Why do some guys wats to still use mono led with cobs?
- Thread starter REALSTYLES
- Start date
KarmaPaymentPlan
Well-Known Member
This
this is all very familiar to when real tried to piss on the community cause he dumped a bunch of money on mars. Just because you don't understand/wanna learn something new, doesn't mean you gotta start shit act your age with some style
The Dawg
Well-Known Member
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
It hasn't changed!!! That's the point...they are still phosphor conversion white leds. I'm all about cobs, they are great. But not the only thing. Either way, plants still want little tweaks to that base, which is where monos come in. Again...I don't care what makes it...maybe a mix of 80 and 90 cri. But monos are, like you, getting to the point better than a hail marry.
Dude...the at120 was built in 2010...leading the way. With NICHIA...top white LED maker in the world for a long time.
We are not talking about apache's price...they sell to high end customers and as with everything, aren't at MSRP. We are talking about their spectrum and quality builds and components. The first to do an all white and white and red combo. And the 200 and 600 are using newer chips, which just like the at120, were top of the line when released. 39% efficiency, tuned plant physiologist and nasa ames verified spectrums, meanwells, and quality lens systems. They are built like tanks, can take falls from 8ft. Massive heatsinks, aluminum housings. San jose, CA made. Apache has a lot going for them, and tech improvements to take advantage of still(219c's). But they also are stuck in some things, but that is their deal.
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Scotch089
Well-Known Member
Realstyles I do want to make sure you know I was not meaning to attack you earlier I know how tones come off, and want to keep this thread alive lol.
Ttykstick and real. I think every single one of us can agree that we dont see cobs going anywhere anytime soon, at least we hope not. All of us, have changed SOMETHING, if not everything about our lighting, some have made lives out of a passion, some just have a passion for testing em and finding each nuance between said spectra for the sole purpose of knowing. Let me just come out and say it....
I. Love. Cobs.
I cut my power draw in 30-50%....and I was using leds at the time, hell, relatively up to date leds too.
But it allowed me to make my lights exactly how I want... because it meant not soldering 200 xmls or what have yah.
[Green said it and wasn't heard....again lol so lemme..] but the cobs we are talking about, or what we talk about using them for, makes them an entire separate part of the equation than monochromatic leds... the 3070 and 3590 are what you attempt to compare to the xml2, xpl, the xyz234 chip (white vs white)...lol not even a fair fight....
For some of us that started with blurple spectrum (real) you understand that we've come a long way to accept white is a very GOOD thing for leds. From hans only adding TWO to the panel, but he knew the wide helped the narrow absorb...all the way to AT who used predominantly whites, years before cobs, and A51 who also was on the wagon becausee they knew something....
....now, I invested my money in some of those companies because I thought, these guys have to know something I dont....
And every know and again we get lucky enough for documents to grt posted here that we are 1 too lazy enough to go find ourselves (me) or 2 have no access to some of these or don't don't know where to look (me, me)
I could see where some people want to keep it simple. Easy, intense, simple. That's for building the light.
White is fantastic, very NATURAL. But we all know there is more to it than that... "why is the sun so perfect?" "is it?" "why is it?" "well why does that help?" "We'll does this being on too help?" whether being a firm believer in CRI, spectrum, intensity, whatever...they all matter. Adding reds or blues or greens.. it's finding out. And if you read around, you can understand a pretty fair amount and apply it.
Knowing (edit) will help you decide what is going to help (Whether you know it to be fact, or opinion...)
Sorry for the long post, I just wanna keep the forums constructive, an on off message so if shit doesn't make sense, yea
Ttykstick and real. I think every single one of us can agree that we dont see cobs going anywhere anytime soon, at least we hope not. All of us, have changed SOMETHING, if not everything about our lighting, some have made lives out of a passion, some just have a passion for testing em and finding each nuance between said spectra for the sole purpose of knowing. Let me just come out and say it....
I. Love. Cobs.
I cut my power draw in 30-50%....and I was using leds at the time, hell, relatively up to date leds too.
But it allowed me to make my lights exactly how I want... because it meant not soldering 200 xmls or what have yah.
[Green said it and wasn't heard....again lol so lemme..] but the cobs we are talking about, or what we talk about using them for, makes them an entire separate part of the equation than monochromatic leds... the 3070 and 3590 are what you attempt to compare to the xml2, xpl, the xyz234 chip (white vs white)...lol not even a fair fight....
For some of us that started with blurple spectrum (real) you understand that we've come a long way to accept white is a very GOOD thing for leds. From hans only adding TWO to the panel, but he knew the wide helped the narrow absorb...all the way to AT who used predominantly whites, years before cobs, and A51 who also was on the wagon becausee they knew something....
