Chinese LED grow lights - worth it?

Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
bmdiyh said:
You know, the thing is I really understand why the COBs are the best option, but I first of all don't want to pay a lot which is how much the "brands" cost, I know they are good but I don't have the money. Secondly I am not really confident in my DIY skill, and I am not sure what will be the downside of me building my own light. Really I can't guaranty myself that what I build is going to last even until the first harvest. Really can't afford to pay a lot for electricity. So that's why I am looking for and alternative. And yes I see that this product is cheap, and it is not of the up most quality I can find, of course I do. Don't think that I don't listen to the advises I've read on this forum. But isn't it every man's dream to get the better and cheaper way to achieve good results. And I am really working on my ignorance on the topic Really! Please don't judge my questions, I only ask because I have hope that maybe I've found something that is worth it. That is how I learn.

I am really invested in what I am going to do. I want to gather as much information as I can, and if that means to be thought of as an idiot on a forum or two I am really fine with it. :roll:
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1st...I thought you were building a CXB bar project?
http://rollitup.org/t/led-cob-bar-project.874955/

So I guess I am confused about your direction and thought you had read enough to know what you were doing...

When @draz says 15.7%, that means 15.7 percent of the wattage goes into useable light [aka PAR aka photosynthetic active radiation from 300-800nm roughly]..... that the plant receives aka photons...the rest is converted into heat....

The way all of this is calculated is what's called the LER and stands for light emitting radiation....if the lamp had 100% efficiency, it would have a certain # of LER, this determines the efficacy aka luminous efficiency. @alesh has been gracious enough to keep providing this info, maybe he will be willing to correct any mistakes I make in trying to describe this clusterfudge :) :peace:

For example the The
cxb 3590 3K CB bin.The LER for this chip is 325 lumens/per watt .....@1.4 amps is 51.67% efficient..because it is emitting 167+ lumens /per watt....quite a jump from 64.....

Ok that was 3k, if we used an even bluer source, like 3500k or 4000k, since blue is more efficient than Red and technically a lower wattage of blue can be used to have the same output as a red of a higher wattage....this is important because back to the 3500k and 4k which are weighted more towards the blue spectrum [cool] even though they are warm white.....they are MORE efficient than the #'s above, just by bieng in a different spectrum, not wattage....

Why is that important?

Your fixture you mentioned above with 64/ lumens a watt....71% of its spectrum was in Red and the overall color temp was 1295K :)

Lots of red is inefficient and takes a lot of power to produce intensity [aka photons].....

add in inefficient drivers and thin or un-capable heatsinks within a small box, and its a ticking time bomb from a heat perspective...
 
bmdiyh

bmdiyh

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
1st...I thought you were building a CXB bar project?
http://rollitup.org/t/led-cob-bar-project.874955/

So I guess I am confused about your direction and thought you had read enough to know what you were doing...

When @draz says 15.7%, that means 15.7 percent of the wattage goes into useable light [aka PAR aka photosynthetic active radiation from 300-800nm roughly]..... that the plant receives aka photons...the rest is converted into heat....

The way all of this is calculated is what's called the LER and stands for light emitting radiation....if the lamp had 100% efficiency, it would have a certain # of LER, this determines the efficacy aka luminous efficiency. @alesh has been gracious enough to keep providing this info, maybe he will be willing to correct any mistakes I make in trying to describe this clusterfudge :) :peace:

For example the The
cxb 3590 3K CB bin.The LER for this chip is 325 lumens/per watt .....@1.4 amps is 51.67% efficient..because it is emitting 167+ lumens /per watt....quite a jump from 64.....

Ok that was 3k, if we used an even bluer source, like 3500k or 4000k, since blue is more efficient than Red and technically a lower wattage of blue can be used to have the same output as a red of a higher wattage....this is important because back to the 3500k and 4k which are weighted more towards the blue spectrum [cool] even though they are warm white.....they are MORE efficient than the #'s above, just by bieng in a different spectrum, not wattage....

Why is that important?

