some LED strip light info. strip types, wiring, adapters,etc. 5630-specific
- Thread starter liesandlies
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sunny747
Well-Known Member
Who here, in the name of science, wold like me to use these phillips slimstyle 2700k LED bulbs in my tent rather than the CFL's I already have on hand? I plan to have 4 bulbs as side/under lighting. She is in week 1 of flower. I gave up in the strip lights for now. Too much going on.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-SlimStyle-60W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-A19-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-E-452978/204730356
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-SlimStyle-60W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-A19-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-E-452978/204730356
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
Here's the Data sheet on the strips i picked up, http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/602/DS142-541590.pdf . 140 lumens per watt or so isnt bad for efficiency. I am only using them as supplemental side lighting in my tiny space, and so far they seem to be working well. Only problem i have with them was the cost of the corner extrusions i purchased from a different site.... probably should have shopped around more.
The strips i got are these http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lumileds/L235-3580AHLCBBAC0/?qs=/ha2pyFaduhHgIMg4KmAun/TZNReRy3YawxJWsB3Frzax7lBDd8bEDf5A/pSSbVy
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You adhered them to heatsinks? Is that necessary? Seems like most applications I see don't. They just stick them onto PVC or a sheet of aluminum(?).
This is an example of what I was saying about the potential difference in quality between the $10-$20 for 5m (5000mm) reels on Amazon and $10 for 1 foot (50mm) of the reputable (datasheet represented) product like you ordered.
It would be interesting if someone would buy the low-cost reel and compare it to a reputable. I'm wondering if a difference exists or is worth the expense. 140lm/w sounds great, although that might be a theoretical number. I've never heard of SMD5630/5730 having that kind of output. It's usually at the 110-120 range. I wonder if there is really a substantial output difference.
I could see 140 being worth it where heat management is a priority. But, that assumes the inexpensive reels are really 110-120. If they're overstated, then 140 would be more worth it. I guess it gets back to how it would be great if someone sprung for the generic stuff and a foot of the good stuff to take some lux measurements.
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if it was necessary but yes i did mount them to heatsinks. My assumption was the cooler you can keep them the better their efficiency and longer they last, like other leds.
This answers that question "TIM/PSA Material LUXEON XF-3535L is included with a backside thermally conductive PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive). The backside PSA is designed to provide an improved thermal interface to the heat-sink. "
This answers that question "TIM/PSA Material LUXEON XF-3535L is included with a backside thermally conductive PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive). The backside PSA is designed to provide an improved thermal interface to the heat-sink. "
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
There are other hardstripes with more efficient LED's like 5630/5730, for example smd7020.(datasheet below)
They costs 12$/10pcs 0,5m from Ebay, each 0,5m strip rated with 6w(6w : 36pcs = 0,167w / 3,3V@50mA = 0,165w).
Compared with the values from the data sheet rather low, but more efficient with less heat.
The problem with this typ of LED's is that there are different binnings and you don't know what you get!
They costs 12$/10pcs 0,5m from Ebay, each 0,5m strip rated with 6w(6w : 36pcs = 0,167w / 3,3V@50mA = 0,165w).
Compared with the values from the data sheet rather low, but more efficient with less heat.
The problem with this typ of LED's is that there are different binnings and you don't know what you get!
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
Temperature control is key to getting the efficiency stated in the data sheets. My little 12" strips are likely not even coming close to 140 lm/w as that number is theoretically achieved at an operating temperature of 25 celcius or 77 f at 600ma. After leaving on for 30 minutes at full power the temperature of my heat sink was 95 degrees f. Im running them at a lower amperage to keep the temps down but am still around 80 degrees. Not ideal but if i was using a less efficient strip to begin with the lm/w would be even lower
Sounds like these are lower intensity which might be better for micro grows?
I'm glad to see this thread (and another recent one about how to power strip LED). I think this kind of lighting is the way to go for the average personal grower (1-4 plants, 2x4' space). I'd love to see the info collected and distilled into an easy-to-assimilate resource like I did with Cree "lightbulbs" (distilling mostly what others did, especially @captainmorgan). An easy "go to" to get past all the initial questions of which strip is better for which use case.
I wish I hadn't gotten as far into the "lightbulbs." I'd be going deeply into this, trying to do what captain did for the "lightbulbs." But, I've got more lights than I need now. Gotta curb my OCD.
About the time I'd conclude that exercise there'd be something new hitting the market. But, I hope you guys will keep going with this and distill the info down to "best practices" somewhere like a blog where it can be perpetually updated, easier to digest than pages and pages of conversation. I really think this stuff is the way to go and better than the lightbulbs, if for no other reason than the diodes all face the intended target, no lossy reflectors to redirect omnidirectional light, etc.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
I would like to know which typ of led's Valoya used in these LED tubes? Use they special phosphors or not?
