Ro water and nutrients in soil

dscorpion

dscorpion

Well-Known Member
Hi all, I have very hard water also, over 600ppm going to 700ppms and it's full of Ca carbonate. During flowering I've had always yellowing issues what seems to be Mg def. I think spraying epsom salts every 3-4 days helps a little, but I'm planning to get a permament solution and get a ro system.
What I've read from the forums it's good to get some Ph buffer ~150ppm, is it better to get it from tap or using calmag product?

And another thing what's asked thousands of times:
Currently using biobizz nutes but is it ideal growing organic indoors with pots? I've been thinking mby to try out non organic soil nutes currently thinking about switching to Plant Magic, Canna or GH. Any recommendations+tips much appreciated. I'm looking to get a complete nutrient formula to use with ro and not have any deficiencies.

Currently I'm using no brand organic potting soil and I've started feeding after switch giving weekly 1ml/L bio grow and 1-3ml/L bio bloom increasing gradually watering once or twice a week depending how dry the soil feels. Plus 1ml/L top max.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
dscorpion said:
Hi all, I have very hard water also, over 600ppm going to 700ppms and it's full of Ca carbonate. During flowering I've had always yellowing issues what seems to be Mg def. I think spraying epsom salts every 3-4 days helps a little, but I'm planning to get a permament solution and get a ro system.
What I've read from the forums it's good to get some Ph buffer ~150ppm, is it better to get it from tap or using calmag product?

And another thing what's asked thousands of times:
Currently using biobizz nutes but is it ideal growing organic indoors with pots? I've been thinking mby to try out non organic soil nutes currently thinking about switching to Plant Magic, Canna or GH. Any recommendations+tips much appreciated. I'm looking to get a complete nutrient formula to use with ro and not have any deficiencies.

Currently I'm using no brand organic potting soil and I've started feeding after switch giving weekly 1ml/L bio grow and 1-3ml/L bio bloom increasing gradually watering once or twice a week depending how dry the soil feels. Plus 1ml/L top max.
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RO water - true RO - usually has a pH of 5.0 -6.0. People use pH Down to get tapwater to that range. What do mean by a pH buffer? Usually adding nutes to the water also alters the pH in some way.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
And in soil? I never bother with pH in soil. I'll hear about it but who cares? And I have tapwater with a PPM of 800 mostly magnesium and calcium. I use a combination of RO and tap to keep my starting EC low but water with plain tapwater. The mag and calcium deficits are pretty rare here doing that. It keeps the cost per gallon down too. RO membranes are not cheap to replace.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
dscorpion said:
What I've read from the forums it's good to get some Ph buffer ~150ppm, is it better to get it from tap or using calmag product?
Click to expand...
If I were you I would resist calmag. If you can get to 150ppm using tap water you'll be better off. Not just saving money, but calmag acidifies your nutrient mix, adding to the need to pH your mix. The phUP has nutrients in it (like calmag gives you N you don't need). Before long you're dealing with salt buildup in the soil, fighting the Ca & Mg deficiencies with... calmag.... (it's a spiral like that).

What is the ratio of your Ca and Mg in your tap water? If it's 2:1 to 4:1 you're ok. You could make a concentrated solution of epsom salt and add sub-gram amounts to raise Mg if Ca is too high. It's 26ppm Mg in 1g/gal. (It may not matter since most of it comes from the soil, I believe. Dolomite?).

If you diluted your tap to 150, how many ppm Ca & Mg? Mine is only about 25ppm combined. The majority is sulfates and sodium. I'm thinking of not even using tap to get my 150ppm. Instead, adding a 1g of gypsum (61ppm Ca) and epsom to RO water. Both have sulfur, which takes it up to close to 150ppm (according to the math.).

Anyway... when I started using tap instead of calmag, I felt better about not pH'ing, so I stopped doing that. Life got simpler, the plants are thriving, I'm not using hydro products in soil, etc. Try it.
 
D

Dirty Harry

Well-Known Member
I always add some plain tap water to RO to increase PPMs...That should give the needed trace minerals that RO does not have...and it is cheaper than buying calmag.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
dscorpion said:
Hi all, I have very hard water also, over 600ppm going to 700ppms and it's full of Ca carbonate. During flowering I've had always yellowing issues what seems to be Mg def. I think spraying epsom salts every 3-4 days helps a little, but I'm planning to get a permament solution and get a ro system.
What I've read from the forums it's good to get some Ph buffer ~150ppm, is it better to get it from tap or using calmag product?

And another thing what's asked thousands of times:
Currently using biobizz nutes but is it ideal growing organic indoors with pots? I've been thinking mby to try out non organic soil nutes currently thinking about switching to Plant Magic, Canna or GH. Any recommendations+tips much appreciated. I'm looking to get a complete nutrient formula to use with ro and not have any deficiencies.

Currently I'm using no brand organic potting soil and I've started feeding after switch giving weekly 1ml/L bio grow and 1-3ml/L bio bloom increasing gradually watering once or twice a week depending how dry the soil feels. Plus 1ml/L top max.
Click to expand...
You could also use a formula meant for hard water. Those formulas substitute some of the calcium nitrate for nitric acid. The nitrates will substitute with the carbonates, and carbon dioxide will leave the solution.

