a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
Is this thread about peat soilless or building your own soil? If this is a soilless thread i would agree with post #17. Less volume of water and more feedings per week. Target ph 5.9-6.2.
PRO MIX BX WITH MYCORRHIZAE
- Thread starter GOLDBERG71
- Start date
dam...that's awesome....when do you start nutes in bx? two weeks?
What if ph was sam all the way thru?? Between 6-7...would that be so bad???? Ty sir
2Hearts
Well-Known Member
If you use a chem fert in straight promix wouldnt the ph be whats recomended by the manufacturer? Is this not when those ten or so chemicals in various nitrate/oxide etc forms are most readily available.
If you amend promix to be a soil by adding organic hummus, clay and loam then isnt ph more dependant on the soil microbes and insoluable soluble nutrients available hence why a higher ph is better.
Id base ph on fert recomendation and buy my fert specifically for what medium im using to grow in.
I am still just getting the hang of promix but between my fert and the lime in it i wouldnt see how i could possibly need more lime cal or mag.
My promix seems to work best where my canna ferts recomend the ph to be between 5.2 to 6.2, i run between 5.8 to 6.0 and get zero ph problems in runoff. My ph only gets lower than this when salt build up happens and this is my first sign to cut back ferts. I think thats like a hydro res, low ph high salt level then lower res ec.
If you amend promix to be a soil by adding organic hummus, clay and loam then isnt ph more dependant on the soil microbes and insoluable soluble nutrients available hence why a higher ph is better.
Id base ph on fert recomendation and buy my fert specifically for what medium im using to grow in.
I am still just getting the hang of promix but between my fert and the lime in it i wouldnt see how i could possibly need more lime cal or mag.
My promix seems to work best where my canna ferts recomend the ph to be between 5.2 to 6.2, i run between 5.8 to 6.0 and get zero ph problems in runoff. My ph only gets lower than this when salt build up happens and this is my first sign to cut back ferts. I think thats like a hydro res, low ph high salt level then lower res ec.
Last edited:
Pro-Mix recommends 5.8 (from what I found in a thread once, someone who said they called Premier Hort. and asked.). Being soilless, it's somewhere between hydro and soil. All I can say is I used 5.8 in veg, 6.2 in flower. A guy at the hydro store said that's what he does. I never strayed much from that. A previous poster in this thread said he tried going higher and had availability problems. You can try 6.0-7.0, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work unless it's down to 6.0.
Probably depends on the product. It's common to use hydro products what may recommend a ph for hydro. I wouldn't trust that to mean soilless as well. If in doubt, I guess the best thing to do is call the manufacturer and ask them if they recommend that for soilless. But, when I did soilless and spent a lot of time googling for what ph to use, it was always in the 5.8-6.2 range. I did that with GH Flora 3-part which is a hydro product. It worked fine.
2Hearts
Well-Known Member
Prem horticulture do some very good pages on growing in promix. If i run my promix at 6.5 my plants dont seem as happy as at 5.8. I do like 5.8 in straight promix.
I was under the assumption that promix is closer to 7ph but its more the ph of the ferts that matters to the plants.
Mine Pro-Mix is always 5.8 out of the bag. When I add 20% Kellogg Patio Plus soil, it goes to 6.1-6.2. Patio Plus is close to 7.0 out of the bag.
A grower on another forum said his Pro-Mix is too high, around 7.0 out of the bag. (He uses aluminum sulfate to lower it to 6.4.). I don't know if it's produced regionally, or if I got some bad bags. I've been thinking of using hydrated lime to bump mine up a little higher.
I use a $60 Control Wizard Accurate 8 ph probe. The fellow on the other forum did too. There's a lot of controversy about whether soil has a ph, if it can be accurately measured. At least we were using the same device. (I think it can be measured because my runoff tends to match what the probe shows, at least the trend as the soil acidifies when overfed, etc.).
2Hearts
Well-Known Member
Lime and peat break down very slowly in promix. The lime added isn't so much to correct ph but to act as a buffer over time.
If i remember correctly from cation exchange rates then those positive acidic ions held by the peat can be nutralised and replaced by limes alkaline negative ions giving an overal ph of the grow medium. On top of this you add ferts to feed the plant.
You add ph up or down to ferts to balance the acid and alkaline ionic nutrients and hence you have a ph balanced system.
Coco seems to have a similar thing going in that it breaksdown or holds onto potassium and a mild nutroent flush or cal/mag can go some way to correcting it before planting then its just a matter of balanced
Prem horticulture talk about conditioning the ph by running ph nute solutions through it over time and i guessed they meant that the peat will eaqualise to different ph's by accepting certain +/- ions from the solution thus changing ph.