Problem of the most chinese phosphors is its greenish colours with 5% blue, 25% red and 70% green. For side lightning a good solution but as a main light I would use 1m blue, 5m red combine with 10m cool- and warm-whites(Ø200w) for a 2x3 area to get a good spectrum coverage.
Problem of the most chinese phosphors is its greenish colours with 5% blue, 25% red and 70% green. For side lightning a good solution but as a main light I would use 1m blue, 5m red combine with 10m cool- and warm-whites(Ø200w) for a 2x3 area to get a good spectrum coverage.
go banana
Active Member
Unless your buying from Digikey or another reputable supplier, they will NOT be a samsung 5730chip. Just a knock off. Or worse when the chinese suppliers actually label the counterfeits as Samsung smd.
Now that I have purchased a few strips from different eBey suppliers it's clear, the quality, performance and actual color is ALL over the place. All of them being 5630 btw. So depending on source, we will unfortunately all have variable results.
For about a month now, I've been stress testing all of them. 50mm sections, powered 24/7, @ 12v 350mah. I haven't measured the temperature, but they are all hot to the touch. Also testing a small array of 5630 chips on the hardstrip aluminum backed pcb. They are all performing well, however the hard strips show some discoloration. Burning the excess flux/paint... ?
Strangely though, the soft strip samples seem to have got... brighter. I read that somewhere before that ppl seem to think they get brighter. Never thought that could be valid... So, perhaps indication of resistor failure?? phosphor coating wearing?? Going supernova??
I'm sure we have a bunch of interested\ invested lurkers out there now. Would love to see others progress... hardware and grow capability.
Randomblame's impressive experience and results (and also some reef aquarium dudes), so far have been the most encouraging, to me. Flip through the interwebs and you will find many failed led-strip grow attempts. Some were so so, but all were using the 5050 chip. not even close to the intensity of 5630 when you do a side by side.
I'm almost done my array and will be sharing the build and performance info as it may have some value for others (probably a new thread as to not clutter this one anymore). Building this all at work, so my build/assembly quality will hopefully be the last point of possible failure. I'm currently in the middle of flowering, dialed in perfectly, so i'm kinda hesitant throwing this monster in and "changing the environment". Sooo overprotective of my enslaved girls.
Ok I'm gonna just stfu now.
GB
Now that I have purchased a few strips from different eBey suppliers it's clear, the quality, performance and actual color is ALL over the place. All of them being 5630 btw. So depending on source, we will unfortunately all have variable results.
For about a month now, I've been stress testing all of them. 50mm sections, powered 24/7, @ 12v 350mah. I haven't measured the temperature, but they are all hot to the touch. Also testing a small array of 5630 chips on the hardstrip aluminum backed pcb. They are all performing well, however the hard strips show some discoloration. Burning the excess flux/paint... ?
Strangely though, the soft strip samples seem to have got... brighter. I read that somewhere before that ppl seem to think they get brighter. Never thought that could be valid... So, perhaps indication of resistor failure?? phosphor coating wearing?? Going supernova??
I'm sure we have a bunch of interested\ invested lurkers out there now. Would love to see others progress... hardware and grow capability.
Randomblame's impressive experience and results (and also some reef aquarium dudes), so far have been the most encouraging, to me. Flip through the interwebs and you will find many failed led-strip grow attempts. Some were so so, but all were using the 5050 chip. not even close to the intensity of 5630 when you do a side by side.
I'm almost done my array and will be sharing the build and performance info as it may have some value for others (probably a new thread as to not clutter this one anymore). Building this all at work, so my build/assembly quality will hopefully be the last point of possible failure. I'm currently in the middle of flowering, dialed in perfectly, so i'm kinda hesitant throwing this monster in and "changing the environment". Sooo overprotective of my enslaved girls.
Ok I'm gonna just stfu now.
GB
Metacanna
Well-Known Member
Hello all,
I'm currently growing in a trash can - "bucket of light" as you call it - using 5630 strips, I'm using red and blue with a ratio 1:1. I plan to add more red in a few weeks when my new power supply arrives, so far my leds are drawing 40w as my power supply is only 12v, 3.3A.
It is interesting to observe my plants tilt towards the blue leds, not only cannabis plants but some other vegetables I'm growing like basil and celery. The reds might be doing something for the plants as well, but fact is they want the blue hitting their leaves. This said, I must say I'm not being very successful as the growth is being slow, I suspect even in the early stage (14 days) they require more light to grow properly, secondly the light spectrum might need to be optimized.
I'm not sure if I should add some other light spectrum like the 5630 leds WW or CW. I read the whites in these leds strips are produced by adding a layer of phosphorus over the blue leds, what does it mean to the plants? Will the plants actually absorb the white spectrum produce by this method or is this "fake white" useless for the plants?