....now, I invested my money in some of those companies because I thought, these guys have to know something I dont....
And every know and again we get lucky enough for documents to grt posted here that we are 1 too lazy enough to go find ourselves (me) or 2 have no access to some of these or don't don't know where to look (me, me)
I could see where some people want to keep it simple. Easy, intense, simple. That's for building the light.
White is fantastic, very NATURAL. But we all know there is more to it than that... "why is the sun so perfect?" "is it?" "why is it?" "well why does that help?" "We'll does this being on too help?" whether being a firm believer in CRI, spectrum, intensity, whatever...they all matter. Adding reds or blues or greens.. it's finding out. And if you read around, you can understand a pretty fair amount and apply it.
Knowing (edit) will help you decide what is going to help (Whether you know it to be fact, or opinion...)
Sorry for the long post, I just wanna keep the forums constructive, an on off message so if shit doesn't make sense, yea
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cdgmoney250
Well-Known Member
Is there an example of an artificial light source outperforming Mother Nature?
The Dawg
Well-Known Member
Scotch089
Well-Known Member
https://www.rollitup.org/t/well-some-news.744263/#post-9763522
^^^Good blues section in the first page.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/photosynthesis-under-solid-state-light-setting-the-standards.833449/
^^^^ a "recent" must read
https://www.rollitup.org/t/various-led-testing-and-extracting-data.833907/#post-10613046
^^^a diy calculator...!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/c-o-b-s-s-l-news-and-articles.848298/
^^^ a cob lovers play ground
https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-far-red-thread.867665/page-7#post-11569117
The far red thread...
All gold mines, just gotta find the good posts..
^^^Good blues section in the first page.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/photosynthesis-under-solid-state-light-setting-the-standards.833449/
^^^^ a "recent" must read
https://www.rollitup.org/t/various-led-testing-and-extracting-data.833907/#post-10613046
^^^a diy calculator...!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/c-o-b-s-s-l-news-and-articles.848298/
^^^ a cob lovers play ground
https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-far-red-thread.867665/page-7#post-11569117
The far red thread...
All gold mines, just gotta find the good posts..
bicit
Well-Known Member
Depends on what quality you're wanting specifically but yeah it can be done. More consistently too since grow rooms don't have clouds or seasons.
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
I wonder though if you had the perfect environment with the sun as a light source could artificial lighting beat the sun if both where at the same intensity level? Can we manipulate the plant to give us more quality and quantity by changing Spectrum? Will there be tradeoffs? This is all very interesting indeed and opens up my mind to a whole lot of pondering for sure.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
same heatsinks over the last 7 years:
-> 
-> 
-> 
-> 
-> 
-> 
efficiency for me started at 26% -> 30% -> 40% -> 45% -> 50% (CXA3070 3K) -> 55% (CXB3070 3K ) -> 59% (CXB3590 3K) -> 64% (CXB3590 3500K)
cost / PAR W started at ~$18 for top bin monos in 2009 -> ~$5/PAR W for top bin monos in 2012 -> $4.05 (CXA3070 3K) -> $2.91 (CXB3070 3K ) -> $3.53 (CXB3590 3K) -> $3.10 (CXB3590 3500K)
Here are todays best mono deals, in terms of retail availability, running soft. You may be able to get reels of some of these for a heck of a lot cheaper at this point
Luxeon ES 450nm royal blue N4R bin @ Steves LEDs for $2.50 ea. If you run them at 350mA they are 70% efficient, cost $3.62/PAR W
Cree XPE 630 red P3 bin $2.25 ea at mouser. running at 350mA they are 49.5% efficient, cost $6.38/PAR W
Cree XPE2 630 red P4 bin $2.75 ea at mouser running at 350 mA they are 50.5% efficient, cost $7.22/PAR W.
Oslon SSL 655nm hyper red $2.25 ea mouser, running at 350mA they are 47.5% efficient, cost $5.80/PAR W.
So that is about $5.50/PAR for DIYers to get 50% efficiency from monos. If you were willing to spend $5.50/PAR W your COBs, the lamp would be over 70% efficient at 230 lumens/W.
