Help me understand Dolomite lime!

[Dr. Who]

The reason I believe magnesium carbonate may have more effect on ph than calcium carbonate is from researching my water. After installing a RO filter my water ph went from 9.5 to 9.2. As it turned out there are very few ions left in the filtered water and the ph changes dramatically with most inputs, just like RO water is supposed to do. But anyway in the course of researching the reason the ph remained so high, what i found was that magnesium carbonate had a greater effect at low ppm than calcium carbonate alone. Not that it makes a hill of beans difference in our pots, lol. But I did find that interesting.

On gypsum or adding sulfur to our soil. I've found that adding small amounts of sulfur to be beneficial in the final product. I add gypsum in the mix and top dress with it a couple times per year. I also use neem meal, and that has a significant amount of sulfur as well. What I noticed was enhanced smell/taste than without. YMMV

I didn't read your whole post till today......I must say the smell/taste connection you found with S is exactly correct!
Now If you increase your Mg along with your S, just before and during flower - You will increase your trich's too.

Doc

 

[Nullis]

The reason I believe magnesium carbonate may have more effect on ph than calcium carbonate is from researching my water. After installing a RO filter my water ph went from 9.5 to 9.2. As it turned out there are very few ions left in the filtered water and the ph changes dramatically with most inputs, just like RO water is supposed to do. But anyway in the course of researching the reason the ph remained so high, what i found was that magnesium carbonate had a greater effect at low ppm than calcium carbonate alone. Not that it makes a hill of beans difference in our pots, lol. But I did find that interesting.

On gypsum or adding sulfur to our soil. I've found that adding small amounts of sulfur to be beneficial in the final product. I add gypsum in the mix and top dress with it a couple times per year. I also use neem meal, and that has a significant amount of sulfur as well. What I noticed was enhanced smell/taste than without. YMMV

It is correct that magnesium carbonate has a higher CCE and more neutralizing ability that calcium carbonate by weight (Mg is a lighter element). Pure magnesium carbonate would have a CCE of about 119 and pure dolomite has a CCE of 108. The thing is that nobody uses pure magnesite for liming and pure dolomite for liming is also fairly rare AFAIK.

Say you had a dolomitic lime with a CCE of 105... if you really wanted to be technical/fussy about it you might apply about 5% less material than if it was pure calcium carbonate. Oyster shell flour probably has a CCE of about 95%, so if one were to switch to dolomitic they might want to apply about 9% less material. 5 to 9% isn't exactly negligible as numbers go, but as far as lime goes it sort of is (that would be like a tablespoon less per cup). Still this is why it is good to be aware of CCE and the CCE of your liming materials. If you wanted to get real technical there is ENV (effective neutralizing value) which accounts for the fineness of the particles (which influences reaction rate). Those values probably aren't as readily available for the material you are using though, unless it's on the packaging.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I didnt mean to be a smart ass. I saw in other theads, you encouraged people to start peeing in buckets. I would imagine that it would kill the fungus on the wood. Compost it to charge it?

I was having a combination of problems, container size being one. I am trying to learn still.

sorry I somehow missed this post, sure, you could charge it with any nitrogen input, alfalfa, comfrey/dandelion/nettles, bloodmeal (yuck)urine, manures, guanos, anything really, the point is to simply "fill" it prior, that way it doesn't absorb anything from your soil, i'm pretty sure it doesn't anyways, as the wood is rather composted and fully "rotten" at that point, probably doesn't rob anything from your soil, but I don't know that, and even so if the wood is "charged" it'll have small pockets of nitrogen that release to the plant as it goes, couldn't imagine it hurting them.
I treat it the same way as I did the biochar.
Also ya gotta remember the way you use urine is extremely diluted, and even diluted it's roughly a 15-0-0 nutrient.
I used a dandelion ferment for mine, but you could absolutely use urine, no doubt.
I wasn't "encouraging" people to use it, exactly, just saying it's a valuable tool to utilize, especially on outdoor plants, or anything that's super fast growing. I'd use it allllll day over bloodmeal.
you should see what it does to bamboo and dahlia trees.
It's funny because people will use seabird guano but frown on urine.
you know what seabirds eat? not to mention the reason seabird guano is high in nitrogen is because they frigging don't have separate urinary tracts for that, so in reality what seabird guano is, is in fact mixed seabird urine and seabird droppings.
Plus, when I did use it, I always popped a multivitamin prior, just for the hell of it.

 

[Nullis]

It's funny because people will use seabird guano but frown on urine.
you know what seabirds eat? not to mention the reason seabird guano is high in nitrogen is because they frigging don't have separate urinary tracts for that, so in reality what seabird guano is, is in fact mixed seabird urine and seabird droppings.
Plus, when I did use it, I always popped a multivitamin prior, just for the hell of it.