I was wondering if any of you have tried or thought using aluminium tape as an heat sink. This tape has 0.08mm thickness and seems very easy to apply even in curvy surfaces like a trash can, costs around 3-5$ per 3 meters. If 0.08mm isn't enough to disperse the heat it could be applied twice or even more to increase the thickness to 0.16mm, 0.24mm and so on. The thickness might sound ridiculous when compared to the cheapest 2mm tradicional heat sinks but it can be applied over a much wider area, which might be exactly what we need when using meters and meters of leds dispersed over larger areas, like a bucket completely cover in leds strips.
I'm currently growing in a trash can - "bucket of light" as you call it - using 5630 strips, I'm using red and blue with a ratio 1:1. I plan to add more red in a few weeks when my new power supply arrives, so far my leds are drawing 40w as my power supply is only 12v, 3.3A.
It is interesting to observe my plants tilt towards the blue leds, not only cannabis plants but some other vegetables I'm growing like basil and celery. The reds might be doing something for the plants as well, but fact is they want the blue hitting their leaves. This said, I must say I'm not being very successful as the growth is being slow, I suspect even in the early stage (14 days) they require more light to grow properly, secondly the light spectrum might need to be optimized.
I'm not sure if I should add some other light spectrum like the 5630 leds WW or CW. I read the whites in these leds strips are produced by adding a layer of phosphorus over the blue leds, what does it mean to the plants? Will the plants actually absorb the white spectrum produce by this method or is this "fake white" useless for the plants?
I was wondering if any of you have tried or thought using aluminium tape as an heat sink. This tape has 0.08mm thickness and seems very easy to apply even in curvy surfaces like a trash can, costs around 3-5$ per 3 meters. If 0.08mm isn't enough to disperse the heat it could be applied twice or even more to increase the thickness to 0.16mm, 0.24mm and so on. The thickness might sound ridiculous when compared to the cheapest 2mm tradicional heat sinks but it can be applied over a much wider area, which might be exactly what we need when using meters and meters of leds dispersed over larger areas, like a bucket completely cover in leds strips.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Hi Metacanna!
I'd rather go with a solid sheet of 1-2mm, because the adhesive layers between the aluminum is not a good heat conductor!
1mm sheet is cheap and easy to cut into any shape you need for your bucket!
The phosphors on white LED's converts blue light into a wideband white light. There is no fake in it!
They cover almost the entire spectrum that plants need and give them an optimal ratio of blue : green : red : far red.(p.e. 10 : 40 : 45 : 5%/3.500k)
Cool and daywhite are best for green plants such as lettuce or for vegging, during warmwhite is good for flowering plants.
Only red and blue supplies not enough energy for really fat results, as it is proved that plants really needs green light, because they actually reflect only 15% of the green light, 85% is used. It increases the photosynthesis and especially the lower, inner and older leaves use more green than red and blue. Especially if you already have enough red and blue available, increases the green light the photosynthesis enormous.
Trust me your plants will love it!
I'm useing about 100w of ww & cw 5630 stripes and can cut every 20 days very good developed cuttings from my 4 mother plants. The growth is significantly faster than needed, lol.
I'd rather go with a solid sheet of 1-2mm, because the adhesive layers between the aluminum is not a good heat conductor!
1mm sheet is cheap and easy to cut into any shape you need for your bucket!
The phosphors on white LED's converts blue light into a wideband white light. There is no fake in it!
They cover almost the entire spectrum that plants need and give them an optimal ratio of blue : green : red : far red.(p.e. 10 : 40 : 45 : 5%/3.500k)
Cool and daywhite are best for green plants such as lettuce or for vegging, during warmwhite is good for flowering plants.
Only red and blue supplies not enough energy for really fat results, as it is proved that plants really needs green light, because they actually reflect only 15% of the green light, 85% is used. It increases the photosynthesis and especially the lower, inner and older leaves use more green than red and blue. Especially if you already have enough red and blue available, increases the green light the photosynthesis enormous.
Trust me your plants will love it!
I'm useing about 100w of ww & cw 5630 stripes and can cut every 20 days very good developed cuttings from my 4 mother plants. The growth is significantly faster than needed, lol.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Yeah!
You can reach the 6 amps, specified by the seller, only if you share the strip into multiple pieces. Using 10x 1m pieces(half cw/half ww, 2 rolls, each rated at 72w) and come with 10m to a total of 107W measured with a kill-a-watt!
The shorter the piece of stripe the better they perform! But they create also a lot more heat and it is necessary to use a simple alu-sheet to spread it. I got 45°C/113°F in continuous operation on the backsite of the 1mm sheet(400x 600mm).