Last edited:
doesn't work??? meaning what?? no buds? harvest,? can I just make my gallons of water ph 6.0?? easiest solution for me,,,can you plz say what my water ph should be ...5.8 veg 6.2 flower????? ty ty sir....for helping....
I would expect lack of vigorous growth, deficiencies. Don't be afraid to try it. That's how we learn. Everyone's environment is different. I just had an experience where I advised a member not to increase nutrient strength to correct slow growth because every time I've tried to reduce growth by reducing nutrient strength it resulted in blotches and yellowing, not slow growth. I felt he should focus on other possible causes. Eventually he increased nutes and it fixed his problem.
So, don't take what we're saying as gospel. If you want to try 6.8, do it. But, there are so many people saying 5.8-6.2 that I'd do this first and try straying from it on a subsequent grow if you're curious about how critical that is.
In soil I don't think it's very critical because the soil has buffers in it. I think you can be in the 6.0-7.0 range and not have a problem. (I'm doing it with the light soil mix I described earlier in this thread.). But, I don't believe soilless has as much "strength" (gravity?) to hold it's ph. It's something more like hydro which has virtually no strength to hold its ph against the nutrient's strength (i.e., the nutrients *are* the medium.
I encourage you to be more specific in your terms. It's common for new growers to think they're supposed to ph the water, then add nutrients. You need to ph the water after adding nutrients. You can help other members help you by calling it "nutrient solution" so we know you're not making that common mistake. (I'm pretty sure you're not since I think we've emphasized the distinction in a previous post. But, still, when you keep saying "water" it makes me want to be clear about it.).
The nice thing about pro-mix is it works pretty well under a lot of circumstances.......
I've been using it for many, many years- over 20 for sure. This is what I do and have done, 4 crops a year:
1 bale pro-mix
3.75 cups of dolomite lime (must be dolomite or agricultural lime- same thing but labeled differently)
a lot of perlite
pH always between 6.3-6.5 (pH water after nutes are added) Do not go higher than 6.5, ever!
either Great White or ZHO for root growth
I use Botanicare nutes, and always add 5-10 ml/gallon of cal/mag
I use 4 gallon pots, and water with fertilizer every 3 days.
I don't fertilizer for 2 weeks, than my ppm is low, around 500 for a few weeks slowly rising as the plants get bigger. Each strain line different nute levels but in flowering I try to stay around 1200 ppm. Kushes like it higher usually, sativas like less usually.
You can review some of my grows for performance, I currently have an active grow on RIU with Blue Rhino from Positronics. The above is tried and true, no matter what others may say. But again, Pro-mix is forgiving and is meant to work under many different conditions.
Lastly, a few other points:
1. Good starting water is imperative. I use an R.O. device, and it guarantees my water to be pure. Many problems are caused by
plain tap water,and without the proper testing of it to know what you really have- this leads to problems.
2. Good quality (and complete) nutes. It must be complete, like most hydroponic ferts. Botanicare is quite good.
3. Some bales do seem to have gnat larva and lead to gnat infestations. Buy mosquito dunks and let them float in your water. This
will kill them eventually.
I've been using it for many, many years- over 20 for sure. This is what I do and have done, 4 crops a year:
1 bale pro-mix
3.75 cups of dolomite lime (must be dolomite or agricultural lime- same thing but labeled differently)
a lot of perlite
pH always between 6.3-6.5 (pH water after nutes are added) Do not go higher than 6.5, ever!
either Great White or ZHO for root growth
I use Botanicare nutes, and always add 5-10 ml/gallon of cal/mag
I use 4 gallon pots, and water with fertilizer every 3 days.
I don't fertilizer for 2 weeks, than my ppm is low, around 500 for a few weeks slowly rising as the plants get bigger. Each strain line different nute levels but in flowering I try to stay around 1200 ppm. Kushes like it higher usually, sativas like less usually.
You can review some of my grows for performance, I currently have an active grow on RIU with Blue Rhino from Positronics. The above is tried and true, no matter what others may say. But again, Pro-mix is forgiving and is meant to work under many different conditions.
Lastly, a few other points:
1. Good starting water is imperative. I use an R.O. device, and it guarantees my water to be pure. Many problems are caused by
plain tap water,and without the proper testing of it to know what you really have- this leads to problems.
2. Good quality (and complete) nutes. It must be complete, like most hydroponic ferts. Botanicare is quite good.
3. Some bales do seem to have gnat larva and lead to gnat infestations. Buy mosquito dunks and let them float in your water. This
will kill them eventually.
ok...ty ty sir
turbobuzz
Well-Known Member
I usually go about 3 weeks before nutes, then I start off pretty easy with them. I use a combo of tiger bloom, big bloom, and grow big.