Your fixture you mentioned above with 64/ lumens a watt....71% of its spectrum was in Red and the overall color temp was 1295K :)

Lots of red is inefficient and takes a lot of power to produce intensity [aka photons].....

add in inefficient drivers and thin or un-capable heatsinks within a small box, and its a ticking time bomb from a heat perspective...
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I haven't given up on the DIY project. I just wanted to explore other cheap options, which apparently don't exist without sacrificing a lot of efficiency. I give up on trying to find a cheap light that would give me performance close to the CXBs.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
bmdiyh said:
I haven't given up on the DIY project. I just wanted to explore other cheap options, which apparently don't exist without sacrificing a lot of efficiency. I give up on trying to find a cheap light that would give me performance close to the CXBs.
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CMH and DE HID bulbs are the only 'cheaper' alternative to quality cobs. For now anyhow.

I'm personally looking forward to the day when the cheap crappy Chinese cobs are clocking in over 160lm/w
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
bmdiyh said:
I haven't given up on the DIY project. I just wanted to explore other cheap options, which apparently don't exist without sacrificing a lot of efficiency. I give up on trying to find a cheap light that would give me performance close to the CXBs.
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If it existed, everyone would be flocking to it..kind of thing, I hear yah...I started out with crap too, thats why I get so on the edge :joint: my bad

and....what about other diodes? CXBs are nice but there are other options with great efficiency


....I have the CXA3070AB 3K.....jerry at kingbrite has them 2x for $50.....about a $1.50/Par Watt @ 1050mA and $1/Par watt @ 1.4 amps.... [until 6 months ago or so before the CXB's came out, these were all the rage].....still maintain 40+% efficiency @ 1.4 amps....

The Vero lineup has a great price point too...


As far as building a fixture...they are very easy and allow for a lot of tolerance.....most of the precision work has been built into the circuitry and is already done...

Get some metal for a heatsink

Buy Thermal interface material , smear onto backside of COB

Drill holes for Cob/Holders ./ Use Kapton Tape for Hold-down

Push COB onto Metal heatsink device, with paste smeared evenly and thinly over entire back of COB surface.....

Final mount with either screws or Tape

- If you used Holders or Pico Ez Mate harnessess for Vero, install wire now

Wire Drivers....Cover connection to Mains with 2x layers of insulation[1.Wago 2. circuit box]

Fuse between Driver and Mains just above amperage of each Driver....

For Extra safety
Wire a thermistor
Wire a thermal fuse
Wire a thermocouple

Wire A MOV
Wire a Disc Fuse

Ground to case

Use GFCI
even Better AFCI w/GFCI

I wish you would go DIY, not as hard as you think :peace:
 
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kmog33

kmog33

Well-Known Member
bmdiyh said:
I will be doing SOG so my plants are not going to be tall. So much for penetration.... I planning to keep them as close as possible to the plants (of course without risking damage to the foliage).

Of course I know getting COBs be the better decision. I have the option to build a COB lights for a bit more than I would pay for 10 of the the mentioned fixtures, but I keep thinking that if I buy enough low quality lights like these, a lot more then the manufacturer and the seller are recommending for that kind of space, I would be able to get a good yield out of them. And it'll still be a 1300W setup for flowering, which is not that much for electricity.
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bmdiyh said:
I will be doing SOG so my plants are not going to be tall. So much for penetration.... I planning to keep them as close as possible to the plants (of course without risking damage to the foliage).

Of course I know getting COBs be the better decision. I have the option to build a COB lights for a bit more than I would pay for 10 of the the mentioned fixtures, but I keep thinking that if I buy enough low quality lights like these, a lot more then the manufacturer and the seller are recommending for that kind of space, I would be able to get a good yield out of them. And it'll still be a 1300W setup for flowering, which is not that much for electricity.
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if youre planning on running 1300 watts (rated) of led, youre way better off going with 1200 watts(actual watts 2x600) hps. your 1300 watt led panels will only pull between 500-700 watts of actual draw and your yield will be crap comparably. If you want to run personals with the chinese leds, you will be much less disappointed, But the 1300 watts of led youre talking about if you pull a gpw will only be "about a pound", whereas with 2 600 watt hps it would be very hard to pull less than quite a bit more than that, unless you fuck everything up(which can happen), but you should pull 1.5 pretty easily off two 600s, even with small yielding strains.(i get 1.5 to just over 2 per 600).

Again i state, your chinese panel you found will grow bud. Could you spend way less money and do better with the same wattage you are trying to run? Very easily.

You can listen to the guys here that have given you all the info you need to make this decision, or you can come back and tell us that you should have listened after, I see it all the time here.