I have ~500ppm tap as well and deal with it this way.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
Not just saving money, but calmag acidifies your nutrient mix, adding to the need to pH your mix. The phUP has nutrients in it (like calmag gives you N you don't need). Before long you're dealing with salt buildup in the soil, fighting the Ca & Mg deficiencies with... calmag.... (it's a spiral like that).
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Calcium nitrate + magnesium nitrate + iron edta doesn't really do much to acidify water as none of those salts have a low pKa.

Calcium nitrate has a pKa of 6.0.

Magnesium nitrate is considered a very weak base!!

"nutrients are acidic" is a RIU myth... Even if you made your reservoir into a 12M solution of calcium nitrate, it's pH would be very close to neutral.


az2000 said:
The phUP has nutrients in it (like calmag gives you N you don't need)
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You need N, and lots of it. You're foolish for trying to avoid calcium nitrate because it contains N. That's not a good reason to use one form of calcium over another. If you're in an inert medium (hydro), the choice is calcium nitrate, calcium nitrate, or calcium nitrate. If you're in soil, you don't use calcium nitrate. It has nothing to do with whether you want to add N or not! End of story, period. Just stop!
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
No amount of maxibloom is going to bring the OP's pH to 5.8. It would stay above 7. You need a strong acid to break a carbonate buffer.
 
Igotthe6

Igotthe6

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
No amount of maxibloom is going to bring the OP's pH to 5.8. It would stay above 7. You need a strong acid to break a carbonate buffer.
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If you would like I can film it for you. I have no reason to lie.My ph. starts@7.2 with a 50/50 mix of R.o& tap water. I add 1/2 t./gal maxi my ph reads 5.8. You can spout off a bunch of words and chemical names equasions,what ever. This is a fact with my water and any I have used maxi in.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Igotthe6 said:
If you would like I can film it for you. I have no reason to lie.My ph. starts@7.2 with a 50/50 mix of R.o& tap water. I add 1/2 t./gal maxi my ph reads 5.8. You can spout off a bunch of words and chemical names equasions,what ever. This is a fact with my water and any I have used maxi in.
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It doesn't matter what your pH starts at if your tap waters ppm is low... That number is meaningless when nothing is in the water! The OP's tap water is extremely high in carbonate...
 
dscorpion

dscorpion

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
If I were you I would resist calmag. If you can get to 150ppm using tap water you'll be better off. Not just saving money, but calmag acidifies your nutrient mix, adding to the need to pH your mix. The phUP has nutrients in it (like calmag gives you N you don't need). Before long you're dealing with salt buildup in the soil, fighting the Ca & Mg deficiencies with... calmag.... (it's a spiral like that).

What is the ratio of your Ca and Mg in your tap water? If it's 2:1 to 4:1 you're ok. You could make a concentrated solution of epsom salt and add sub-gram amounts to raise Mg if Ca is too high. It's 26ppm Mg in 1g/gal. (It may not matter since most of it comes from the soil, I believe. Dolomite?).

If you diluted your tap to 150, how many ppm Ca & Mg? Mine is only about 25ppm combined. The majority is sulfates and sodium. I'm thinking of not even using tap to get my 150ppm. Instead, adding a 1g of gypsum (61ppm Ca) and epsom to RO water. Both have sulfur, which takes it up to close to 150ppm (according to the math.).

Anyway... when I started using tap instead of calmag, I felt better about not pH'ing, so I stopped doing that. Life got simpler, the plants are thriving, I'm not using hydro products in soil, etc. Try it.
Click to expand...
To be honest don't know exactly what's the ratio is. I only know that our ground water is under strong limestone zone. Water heaters and other washing machines get residue and if not treated with water softener sooner or later they burn out easily.
I think I'll try out diluting 1:4 tap to ro ratio and see how it works. Thanks.


churchhaze said:
You could also use a formula meant for hard water. Those formulas substitute some of the calcium nitrate for nitric acid. The nitrates will substitute with the carbonates, and carbon dioxide will leave the solution.

I have ~500ppm tap as well and deal with it this way.
Click to expand...
Hmm good idea! Thanks for clearing up what's the difference between sw and hw nutes and how they work.
 
S

Smokenpassout

Well-Known Member
I can tell you what works for me. I use distilled water always and organic nutrients. I use advanced nutrients iguana grow and bloom. I used to just mix nutrients into distilled gallons of water without checking anything. Now I have some nice meters and adjust ph and ppm as well before serviing a good drink. I always add calmag plus with each watering, starting light and adding larger doses over time. Things stay green throughout and I never get yellowing anymore.
 
intenseneal

intenseneal

Well-Known Member
hotrodharley said:
And in soil? I never bother with pH in soil. I'll hear about it but who cares? And I have tapwater with a PPM of 800 mostly magnesium and calcium. I use a combination of RO and tap to keep my starting EC low but water with plain tapwater. The mag and calcium deficits are pretty rare here doing that. It keeps the cost per gallon down too. RO membranes are not cheap to replace.
Click to expand...
I started doing the same thing. My bottle of calmag sits unused and i have no issues. My tap water is nearly 500ppm. If you use only ro water u need to add back in the ca and mag that the ro membrane removes.
 
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