-> -> -> -> -> -> efficiency for me started at 26% -> 30% -> 40% -> 45% -> 50% (CXA3070 3K) -> 55% (CXB3070 3K ) -> 59% (CXB3590 3K) -> 64% (CXB3590 3500K)
cost / PAR W started at ~$18 for top bin monos in 2009 -> ~$5/PAR W for top bin monos in 2012 -> $4.05 (CXA3070 3K) -> $2.91 (CXB3070 3K ) -> $3.53 (CXB3590 3K) -> $3.10 (CXB3590 3500K)
Here are todays best mono deals, in terms of retail availability, running soft. You may be able to get reels of some of these for a heck of a lot cheaper at this point
Luxeon ES 450nm royal blue N4R bin @ Steves LEDs for $2.50 ea. If you run them at 350mA they are 70% efficient, cost $3.62/PAR W
Cree XPE 630 red P3 bin $2.25 ea at mouser. running at 350mA they are 49.5% efficient, cost $6.38/PAR W
Cree XPE2 630 red P4 bin $2.75 ea at mouser running at 350 mA they are 50.5% efficient, cost $7.22/PAR W.
Oslon SSL 655nm hyper red $2.25 ea mouser, running at 350mA they are 47.5% efficient, cost $5.80/PAR W.
So that is about $5.50/PAR for DIYers to get 50% efficiency from monos. If you were willing to spend $5.50/PAR W your COBs, the lamp would be over 70% efficient at 230 lumens/W.
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SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
As far as photomorphogenesis, leaves stems, flower ratio etc. It is not a problem with straight COBs at 3000K 3500K or 4000K
Durban X Kodiak finished
Mango at 46 days
All that said, if we could get a deep red mono with built in 80 degree lens, that was 55% efficient and cost $3/PAR W, I might add a few to use up the extra voltage on my drivers.
Durban X Kodiak finished
Mango at 46 days
All that said, if we could get a deep red mono with built in 80 degree lens, that was 55% efficient and cost $3/PAR W, I might add a few to use up the extra voltage on my drivers.
littlejacob
Well-Known Member
Bonjour
I want to say cobs do not need any monos but...When you know company like AT and Isled (very expensive! ) it is clear that monos have some advantage!
I am sure a good combination of both is the key to mega yields!
This said...it is easier in every way to make a cob pannel...
I did like to know how much an 150w Isled bar would cost in diy...!?!?
And how long time does it take! ?
And for diy monos (if you're not a pro!) You will need an exemple...you can't put diodes where you want...it has to be made in a specific way...with specific nm...at a specific ratio...and hanged at the good distance to mix the colors...lots of constraints...not for me!
But I will definitely try UVb and 730nm (lights off!).but to be sure it improve the grow I try without before!
And with only 4x3590 3500ºk 36V CD @1400mA over a 3.5x3.5 I push the test to the max (it is hard cause I have another one ready to build but I know if I built it I will use it...) before adding more watt/cobs! (I want to be sure ×2 the lights will give me X2 gpw!)
And then take some clones and try 730nm to be sure it make flo shorter! (Isled assure that with their new bloom bars 3.5 you could gain 1 week to 12 days on bloom with same results! )
Have a great day ★
I want to say cobs do not need any monos but...When you know company like AT and Isled (very expensive! ) it is clear that monos have some advantage!
I am sure a good combination of both is the key to mega yields!
This said...it is easier in every way to make a cob pannel...
I did like to know how much an 150w Isled bar would cost in diy...!?!?
And how long time does it take! ?
And for diy monos (if you're not a pro!) You will need an exemple...you can't put diodes where you want...it has to be made in a specific way...with specific nm...at a specific ratio...and hanged at the good distance to mix the colors...lots of constraints...not for me!
But I will definitely try UVb and 730nm (lights off!).but to be sure it improve the grow I try without before!
And with only 4x3590 3500ºk 36V CD @1400mA over a 3.5x3.5 I push the test to the max (it is hard cause I have another one ready to build but I know if I built it I will use it...) before adding more watt/cobs! (I want to be sure ×2 the lights will give me X2 gpw!)
And then take some clones and try 730nm to be sure it make flo shorter! (Isled assure that with their new bloom bars 3.5 you could gain 1 week to 12 days on bloom with same results! )
Have a great day ★
littlejacob
Well-Known Member
with all due respect photomorphogeneis is a lot more than leaf\stem\\flower ratio. if you really want an effective argument on "efficiency" and cob spectrum averaging 70-80 cri is better than an enhanced spectrum you will need to do a side by side grow and show us.
oh pretty cool that 70% royal blue efficiency!
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REALSTYLES
Well-Known Member
OLD MOTHER SATIVA
Well-Known Member
spectrumking use mostly whites and no cobs?
so cobs are more handy and cheaper in the long run..thats why people are so keen?
yes the new reflectors and lenses are interesting..do you think they bring much to the improvement table
ps. i do not want to to dys..thats why i got the highbay and bars made..
so cobs are more handy and cheaper in the long run..thats why people are so keen?
yes the new reflectors and lenses are interesting..do you think they bring much to the improvement table
ps. i do not want to to dys..thats why i got the highbay and bars made..