What if ph was sam all the way thru?? Between 6-7...would that be so bad???? Ty sir
Bro,can u plz take a look at my girls,in pro mix, I think I got claw going, can u say what I should do?
Attachments
GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
I don't have time to catch up with everyone's posts since my last post. But I'm happy to see the input and when I get a chance I'll be reading them all. But I did want to update where I'm at. My oldest plants (nev haze) are in the 50% pro mix bx and 50% perlite. They are 10 weeks into flower and looking nice. I'm not having the yellowing of the leaves as I did in the past. The only changes I made to this from previous runs is I've been watering at a PH of 6.8 rather than 6.5. This seems to have solved my problem. The new batch is 2 weeks into flower. They have the same original 50/50 pro mix / perlite for the first gallon pot they were placed in. When transplanted to 5 gallon pots the new soil was mixed with hardwood ash to raise the soil PH to 6.5 they've also been being feed at 6.8. They also look great. But the yellowing problem I've had in the past never showed up until weeks 4-6. The plants in veg now will have 100% PH adjusted soil. I can only speak for myself but I'm seeing much better results trying to offset the base PH of the pro mix. Somewhere in this I'm sure I can find harmony. But I can say this if the Neville haze plants stay nice and green throughout flower. I won't be adding anymore ash until my following batch with 100% PH adjusted reaches completion. Because if I can keep the NH green for 16 weeks by simply feeding at 6.8 rather than 6.5 that seems easier than making sure the ash gets evenly mixed in the soil.
2Hearts
Well-Known Member
Im really happy you got things sorted. Im getting good results with a 50/50 promix perlite ratio and will take into consideration your 6.8ph for any future problems i may encounter.
Off top of my head dosent woodash have an NPK rating?
I do trust the makers where they say you can set the promix ph by adjusting water and fert ph.
Off top of my head dosent woodash have an NPK rating?
I do trust the makers where they say you can set the promix ph by adjusting water and fert ph.
pro mix bx and perlite,, just been using regular tap water....just got gh ph control kit and pro tekt....wil try keep my ph round 6.0 now.....maybe they'll grow better now?? idk...have no complaints...jus trying do what you guys do....should I get one of those ph pens?? or color on ph kit is good enough????
Last edited:
GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
I didn't use the hardwood ash for NPK but I just googled it and it does. 0-(1-2)-(6-10) that's the ratio I found. My guess is the P and K values aren't clearer because different wood types have different ratios.Im really happy you got things sorted. Im getting good results with a 50/50 promix perlite ratio and will take into consideration your 6.8ph for any future problems i may encounter.
Off top of my head dosent woodash have an NPK rating?
I do trust the makers where they say you can set the promix ph by adjusting water and fert ph.
My plants look better than they ever have before at the 6 week mark. It's around this time when my fan leaves usually start to slowly lose their color. Not this time if these plants didn't have nice flowers with lots of resin they look just as green and healthy as all plants do in veg. Nice lush green leaves.
However, I'm seeing early signs of spider mites. They showed up at the end of my last cycle and I thought I had gotten rid of them. I've also got a blower that decided it was going to quit working on my central air. So with the spring finally showing up I'm also battling heat and need to call the service guy ASAP. But he can't come until I finish off the plants that are flowering now. So I've had to make a hard decision to close things down after this group flowers. I firmly believe I've solved my problem by feeding at 6.8 PH. I haven't tested the soil PH because there's been no need my plants have never looked better!
I just finished sexing my G13/haze and Afghan/Haze. They were scheduled to go in the flower room next but since I have to call in the HVAC guy I had to change my plans. So I took cuttings from all the females and culled them with the males. Doing so ends my experiment with soil adjusted with hardwood ash. My flower room has it's own A/C unit so I'll have no trouble finishing them. 3 out of 4 of my Neville Haze finished just as the temps were rising at 14 weeks. Thankfully that will allow me to finish the real sativa pheno with 2 lights @300 watts rather than my normal setting of super lumens on a 600 ballast. Because it's the tallest all the flowers are bent sideways and close to the hoods. So I'm hoping that doesn't slow those flowers from filling out. This last plant is really nice looking with huge sativa flowers. I was surprised the other 3 had more compact buds. And yes they are the real deal from MNS. I don't buy knock offs. So basically I'm shutting down my whole program down. I've got my clones and I'm going to bomb all areas as well as wash down with bleach. While the HVAC blower gets repaired. Then I'm going to plan out the whole year. So that the large flower room is clean and empty at this time next year so the HVAC can be scheduled to not hold me up.
I've already dropped the hardwood ash. I'm sticking with my 50/50 pro mix and perlite ratio as usual and unless I have a problem I plan on feeding at a 6.8 PH.
huh...been keeping my ph round...6.0....looks good 2 weeks in flower