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Have somebody tried this 85mm 30w disc's from ebay? Looks good so far and really cheap!
There are 83 SMD5730 in coolwhite on a 30w disc and the best, you can put it directly at 220v. No driver needed!
And 18$ for 3 pieces it is not too expensive IMO.
I have seen this typ of disc in some highbay lights, but they need better cooling as the stripes. A simple sheet is not enough, but a small 100x 100mm heatsink with a flat surface will do the job well.
The seller say it uses only 24w and have an output of 2.700-3.000lm, but I found them only in coolwhite!
There are 83 SMD5730 in coolwhite on a 30w disc and the best, you can put it directly at 220v. No driver needed!
And 18$ for 3 pieces it is not too expensive IMO.
I have seen this typ of disc in some highbay lights, but they need better cooling as the stripes. A simple sheet is not enough, but a small 100x 100mm heatsink with a flat surface will do the job well.
The seller say it uses only 24w and have an output of 2.700-3.000lm, but I found them only in coolwhite!
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Metacanna
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input Randomblame.
I guess a 1mm sheet won't be possible to use on my bucket as it would need to bend in order to cover the curvy interior. It makes sense what you said about the adhesive not being a good heat conductor but I will it give a try, I paid 3$ for 5 meters, won't hurt to try. Right now I have the 5630 glued directly to the plastic bucket drawing 40w to cover a 1 sq foot of growing area, I have one fan extracting air, the temperatures are stable between 23C-25C, I'm running 24/0.
Having this said, I'm expecting the aluminium tape to increase the performance of my leds by a small amount, once my new transformer arrives I will double the wattage inside the bucket, let's see what happens to the temperature.
When it comes to optimal ratios for growing cannabis things get really confusing as every source of information is contradictory. It seems there's some evidence on the advantages of covering a wider spectrum instead of just red and blue, but how significant is that? Any side by side comparison?
I guess a 1mm sheet won't be possible to use on my bucket as it would need to bend in order to cover the curvy interior. It makes sense what you said about the adhesive not being a good heat conductor but I will it give a try, I paid 3$ for 5 meters, won't hurt to try. Right now I have the 5630 glued directly to the plastic bucket drawing 40w to cover a 1 sq foot of growing area, I have one fan extracting air, the temperatures are stable between 23C-25C, I'm running 24/0.
Having this said, I'm expecting the aluminium tape to increase the performance of my leds by a small amount, once my new transformer arrives I will double the wattage inside the bucket, let's see what happens to the temperature.
When it comes to optimal ratios for growing cannabis things get really confusing as every source of information is contradictory. It seems there's some evidence on the advantages of covering a wider spectrum instead of just red and blue, but how significant is that? Any side by side comparison?
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Hmmm!
Manufacturers such as SanLight have used red and blue LED's in version 1/2013 and have now changed to white LED's in version 2/2014. If you look at current lamps from american or european manufacturers like Area51, not the crappy chinese junk, you will find the future is white or white + red 630 / 660nm.
Here are a few people who reach 1.3 g / w and more only with white or white / red LEDs.
Maybe 80w is a bit to much because of the constant distance you have. Under 15cm I get bleaching with 5630.
Manufacturers such as SanLight have used red and blue LED's in version 1/2013 and have now changed to white LED's in version 2/2014. If you look at current lamps from american or european manufacturers like Area51, not the crappy chinese junk, you will find the future is white or white + red 630 / 660nm.
Here are a few people who reach 1.3 g / w and more only with white or white / red LEDs.
Maybe 80w is a bit to much because of the constant distance you have. Under 15cm I get bleaching with 5630.
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Metacanna
Well-Known Member
Yes but those super white LEDs (Cree and Vero) come at a price tag! Is the spectrum and efficiency of those leds comparable with the white leds strips? Definitely this is asking for a few side by side comparisons. For the price we can get those leds strips today maybe I should stop bitching and just order some whites
I have my plants under 10cm and so far no bleaching. I have my leds strips one inch apart from each others covering the whole bucket, maybe that's why I don't get bleaching as there isn't any major focus of light in a particular area. By any chance could you show us a picture of your light set up? I'm curious to see how you are getting that bleaching.
After watching the video, definitely I have the cheapest. Those in particular are waterproof, that might reduce the output.
bicit
Well-Known Member
The vero and CXB series of cobs can be almost twice as effecient as the LED strips. The 3000, 3500, and 4000k have had great results with many members. However they do need a bit more space than the LED strips.Yes but those super white LEDs (Cree and Vero) come at a price tag! Is the spectrum and efficiency of those leds comparable with the white leds strips? Definitely this is asking for a few side by side comparisons. For the price we can get those leds strips today maybe I should stop bitching and just order some whites