Sealed system design...

[sinzane]

Hi all,

I am looking for some feedback regarding a sealed system design preferably from people who are experienced in this area...

I have an internal space of which I can fit an insulated and air tight sealed 8m x 6.5m x 2.5 high box within of which is a floor space of 52 square metres or 130 cubic metres

I have been in contact with an air conditioning guy that I know well for him to do a calculation based on 42 x 600W lights of which will be pretty much bang on 1 x 600W per square metre of grow area. He has calculated that a 130K BTU or 10.83 tons. He is currently designing an air sock of which will go round the outside of the top of the box and snake across the top also.

The ballasts will be digital and sit on top of the box roof and there will be 3 x thermostats of which will break the coils of the contactors should the temperature exceed 32 degrees centigrade

The lights will be fixed to 7 x steel catenary wires of which will be fixed at 1.5m from the floor each catenary wire will contain 6 x 600W lights

The floor of the box will have a huge pond liner on it of which will contain as many plants as possible (autos) as a sea of green in 10L pots using coco. They will be bottom flooded (I have tried this technique a few times and it works very well) The mix will be pumped in from outside the box

So the lights will be fixed at 1.5m of which will give me a 1m space above...

Within this 1m space there will be the air cons internal box of which the air socks come out of and 3 x 12" fans with 1m carbon filters to scrub the air and force the air around

On the ground level around the big pond liner there will be lots of oscillating fans

On the ground level at around canopy height I will have 2 x 120L a day dehumidifiers and a large humidifier all with there own humidity stats

As for the co2 I am planning on having 4 x 32kg canisters each with there own regulator being controlled by one controller (outside) with a Solid State NDIR sensor at around canopy height. Each regulator will deliver 17 litres of co2 a minute so will total 68 litres a minute. I am planning on putting the 4 x evenly spaced co2 pipes above the lights so the co2 falls and is then forced around by the fans.

Ideally I want to be able to change the 4 x 32kg co2 cylinders once a month and am planning on getting 8 of them so when they run out I can put 4 new ones on as I get the other 4 refilled. Does anyone have any idea how long the co2 might last?

I have a device I have made of which I am testing now that sends me an sms (text) message if the ppms exceed 1500ppms or drop below 800ppms. This should mean when the co2 runs out I will know about it...

Because I am doing autos the lights will be on 18 or 20 hours per 24 from start to finish.

If I put the split seeds straight into the 10L coco pots as I have done before I am not sure if they will be able to take this level of potential punishment in a closed environment?

I am hoping to run it at 1300ppms of co2 from start to finish? Or should I lower the ppms at the start?

any advice welcomed!

Thanks

 

[707humboldt]

Hi all,

I am looking for some feedback regarding a sealed system design preferably from people who are experienced in this area...

I have an internal space of which I can fit an insulated and air tight sealed 8m x 6.5m x 2.5 high box within of which is a floor space of 52 square metres or 130 cubic metres

I have been in contact with an air conditioning guy that I know well for him to do a calculation based on 42 x 600W lights of which will be pretty much bang on 1 x 600W per square metre of grow area. He has calculated that a 130K BTU or 10.83 tons. He is currently designing an air sock of which will go round the outside of the top of the box and snake across the top also.

The ballasts will be digital and sit on top of the box roof and there will be 3 x thermostats of which will break the coils of the contactors should the temperature exceed 32 degrees centigrade

The lights will be fixed to 7 x steel catenary wires of which will be fixed at 1.5m from the floor each catenary wire will contain 6 x 600W lights

The floor of the box will have a huge pond liner on it of which will contain as many plants as possible (autos) as a sea of green in 10L pots using coco. They will be bottom flooded (I have tried this technique a few times and it works very well) The mix will be pumped in from outside the box

So the lights will be fixed at 1.5m of which will give me a 1m space above...

Within this 1m space there will be the air cons internal box of which the air socks come out of and 3 x 12" fans with 1m carbon filters to scrub the air and force the air around

On the ground level around the big pond liner there will be lots of oscillating fans

On the ground level at around canopy height I will have 2 x 120L a day dehumidifiers and a large humidifier all with there own humidity stats

As for the co2 I am planning on having 4 x 32kg canisters each with there own regulator being controlled by one controller (outside) with a Solid State NDIR sensor at around canopy height. Each regulator will deliver 17 litres of co2 a minute so will total 68 litres a minute. I am planning on putting the 4 x evenly spaced co2 pipes above the lights so the co2 falls and is then forced around by the fans.

Ideally I want to be able to change the 4 x 32kg co2 cylinders once a month and am planning on getting 8 of them so when they run out I can put 4 new ones on as I get the other 4 refilled. Does anyone have any idea how long the co2 might last?

I have a device I have made of which I am testing now that sends me an sms (text) message if the ppms exceed 1500ppms or drop below 800ppms. This should mean when the co2 runs out I will know about it...

