows is not consent of the individual, it would be made impossible under those circumstances.

Consent is not the collective will, if it was, then gang rape would be consensual. You really have no idea what consent means Comrade Collectivist mindset Nanny State can do no wrong Person.

 

[King Arthur]

So you're suggesting a 100% robotic workforce? Not one human will ever have to work? Doing anything, anywhere?

I'm not being stupid, I'm just making sure I'm clear on your opinion. No need to get over emotional about it.

Did I suggest that the work force would be 100% robotic?

When you have something other than 100% retardation to bring to the table let me know, until then go back to being a sock puppet.