Will your chinese panel grow good buds = YES
Could you spend less and do better = YES
 
bmdiyh

bmdiyh

Well-Known Member
I get it, I am back on the right track! ;)

Even if I am planning to go with the Cree chips which I am. The question remains: Is it reliable to buy the Cree chips from the chinese sites? Alibaba is selling the CXB 3590 CD 3500K, at least it is listed as that. Will they have them... or just send me something else? FIY still looking for a cheaper option, even with the quality COBs.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
bmdiyh said:
I get it, I am back on the right track! ;)

Even if I am planning to go with the Cree chips which I am. The question remains: Is it reliable to buy the Cree chips from the chinese sites? Alibaba is selling the CXB 3590 CD 3500K, at least it is listed as that. Will they have them... or just send me something else? FIY still looking for a cheaper option, even with the quality COBs.
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Kingbrite has the best prices for vero and cxb chips right now.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
bmdiyh said:
I get it, I am back on the right track! ;)

Even if I am planning to go with the Cree chips which I am. The question remains: Is it reliable to buy the Cree chips from the chinese sites? Alibaba is selling the CXB 3590 CD 3500K, at least it is listed as that. Will they have them... or just send me something else? FIY still looking for a cheaper option, even with the quality COBs.
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I bought my CXA's on Alibaba, when they cost as much as CXB's! And they turned out great....Kingbrite on Alibaba is definitely trustworthy imho....:peace:

@REALSTYLES
dropped a new link for them recently? :joint:
 
bmdiyh

bmdiyh

Well-Known Member
bicit said:
Kingbrite has the best prices for vero and cxb chips right now.
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Abiqua said:
I bought my CXA's on Alibaba, when they cost as much as CXB's! And they turned out great....Kingbrite on Alibaba is definitely trustworthy imho....:peace:

@REALSTYLES
dropped a new link for them recently? :joint:
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Great! That was my plan to, before the Chinese grow light fiasco. Then when time comes Kingbrite are the people! good that I have already made contact with one guy from their alibaba team. ;)
 
T

thisblackgenius

New Member
bmdiyh said:
Really?! I feel like I am talking to myself. :? Or is this thread becoming let's deny alibaba and everything that is related to it.
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Don't feel bad, I've been searching for a real response myself. Let us chat more. I bought one and we can give the curious people who are too busy stating opinions so results. Inbox me please.
 
T

thisblackgenius

New Member
oldtimer54 said:
You'll never get a consensus here. For every pro there will be an equal amount of cons.......research is your friend and at the end you'll still be unsure but at least you'll be informed. Purchase what you want to.....I'm still using the cheap lights I first purchased that were belittled by some and praised by others.....What I'm trying to convey to you is Buy WTF you want and don't worry about anyone else after all its your money and it'll be your product!
Good luck to you my friend
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I did the same thing.
 
D

Dave455

Well-Known Member
bicit said:
'What' exactly makes it 'look' like it might work well? This is a genuine question, without knowing more what's making you consider buying this light? What about it appeals to you? How does this one stand out from the rest of the Chinese panels?

I just thought I'd let you know, most on this board aren't against Chinese panels because they're made in china. It's because they are usually very crappy led panels. They're typically over driven and under-cooled. Most use generic epistar or worse LED's, even if they do use 'name brand' led's they're usually bottom bin components. The warranty is usually dodgy if you get one at all.

That's not to say they won't grow a plant. They will indeed, but so will incandescent bulbs if you got enough of them. See what I'm getting at? I'm sorry to inform you, but there is no secret spectrum recipe. It's a long disproven myth that only red and blue photons are needed to grow plants. No 'spectrum' is going to overcome getting the required number of photons/s/M^2. The Chinese panels are usually very crappy at converting electrical energy into photons compared to HID or cree/bridgelux COB's
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Where do you think quantum boards are made ?
 
davillains

davillains

Well-Known Member
sidenote on disco blurples ... I got 120 grams dry (4.2oz) from one plant with a 135w (from the wall) blurple. It was a 200 * 3w chip noname panel. I bought it for around $100 from eBay 2 years ago. Had to replace a few burned out zenner diodes and leds along the way but it's still operational. My point is, dont propagate bullshit you've heard just because it's popular opinion. Try yourself then form an opinion.
 
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