Seabirds have very diverse diets; fish, insects, etc. Fossilized/mineralized guano is aged anyways and usually harvested by vacuuming out of caves so it contains decayed insects, minerals from other sources, whatever remnants of material are also in the cave. As for urine in the droppings, the same is true of poultry and even steer\cow manure and other kinds of animal bedding (e.g. rabbit) which can still be composted.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Seabirds have very diverse diets; fish, insects, etc. Fossilized/mineralized guano is aged anyways and usually harvested by vacuuming out of caves so it contains decayed insects, minerals from other sources, whatever remnants of material are also in the cave. As for urine in the droppings, the same is true of poultry and even steer\cow manure and other kinds of animal bedding (e.g. rabbit) which can still be composted.

nah my point was more towards all the sea-garbage they consume.
I've personally seen what seagulls can and will eat, and their diet isn't nearly as good as mine is.
My point was more towards the fact that some organic growers severely frown on urine as a nutrient but yet are totally ok with urine from questionable sources.
I do understand that the byproduct from humans as opposed to birds is in more of a urea form , but it's readily useable to the plant either way.
I still have three bags of guanos from years and years ago, I LOVE to use it in my compost pile, layer that with fish bone meal, and fish meal, then leaves, then fresh alfalfa, then kelp meal, leaves and then repeat.
five months later you have the best damn stuff you could ever want for a plant.

 

[MustangStudFarm]

nah my point was more towards all the sea-garbage they consume.
I've personally seen what seagulls can and will eat, and their diet isn't nearly as good as mine is.
My point was more towards the fact that some organic growers severely frown on urine as a nutrient but yet are totally ok with urine from questionable sources.
I do understand that the byproduct from humans as opposed to birds is in more of a urea form , but it's readily useable to the plant either way.
I still have three bags of guanos from years and years ago, I LOVE to use it in my compost pile, layer that with fish bone meal, and fish meal, then leaves, then fresh alfalfa, then kelp meal, leaves and then repeat.
five months later you have the best damn stuff you could ever want for a plant.

I guess you dont know me that well. I would enjoy pissing on some biochar, just to say that I did it lol. I think it is a novel idea. I drink too much coffee and my pee smells like an expresso, high N? Whatever lol.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I guess you dont know me that well. I would enjoy pissing on some biochar, just to say that I did it lol. I think it is a novel idea. I drink too much coffee and my pee smells like an expresso, high N? Whatever lol.

I hear ya there, after my 40 oz of morning coffee it smells stronger on the way out than it did brewing.
pop a couple multivitamins and who knows how well-rounded it could be.
just remember add four gallons to it first. and DONT let it sit... use immediately.
Any fast growing green plant will love it.
I can attest to bamboo, jasmine, lavender, horsetail, aloe, cannabis, philodendrons (diluted), clerodendrons, comfrey, etc.
they all love it, hell I watered my yellowing grass with it once and it rebounded in like two days. With no smell I might add.

 

[Nullis]

nah my point was more towards all the sea-garbage they consume.
I've personally seen what seagulls can and will eat, and their diet isn't nearly as good as mine is.
My point was more towards the fact that some organic growers severely frown on urine as a nutrient but yet are totally ok with urine from questionable sources.

The problem with human urine is more pharmaceutical and other metabolites. Some antibiotics are actually excreted largely unchanged through urine.

Seabird guano really isn't supposed to come from seagulls, though. Peruvian seabird guano for example comes mainly from Peruvian booby and Guanay cormorant. Both of these birds eat fish like anchovy, inca scad, mackerel, etc.

 

[Dr. Who]

Human pee is a resource of last resort......compared to any other mammal - SALTY!
Now go follow your dog around with a pan......LOL
Cows piss big! Bring a bucket!

Doc

 

[AnimalMother1974]

O
I don't use oyster shell because I have a very similar material that I can produce myself from a kitchen by-product. It's called egg shell. So my liming mix is 50% pulverized egg shell and 50% dolomitic limestone. I also qualified that I personally use very pure rain water, not tap water as I am well aware that tap water (especially on the West coast) has a good mineral content (hard water, lime dissolved in the water). Balance is more the concern of the soil biota than mine.

Would 100% pure crushed egg shell work just as well? Is there a reason you add 50% lime 50% egg shell?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

the calcium from eggshell takes a while to leach out, i'm guessing the lime is for right now, the eggshell is for when the lime runs out?

 

[ShLUbY]

Would 100% pure crushed egg shell work just as well? Is there a reason you add 50% lime 50% egg shell?

they're basically the same thing. with acidic waterings or acidic soil conditions like a peat based mix, the acid will dissolve the CaCO3 in the lime or the egg shell, creating a reaction that has the products of water (H2O), CO2, and free calcium cations (Ca++). as you can see, 2 hydrogen cations have been neutralized to make water, and the remaining C and O make CO2.

so eggshell, dolomite lime (which has a similar reaction releasing Mg), and oyster shell flour, will all act as a buffering agent for you.