First LED-Diy-Panel nEED hElp

MightyGreen

MightyGreen

Member
What do i want to archieve?
I want to replace my 400W Son-T-Pia-Plus with an LED-Panel that is efficient and cheap as possible.

Well i found a neat looking LED already LITEON LTPL-M03614ZS40-T0 http://www.tme.eu/de/Document/e39cefe548097c8158fd7ee61d91b231/LTPL-M03.pdf .
I plan on running at least 49 of those cause at 50mA and 33V they emit 236Lumen/Watt. 49 of them would be 80,85W in total and 19068Lumen, driven at 125mA and 34,4V they emit 170 Lumen/Watt which would result in 210,7W and 35819Lumen. The thing just is i dont have a clue if 49 of those LEDs would have enough power to penetrate through the canopy since at 50mA every LED has only 1,65W and/or if im missing something cause this just looks like a great deal Lumen/watt wise at an very reasonable price (3 bucks each). Biggy now for me is which driver to use. I was thinking about the HVGC-150-350A :LED-SNT,IP65,149,8W,428V/350mA running 7 LEDs in series * 7rows parallel, is there a way to build a failsafe so if one LED dies that the whole row will shut off instead running at higher mA ?
 
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Hey man, good find. Looking at the data sheet, I come up with similar numbers to what you found, at 50mA = 1.65W, 238lm/W, 73.5% efficient. At $3.09 each, that works out to $2.55/PAR W. If we assume those specs are accurate, it hugely outperforms anything Cree has ever offered. At higher currents it should offer a lower cost than the Vero 2.0.

It sure would be a lot of work to wire up a large lamp running at those currents, but where there is a will there is a way. The only problem, there seems to be no availability? and that PDF is dated 04/14.
 
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
As far as running the LEDs in 7X7 series parallel, as long as the voltage of each string is reasonable close, yes it would work and that driver would do the job. You could sort them into Vf groups to try and keep the voltage of each string as close as possible. Mr Flux did something similar with Vero10s I believe.
 
MightyGreen

MightyGreen

Member
Thx, ima look into his thread. Can u tell what is with the dimmability? If im not mistaken i can only regulate the Voltage, how does that play out since its a constant current shouldnt it always just push 350mA and do u know a failsafe that if one LED dies all LEDs in that particular row get shut off ?
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
From the PDF, looks like it has an internal pot that controls the current from 210-350mA. You could use the HLG-185H-C350A which is higher efficiency, cheaper and also dimmable.

As far as failsafe, one way would be a 35-40C (depending on your typical heatsink temps), normally closed thermal switch. So if one COB fails and send and part of the system into thermal runaway, the thermal switch would open and you can have it break the circuit on either the AC or DC side.
 
MightyGreen

MightyGreen

Member
So my order-list is nearly ready ima buy the HLG-185H-C700A (running at 350mA so ive got a little boost left to run them each at 100mA) and 28x 4000k and 21x 3000k Lite-On´s, 4x PROLIGHT OPTO PACB-9FWL-BC4P for veg and a HLG-80H-C350A. I read somewhere in this forum that silicone-glue will hurt the LEDs if im not mistaken and since they have the same egg-shell kinda thing going like the Crees what would be the best thermal way to mount them on alu-sinks ? I wanted to use the Arctic SIlver thermal adhesive or should i just use Keplon-tape ?
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
I use prolimatech PK3 paste (nano aluminum) and hold them in place with kapton tape. It works if you want to avoid drilling. Arctic silver 5 (ceramic based) will work just fine, although I hear it is "runnier" than PK3. So PK3 can be hard to work with in cold conditions and AS5 makes a bit more of a mess. Neither of them are sold as adhesives, so applying the kapton carefully to hold them in place is critical.

DSC07789a.jpg
 
MightyGreen

MightyGreen

Member
Well F**** me, i couldnt stop searching and stumbled on this http://optoelectronics.liteon.com/en-global/Light/lighting_led/SelectingToolsCalculating . The Tool from Lite On inc tells a whole nother story about those LEDs, @50ma it says 182 Lumen/Watt (lower then spec sheet) and @350mA 1629 Lumen@123Lumen/Watt (nearly 1k lower then spec sheet). I dont know which of them is more accurate and i cant decide now whether to buy them or to keep looking for other ones in the 190 Lumen/watt range -.-' .
 
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Dang go to love the inconsistency LOL. It happens often with many LED manufacturers. The Cree PCT often disagrees with their own PDF data curves. Stardustsailor has verified in a lab that CXAs do output more than their minimum values so we know the starting point os OK. So to take it the next step I have checked the current droop on CXA3070 and CXA3590 and it really is substantial. The lux/dissipation W gets much higher as I decrease current, even at very low current levels.