Because I am doing autos the lights will be on 18 or 20 hours per 24 from start to finish.

If I put the split seeds straight into the 10L coco pots as I have done before I am not sure if they will be able to take this level of potential punishment in a closed environment?

I am hoping to run it at 1300ppms of co2 from start to finish? Or should I lower the ppms at the start?

any advice welcomed!

Thanks

If this were my space

1. I would definitely use 1000s. You will be way happier and get a higher yield. Everyone I know with large spaces including my self use 1000s. Its the way to go for sure. 1000w DE is killing it in warehouse right now. As far as AC size, I calculate mine by 3-4k btu per air cooled 1000w or 5-6 btu per non air cooled light.

2. Photos are way better than autos, definitely in large spaces. You can control your canopy, veg time, and size of plants. Also imo photos will yield better and produce better quality than autos. You can't get the in demand strains in photos either. With that much product to move you are going to want strains that sell as soon as they are harvested. Also saves money on the power bill.

3. Co2 burners are way better in large spaces. They are more efficient and cost less to run. If you can hook it up to the natural gas line and you can set it and forget it. Never have to change any tanks out. If not, get a large propane tank and have a company deliver propane on a set schedule depending on how much you go through.

4. I keep co2 at 800 in veg and 1200 in flower


Just my personal opinion and experience.

 

[sinzane]

If this were my space

1. I would definitely use 1000s. You will be way happier and get a higher yield. Everyone I know with large spaces including my self use 1000s. Its the way to go for sure. 1000w DE is killing it in warehouse right now. As far as AC size, I calculate mine by 3-4k btu per air cooled 1000w or 5-6 btu per non air cooled light.

2. Photos are way better than autos, definitely in large spaces. You can control your canopy, veg time, and size of plants. Also imo photos will yield better and produce better quality than autos. You can't get the in demand strains in photos either. With that much product to move you are going to want strains that sell as soon as they are harvested. Also saves money on the power bill.

3. Co2 burners are way better in large spaces. They are more efficient and cost less to run. If you can hook it up to the natural gas line and you can set it and forget it. Never have to change any tanks out. If not, get a large propane tank and have a company deliver propane on a set schedule depending on how much you go through.

4. I keep co2 at 800 in veg and 1200 in flower


Just my personal opinion and experience.

Ive been doing autos for a while now...the strain I do is 10 weeks from split to harvest proper SOG 12-18 inch high...throw the split seeds direct into 10l pots with coco in and leave them to get right on with it, no tieing, no training etc etc...Ive done loads of photoperiods and I know I would get a lot more yield but I would need a lot more weeks that 10 from split to harvest!...its all time/weight dependant...

I like to work on the basis of 600W light per square metre...600W is the most efficient light in relation to running cost and output

As for the ppms...im not sure what the approach would be for autos..I switch to bloom nutes at week 5 - 5.5 so I would probably build up the ppms as they develop...

 

[sinzane]

I have guessed the size of the dehumidifiers at 2 x 120L a day which is around 2 x 240 pints? its more than likely overkill...where would it be best to put these on blocks raised off the floor above canopy height?

I am also wondering if a humidifier is going to be needed i.e a big misting machine? I was planning on putting one in to be safe as the 2 dehumidifiers and the humidifier will be on there own humidistats of the same manufacturer...

 

[707humboldt]

In a set up like that I would definitely be running a veg room. Then you could be harvesting every 8-9 weeks depending on strain. Just my opinion, with a large space figured you would want to maximize harvest after an expensive set up cost and high electric bills. Imo 1000w DE are the only way to go especially in large spaces. every one with a warehouse is setting up with these right now or upgrading their current standard 1000w hps to DE. Its hard to get them right now because of this, well worth it though. We're getting 15-20% yield increases with them which makes it totally worth the extra 400w on a large scale. Makes a huge difference in total yield at the end.

Running photos would cut your electric bill in half and increase your yield, win win situation. Only having to run lights 12/12 instead of 18 or 20.

As far as dehums, that should be sufficient. I would put one up high on one side of the room and one on the floor on the other side. You should be good as long as you have good air movement. I don't think a humidifier would be necessary imo. In larger rooms the substrate and plants put off a good amount of moisture in the air. I don't know though if you are going to be running your lights 20 hours. Humidity tends to be lower when lights are on. You might need one for when the plants are small. Sometimes my rooms can get a little low on RH (25-30) when the plants are little, but with in a couple weeks it gets a little higher (35-40) and the plants don't seem fazed by it either way. Its not going to hurt to have one, they don't cost that much.

You going to do what you want but this is just my personal opinion and experience. Ive seen a lot of warehouse set ups in cali and colorado and this is how they all are pretty much set up. Not trying to offend you man, good luck with everything