That said, the second set of data you came across makes a lot more sense fitting more closely with the other top tier COBs.
 
MightyGreen

MightyGreen

Member
Well i compared now nearly all to me available LEDs and came now up with these : ProLight Opto Tech PACC-18FVL-BC8P http://www.prolightopto.com/upload/DS-0136_18W_PACC-18FxL-xC8P _v1.3.pdf. @200mA and ~33,75V they emit around 170Lumen/Watt and the PACC-18FVL-DC8P http://www.prolightopto.com/upload/DS-0136_18W_PACC-18FxL-xC8P _v1.3.pdf that has a lower lumen output but the spectral chart looks interesting, reddish peak shifted from ~606nm to ~625nm and an overall more and deeper output in the red-spectrum.
 
MightyGreen

MightyGreen

Member
Man this is hard. I cant rly decide what LED to buy since im on a budget -.-' . What ya guys think about that LEDs i posted ? Or am i making to complicated for myself and should buy just a bunch of V29s, as i originally planned ? And is it even realistic that i can pull with 250-300W LED as much as with a 400W HPS(@0,8-0,9g/w) ?
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
Depends on what COBS you're running, how many, and the efficiency at which they run at.

What's your budget? Are you stateside?
 
MightyGreen

MightyGreen

Member
Budget for my flowering fixture would be 400$ (all set and done) and unfortunitly im not stateside, living in a country where they crackdown on mj-smoker/growers pretty harsh -.- .
 
medicinehuman

medicinehuman

Well-Known Member
MightyGreen said:
Man this is hard. I cant rly decide what LED to buy since im on a budget -.-' . What ya guys think about that LEDs i posted ? Or am i making to complicated for myself and should buy just a bunch of V29s, as i originally planned ? And is it even realistic that i can pull with 250-300W LED as much as with a 400W HPS(@0,8-0,9g/w) ?
Click to expand...
Go with your gut felling , if Veros is it just do it. Good luck to you.
 
MightyGreen

MightyGreen

Member
3 Options:
1.) 45x ProLight Opto Tech PACC-18FVL-BC8P
45x @ 6,528$ per LED = 293,76$ in total
@200mA x 33,8V = 6,74W @172Lm/W = 1159,28Lm per LED @45x = 52167,6Lumen @ 303,3W

2.) CXB3070-0000-000N0HAB30G ( only found AB-bin at a reasonable price, other vendors wanted 65+ for better binning -.-# )
8x @ 39,57$ per LED 0 316,56$ in total
@1100mA x 34,83V = 38,313W @151,7Lm/W = 5812,0821Lm per LED @8x = 46496,7Lumen @ 306,5W

3.) BXRC-30E10K0-L-23
Bridgeluxs product simulator is messed up, giving different results, playing with the mA gave better results lm/w wise then letting the program calculate the output for a fixed Lumen figure (~11Lm/W and ~2,1 W at 710mA), so i went with better results.
12x @ 24,81$ per LED = 297,72$ in total
@ 710mA x 35,3V = 25,1W @ 158Lm/W = 3975Lm per LED @12x 47589,6 Lumen @ 301,2W

What would u guys go for ?

Keeping in mind that:
Prolight = no mounts, reflectors and other goodies are available and that the panel will be a pain in the ass to build
Cree = mounts and reflectors are rare, but has the best upgrade potential (= most space left for more LEDs XD)
Vero29 = mounts and reflectors are found everywhere and also has a good upgrade potential

And i was thinking about applying https://www.doitbest.com/products/plasti-dip-tool-handle-coating when the panel is complete to protect it from a bypass, any thoughts ?

BTW: My budget went out the window XD gonne be more like 600$ now all set and done.
 
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
From the PFD data, assuming Tj 50C, taking current droop and Vf shift into account, using "typical" figures I get:
CXB3070 3K AB @ 1050mA, I get 157.6 lm/W and $2.26/PAR W (X5 with HLG-185-1050 driver or similar)
Vero 29 V2.0 3K @ 700mA I get 147.4 lm/W and cost $2.49/PAR W


Letting the Vero play to its strengths would mean running it harder and for CXB, running as soft as you want to afford:
CXB3070 3K AB @ 700mA, 170 lm/W and cost $3.23/PAR W (X8 with HLG-185H-C700)
Vero 29 V2.0 3K @ 1.05A 142.4 lm/W and cost $1.68/PAR W (X5 with HLG-185H-C1050)
Vero 29 V2.0 3K @ 2.1A, 127.2 lm/W and $0.90/PAR W (X1 with HLN-80H-42)
Vero 29 V2.0 3K @ 2.1A, 116.2 lm/W and $0.75/PAR W (X1 with HLN-80H-36)
 
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